Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

"it is important that, in preparation for and during breastfeeding, you eat a healthy, balanced diet"

209 replies

harpsichordcarrier · 04/10/2006 20:26

or so it says on the "important information" on some HCP stuff Cow and Gate sent me to give out to parents.
but that's VERY misleading isn't it? it might imply that if you haven't eaten a healthy diet during pregnancy, you shouldn't bf? that formula would be better alternative?
it just seems a weird thing to have on a formula notice.
I am thinking of complaining - what do you think?

OP posts:
yellowrose · 06/10/2006 15:37

God, tiktok, I am relieved that c-section women in the US ARE allowed to bf their babies. I have heard some awful stuff about hospitals (I gave birth in a birth centre here in London), but this one was one of the worst I have heard !

I had a friend who was told to give their baby formula at age 5 months, by a "well-respected" paeditrician in Houston. It turned out his reasons for introducing formula were total rubbish, so sounds like the US is as bad as here !

MKG · 06/10/2006 15:59

Yellowrose
I'm not a professional so eveything I have are personal experiences and generalizations

No hospital is the same, and each has it's own regulations about bfing after c-sections. The only way that they will soley let you bf is if you specifically tell them. A lot of hospitals do fear that the drugs from the C-section can cross into the baby. That did happen to a friend of mine. Her mom said that she could tell that something was off. So many hospital wait 24 hours to let the drugs clear your system. Here most woman are doped up after a C-section. My sil doesn't even remember the day her ds was born. It's all a haze.

Most babies don't room in unless you specifically ask. In fact they recommend that babies are with moms in the day and in the nursery at night so that mom can rest and not have to get up.

Everyone I know has said that nurses bullied them into doing things. That learning how to bf in the hospital was a nightmare. When they got home they were already turned off to it myself included. It wasn't presented to us as a wonderful experience (that you hear by word of mouth and in books) for most of us it's presented as if you can't do this your baby won't eat and will die. The lactation consultants say to call them if you need them, but when someone tells you something like that, your not encouraged to call them.

MKG · 06/10/2006 16:01

Tik tok

I never said the hospital service was great, the free stuff was the only thing that made the hospital worth it. I know the US has a medical system that has a lot left to be desired. If you don't fight you don't get what you want.

yellowrose · 06/10/2006 16:04

MKG - I am really really sorry to hear this stuff. It sounds all rather awful and primitive, not unlike the health service we have here in the UK. I hope that you have a better experience with future babies

MKG · 06/10/2006 16:06

It's not the anestesia used in surgery that they worry about. It's an epidural. It's that some hospitals (not all) use morphine and other pain killer after the surgery.

Cappuccino · 06/10/2006 16:11

motherinferior fruit shoots and salt and vinegar crisps?

bugger. didnt do that.

would Galaxy and San Miguel be a good substitute? dd2 seems to have thrived on it

MKG · 06/10/2006 16:13

Yellow rose,
I'm not sure but don't you have universal healthcare? Here everything is private insurance companies and HMO's. Most insurance companies don't pay for VBACS because it costs more to have a anestisiaologist on call (yeah I can't spell, pregnant brain and all) than it would to have a C-section. Now I can't go back to the midwife practice I was using (CNM in my state have to be associated with an ob office) because they don't take the new insurance I have.

I would give anything to choose the practice, and the hospital I want. You go with the practice that your insurance covers and you go to the hospital the practice is associated with. We don't have a lot of choices here.

tiktok · 06/10/2006 16:23

MKG, I wasn't getting at you when I said the 'free' thing was sad....I was just observing what you observed, that things are not great.

Everything you say makes me see that there was nothing in your own body that let you down, there was nothing in you that made you unable to breastfeed.....the fact you didn't manage it was not your fault, but the fault of the system you gave birth in.

I hope things are better next time and you will have the experience you deserve

loopybear · 06/10/2006 16:55

I have to say I've only dipped into a few postings on this thread. I do think that the low rate of BF in this country is down to the lack of support for mothers to BF. I was desparate to breastfeed in the middle of the night I called my local birth centre in desparation and there answer was for DH to go and pick up formula from them and they'd send midwife out in the morning, who basically said mix feed for a couple of days - complete disaster at no point did they suggest seeing BF counsellor (I was too exhausted to remember). I went to my new Mum's group to find 15 other women who had want to BF and ended up swopping to FF on MW/ HV advice!!! I do think it's so sad that BF is under supported (Next time I'll be on here asap so I can have a good experience)

MKG · 06/10/2006 16:57

Tik tok,

I didn't think you were getting at me

But I can see how it might be interpreted like that.
Thanks for your support, I've read what you say on other threads and I think you have great advice for people and your on the money with most of it. I hope you're around in late May and early June when this next one pops out. By the way what do you do that have so much knowledge?

Pruhoohooohoooooni · 06/10/2006 17:02

It's frightening when we start hearing about b/f in terms of "regulations" and "being allowed to..."

MKG I know this isn't the thread but your experience sounds very similar to mine: v sleepy, jaundiced (?) baby, two weeks early...it's a nightmare, isn't it? I still haven't found out what I ought to have done to wake that child up and make him feed!!

bluejelly · 06/10/2006 17:28

It's been said before, but just wanna say it again.
Tik tok you're a hero ( heroine?)
You know so much
You express it such an eloquent and sensitive way.
Every time I read your posts I learn something new about bfeeding-- and I bf my dd for 2 years!

tiktok · 06/10/2006 17:53

bluejelly

MKG, I am a breastfeeding counsellor with NCT and I have been around the block a few times and then some

MKG · 06/10/2006 17:57

Forgive my American self, but what is NCT?

tiktok · 06/10/2006 18:05

National Childbirth Trust, parenting charity, runs antenatal classes, trains breastfeeding counsellors - see \link{http://www,nct.org.uk \here}

A lot of women have contact with NCT via the groups who meet socially, sometimes called 'Bumps and Babies' or similar.

These groups, naturally enough, take on the local characteristics of wherever they happen to be.

That's why you'll see people say stuff like 'my NCT group is full of yummy mummies with nannies and four wheel drives' and someone else will say 'oh, I hate NCT, they're all hippies with hairy legs and flowered skirts' .

In fact, NCT is very varied, and if people find one group is not for them, and are not prepared to look beyond the four wheel drive or the hairy legs to the person beneath, then they can always join another one!

tiktok · 06/10/2006 18:06

Drat.
I mean here

Wordsmith · 06/10/2006 18:14

Tiktok I think you are a hero as well and agree that poor breatfeeding rates are due to lack of support, ie not enough positive support. This is not a criticism of the sterling work done by you and your colleagues. I believe new mums get mixed messages from HVs and doctors, and have decided before they give birth how they are going to feed (mainly influenced by peer groups/antenatal carers, if any). Support in hospital is the key. I don't believe messages on packs of formula make any difference at all.

Yellowrose the report about intelligence/breatfeeding is here . Basically it says that intelligence is due mainly to the mother's intelligence and social status. As more 'intelligent' women breastfeed, therefore more intelligent babies are breastfed. Breastmilk per se has no effect on intelligence.

Lio · 06/10/2006 18:21

Hi Harpsi, just a quickie to fawn and say how ace your seasonal name is, and also that although you know a lot more about this than I do I think you do have a case and if you want someone to help with writing a letter then dh and I could do that between us.

FWIW I think you are perfectly capable of doing it on your own, but wanted to offer moral support and the only practical thing I can offer is that dh is good with words and I am good at grammar.

tiktok · 06/10/2006 18:23

Wordsmith, thanks for the hero comp!!

But I need to hear you say it: that ethical marketing is important.

You're wrong about the effect of marketing. Pick on one tiny part of it - the wording on the pack - and it might be hard to say 'this must be changed' . But packaging certainly is important - or else why would manufacturers develop consistent, appealing branding (the colour, the lettering, the pictures) and eye-catching 'shelf-talkers' and so on? It costs money to do all this sorta stuff.

All the leaflets, the packaging, the baby clubs (ack!), the helplines (double ack!) , the competitions for Midwife of the Year (yes, SMA is sponsoring this one - isn't it sickening?), the sneaky 'advertorials' in up-market newspapers, the sneaky ads for follow-on (branded identically to first milks) in magazines, the free lunches for health professionals, the baby massage classes with 'free' t shirts with the name of a milk on it for your baby....the whole shebang is just unethical.

If it didn't undermine breastfeeding and increase formula sales, they would save their money and put everything into a plain brown paper pack with the instructions on it and leave it at that.

Now I have to go 'cos Friday night is pizza night (I live such a high life.....;) )

Wordsmith · 06/10/2006 18:48

Tiktok: I am a big fan of ethical marketing! Is that OK now?

The story about intelligence/bfing is also on the Mumsnet home page ion case you don't trust the Grauniad.

yellowrose · 06/10/2006 18:58

wordsmith - thanks for the reference. It may be the biggest study, but it isn't the only one.

It certainly seems to contradict most other very reputable studies of bf and intelligence. But I am personally not convinced by it. Studies have been done (I have read some of the Scandinavian stuff) on adult IQ levels comparing those that were bf with those that were not and apparantly the IQ benefits are still recognisable in adults, not just babies and children.

To be honest, I think most women who choose to bf do so because of the health advantages that a bf baby has. The IQ stuff is just the icing on the cake

yellowrose · 06/10/2006 19:01

Thanks wordsmith, I am very much an armchair, pinko socialist and avid Guardian reader. I believe the Guardian, but NOT the study it is reporting on

yellowrose · 06/10/2006 19:05

Ethical marketing is very important, but it don't exist ! Not as long as the multi-billion dollar corps. like Nestle can milk us (excuse pun) for whatever it is they sell, be it Kit Kats or formula.

yellowrose · 06/10/2006 19:11

MKG - I guess the NCt doesn't exist in the US as it is bRitish. However, if you ever feel like you would like to give bf another go with your new baby, please please come back here for support. I also highly recommend the La Leche League (first est. in the US in the 50's) who have a global reach. If you look up their website, have a look atthis you can put in the State you live and it gives you their local contact details.

Judy1234 · 06/10/2006 19:58

Do complain. It might well breach a rule. May be complain to the ASA too. Send a copy to Baby Milk Action. I liked this letter in The Times this week :

Bottle or breast for babies?
Sir, Breast-feeding (times 2, Sept 29) is honed by evolution to be the healthiest way to nurture the human baby, and it is now more than three years since the Department of Health?s policy followed World Health Organisation research, showing that babies are healthiest fed on milk alone for the first six months of life.

The lack of breast-feeding in the face of a barrage of formula advertising is causing the deaths of 1.5 million babies worldwide.

A woman is no more likely to be physically unable to breast-feed than she is to be physically unable to see or hear. Society, however, can make her unable to breast-feed. This is done by undermining her confidence with misleading information, and treating breast-feeding as permissible only in private.

All the evidence shows that mothers want to breast-feed. More than three quarters of women in the UK start breast-feeding their babies, and most would like to breast-feed for longer than they do. It is elements of our society, particularly those who profit from infant formula, bottles and teats, who are the villains ? they make it harder for mothers to do what their hearts tell them.

BELINDA PHIPPS
Chief Executive
National Childbirth Trust
London W3