Breastfeeding is grinding me down and making me miserable

[chocciechip]

I don't have an option to not breastfeed: history of breast cancer in the family, DH asthmatic etc. I also fed DD until she was fifteen months and she is fantastically healthy so I feel DS deserves the same start.

Problem is, DS (9 weeks) has reflux and vomits a lot of every meal. He also needs to be taken on and off before I get a decent latch with every feed. I absolutely hate feeding in public at the best of times, but these two factors make it very hard to feed while I'm out. It's impossible to manage latches and vomiting under a cover, and impossible to be discreet without. If I ignore the latch in favour of discretion - which I do do - I end up with incredibly painful nipples for days. In fact, I don't think I've been totally pain free since he was born. I have found it increasingly stressful being out and dealing with that, to the point I now just can't face it.

DS also won't take a bottle of EBM - which DD did and it made the world of difference to the feeding experience. He feeds every 2 hours and we live in a rural location which gives me no window to get out and back in time for next feed.

So I am pretty much trapped at home, or I am struggling and intensely stressed while out. I literally stink with the smell of sweat I get so stressed by it.

Today DH and DD are at my nieces 21st, having a nice lunch at a restaurant with the whole family and then afternoon tea and cake afterwards. It's too cold to feed in the car, and I couldn't face being at a table with a large audience while dealing with the vomit, screaming, cover-up rigmarole. So this morning I watched DD wrapping the present as a 'pass the parcel' (in her mind no party is a party without pass the parcel) and know I'm going to be missing out on her at her sweetest, and I feel utterly fucking wretched - isolated, left out and alone. I can't stop crying. I feel I have no good options - either way I am screwed. I've been on my own all week and I'm on my own on the weekend too

To make matters worse, I deal with a screaming vomiting baby all week on my own and that is so hard, and it feels bloody crap to have to do it on the weekend too. I am dreading the next five days ahead before I get a chance to share the burden.

How do I get DS to take a bottle? If he doesn't then I have a pretty miserable lonely time ahead of me.

Sympathies, OP, when the feeds are tough everything is tough. You're doing great btw - his weight is holding up, and you did that, despite the major reflux and everything else. Whether you carry on BFing or find a way to persuade him onto bottles, you're doing a great job.

It might be worth ruling out the CMPI with an allergy test, as the symptoms vary a lot from one baby to the next. It sounds like at some point you'll want to transition to formula and if he's intolerant of it's major ingredient that's a problem you don't need down the line. GP may be willing to refer you for tests?

Bottle refusal is a total arse. Just been through it with 8 month old DD who was screaming at the mere sight of one. Then just when I was pulling my hair out and had bought every bottle ever made, she suddenly did a u-turn and took one with a smile. The first bottle we ever tried, too. No idea what changed her mind, the little toerag.

I feel for you on the isolation, missing a family event is a kick in the teeth, though it happens. Can someone hang out with you at home for a few days so that in between feeds you get some time with DD? Let someone else scrub the sicky clothes for a bit? Getting out is hard if BFing isn't easy, but someone to talk to at home might relieve the cabin fever.

Agree with Phoenixfrights - posterior tongue tie can cause the difficulties you are having and can be so subtle they are difficult to diagnose. They will make bottle feeding as tricky as b/f. Could you google the association of tongue tie practitioners and see if there's anyone nearby ?

I had similar issues with feeding in public with DC1, I'd keep persevering with the bottle though I know it's virtually impossible with 2 DCs to make time to express. I nearly cried pouring out the ebm and gave up with DC1 because I hated expressing & it wasn't like she ever drank any of the hard won milk. You'd have to be very disciplined though & keep trying at least once a day, preferably your DP to do it while you're not in the house & ideally 30 mins away so no one caves! 30 extra mins of hunger won't kill DC but might focus the mind a little. Good luck!

Oh & about poo covered clothes- keep a basin in utility room/bathroom & use the powdered oxi action stain remover. Vanish or aldi/lidl one. Leave clothes to soak for a couple of hours & wash as normal. Works way better than gels/sprays - even took out a poo stain on a short cycle that the vanish oxi gel + 60 deg wash failed to make a dent in. No scrubbing necessary :)

I don't have time to read the thread so sorry if I'm repeating what someone else has said...

Re. Bottles - you could try breastflow bottles and / or medela calma bottles as they're more like the breast. Try offering the bottle in exactly the same position as you would the breast. It start off breastfeeding then delatch and quickly try the bottle.

Re. Private breastfeeding - I know you said you live in a rural area, but it is always worth asking for a personal space to feed wherever you are. Virtually all museums, art galleries etc have private rooms for this purpose in London. Also I have always been accommodated when I've ask to use a quiet space in restaurants etc.

Hope things work out for you soon.

I am sorry I have not read your thread, have you checked yourself and DS for thrush? Thrush makes for a painful latch,mand hurts a lot afterwards as well. Symptoms include burning feeling whilst feeding and after for a considerable amount of time. Pinker than normal nipples, possibly with a white tip and with a shiny appearance. Baby will have a coated tongue. It can be hard to diagnose, but it's worth checking out. Good luck.

I'm on my phone and the app is crap for checking posts back so apologies for not identifying advice to name.

On thrush: I had this with DD for two months, bouncing back and forth between us, and it doesn't feel that bad. I remember it being acutely screamingly painful. In fact (it gets worse) I currently have a UTI I'm trying to shake without antibiotics to avoid that because I remember it being so awful, so I'm feeling pretty rubbish anyway. But my nipples do look pinker than normal directly after a feed, and there is a white colour which doesn't last - I assumed that it was was milk residue? Nipple colour returns to normal after a while. The pain I have is more like a deep Bruising.

A MW suggested (when I had DD) possibly that I had renauds? I'd forgotten that. Anyone know anything about that and breastfeeding?

Posterior tie - I'll ask HV tomorrow. Thanks.

Friends - gosh I'm going to sound pathetic - but no, none. All at work. My family are in Africa. All of them. DH is at work. I'm on my own except for one day a week when I meet with my old NCT group. I don't really have the 'luxury' of getting PND because even if I do, nothing will change support-wise and I'll still have to cope. But I do feel bloody low.

I'm shameless BUT DD is very fussy and my powerful let down causes spray everywhere - so I bought a breastfeeding apron and often ask if there's somewhere quiet to feed. Most people are happy to oblige. You can get a decent breastfeeding apron for under £10 on Ebay - one with a wire at tge top so you can look down and correct the latch.

I believe Renauds makes the nipples very sensitive to cold. I have another autoimmune thing and it was mentioned to me. I am very sensitive to cold too.

i haven't read through all replies so sorry if im being repetitive. if you're struggling with a latch have you considered using nipple shields? they saved my bfing 'career' and after couple of weeks of using them in public to feed and getting used to them i felt confident, started using them less and dd was used to texture so took to bottle a bit easier.

hope you've had a calm afternoon. xx

No idea about the bottle refusing as DS was FF from pretty early on but he has CMPI and sounds a lot like your DS. Slept upright on me during the day but slept 3 hours between feeds at night. Very sicky, runny bum but not under weight and stayed at 50th centile for his first year. He is on Omeprazole and although it helped it didn't fix it completely, he still has a lot of foods to avoid like tomato, carrots,apples,citrus.Could you try cutting out some of these to see if it helps? I have heard caffeine is a trigger as well. But the main thing that helped my DS is hypo allergenic formula with carobel thickener in, this stuff is amazing! I realise there are a lot of benefits to bf but if it is making you miserable and there are other options which might help with the reflux I would keep trying with the bottle and speak to a paediatrician about trying some Neocate or even if you could express and mix carobel in? Honestly more people should know about carobel for refluxers it is brilliant.

Re tongue tie. You need it ruled in or ruled out by somebody who really knows what they are doing.

There's a very high chance that your HV is not an expert.

A very high chance indeed

Sorry if I've missed someone else saying this but my DS refused a bottle till some one suggested getting the milk almost hot. I also waited till I knew he was definitely hungry-3-4 hrs since last feed and he gulped it down like his life depended on it.

Hi Choccie. I'm sorry you're having such a rough time.

I would really recommend seeking out help from an IBCLC lactation consultant. A certified lactatation consultant, preferably one very experienced with tongue tie.

An IBCLC should be able to help you with latching but also look at possible ties or CMPI symptoms. I know you've said your dS was checked for ties but I've heard of countless families with similar symptoms where ties were missed by the first/second/third doctor/HV/midwife etc. some ties are harder to spot.

They can be hard to spot.

www.lcgb.org/consultants_local.html

www.mybreastfedbaby.co.uk/what-is-an-ibclc.html

www.drghaheri.com/blog/2014/2/15/how-to-examine-a-baby-for-tongue-tie-or-lip-tie

Joy Anderson is an Australian (but provides skype consultations) IBCLC and dietician. She specialises in food allergies and intolerances.
www.dieteticsandlactation.com.au
I haven't used her personally but have heard recommended many times in a tongue tie support group.

Best of luck

Thanks for all the advice and support. I am seeing my HV today and will discuss with her. I see there is a lactation consultant (only one?) in drivable distance from me so will follow that up too. Thanks.

If you nipples are changing colour pink, white, pink then look up vasospasm - it can be brought on by nipple damage I think?

Blanched nipples ( are they misshapen too, like the end of a lipstick?) after feeding can be associated with tongue tie.

Unless s/he is very very unusual then sorry to say the HV will not give evidence-based or correct advice on posterior tongue tie.

Is there any clicking while feeding?

The other clue would be a high narrow palate rather than a nice smooth arched shape. Have a look next time your baby is howling.

How did you get on with hv today chocciechip?

Our HV checked DS for tongue tie and said it was fine. She seems very knowledgeable and very involved in BF in the area: she runs the local support group.

And I have nipple thrush ... I had thought not because it was twenty thousand times more painful with DD. HV said I'd probably previously had thrush in my breast ducts, which is worse. Now it's in my nipples, which is why they're so sore. I am dreading trying to get gel in DSs mouth as well as the Omazrapole!

And she thinks I'm heading towards PND (I haven't told DH). She Suggested I go speak to a GP. I am new to the area and have met two out of the three GPs at the practice and wouldn't open up to either so I'm not keen.

I need to try tackle the thrush. I feel very very tired by it all. I have a UTI and am meant to take antibiotics but haven't, to avoid thrush. I've been trying homeopathic measures instead but can feel I still have it. Does anyone know if doing so will make the thrush even worse?

... On our HV, she's the first person outside the hospital (which drives BF'ing info for the area) to fully know how to treat ductal thrush. When I realised I needed to take antibiotics I tried to persuade the GP to treat me and DS for thrush pre-emptively and she was clueless about nipple or ductal thrush. That seems to be the norm here, so I was reassured our HV was informed on it.

Phoenix - no clicking or blanching. I've had 'lipsticked' nipples only after what I know was a bad latch. I'll have a good look next tine he cries at his palate. Mostly my nipples are a normal shape, but a bright rosy pink after a feed. It was the colour mentioned by someone yesterday that alerted me to possibility of nipple thrush.

Just to add, I also find my aureola painful. DS takes in big mouthfuls when feeding but it sometimes feels as if he's chewing on my breast and the resultant pain feels like a welt in the aureola . I've been controlling this a bit by switching positions. I didn't have this with DD at all. I even tried checking once to see if he had teeth!

Hmm now the reason I wondered about tongue tie and was dismissive of HV's likely knowledge was that DS's posterior tie was missed by 4 MWs, the hospital's BF co-ordinator, 3 trained BF supporters and 3HVs. This experience is not atypical from conversations on here.

Honestly, it really does sound like posterior tie needs to be ruled out. The chomping/ biting is classic. I had this and the IBCLC said it was something to do with the tongue not extending over the lower gum when feeding. Tongue impedes bite reflex ..no tongue there, no impeding going on! Or something like that ...

I would make that appointment with the solitary IBCLC in your area.

Again, I agree with Phoenix .

If you google association of T Tie practitioners you wi hopefully find someone to assess not too far away.

Yes, like phoenix DD's tongue tie was missed by all the hospital midwives,several HVs, a couple of breastfeeding supporters, and even the lactation consultant the first time she looked. Well worth an expert checking for a posterior tie.