"it is important that, in preparation for and during breastfeeding, you eat a healthy, balanced diet"

[harpsichordcarrier]

or so it says on the "important information" on some HCP stuff Cow and Gate sent me to give out to parents.
but that's VERY misleading isn't it? it might imply that if you haven't eaten a healthy diet during pregnancy, you shouldn't bf? that formula would be better alternative?
it just seems a weird thing to have on a formula notice.
I am thinking of complaining - what do you think?

I'm sure the combined brains of mn can get something done here hc.

This sort of thing is important because it's subtle and insidious. If they were going around saying "formula is better than bfeeding" it would be easy to argue. But look how people on this thread have missed the point, because on the surface it seems like perfectly sensible advice. That's why it's potentially so harmful.

Really, I think formula should be a medical product, ie a very good, safe, lifesaving method of feeding when breastfeeding is impossible for whatever reason.

Not a lifestyle brand decision like what trainers to wear.

So, Welliemum, you think formula should only be available on prescription, or something like that?

Actually, I agree totally with Tiktok's post. They are trying to sell more formula, that is their job. They use various methods to do so. Fair enough.

But, present company excepted obviously, the medical and breastfeeding 'establishment' must be doing a woeful job of promoting bfing if it cannot stand up against the 'underhand tactics' of the formula manufacturers, don't you think? Shouldn't more effort be put into promoting it rather than slagging off the opposition?

aaahh, surely the point is - why should formula makers say ANYTHING about breastfeeding, beyond the legal requirement to state that breast is best on tin. And in this case the information is just wrong - there is no need to prepare for breastfeeding. So they can be criticised for passing on wrong information. p.s. i do give formula.

"the opposition"???
good grief
I am sure noone sees it in those terms. I certainly don't.
something which has such a significant effect on babies health and on women's postnatal experience is not a "game". it's bloody serious.

Formula companies have multimillion pound advertising budgets and loads of people working out slick ad campaigns to make women think that formula is near as dammit identical to breastmilk and there's no need to bother one's pretty little head with leaky breasts and the like.

If the NHS/bfeeding charities had anything like the money to put into promoting breastfeeding and the formula manufacturers had their budgets, barely anyone would formula feed, I think.

Wordsmith, there have been numerous threads on MN over the 2 yrs or so I've been on here detailing the fact that the people who should be promoting breastfeeding in this country are doing a woeful job of it. Absolutely tragic. Between indifference and lack of willingness to devote resources on one side and a certain amount of hyperbole on the other, they are doing a shit job. Broadly. And with some exceptions of course.

(Am I allowed to post on feeding threads any more ? Don't know. But yes I think the wording is dodge and should be queried. More in a sort of "You fuckers we know your game" way than "What might you be up to?")

Wordsmith, is this the same 'medical establishment' that manage to totally f* up so many mothers' experience of breastfeedinvg?

Who think promotion of bf is sticking up a few posters on the wall of the maternity unit, shoving a screaming baby's head onto a tearful mother's breast and telling mothers with bleeding, cracked nippled that 'you must be doing it wrong, then' and leaving them to it? Or who tell them they cannot have treatment for pnd until they stop bf? Or who advise formula (it's almost always Aptimil for middle class mothers) if there is any doubt about supply, or weaning if the weight falters?

Is it that medical establishment you're referring to?

They're doing the formula manufacturers job for them, as far as I can tell.

The 'breastfeeding establishment'? Now - are they perhaps the few hundred volunteer counsellors from the charities, who have no money and limited time? Who promote breastfeeding by actually being there for the mothers who need them, within their limited capabilities and woman power?

I wonder what they (the 'breastfeeding establishment') could do with the marketing money at present spent by the formula manufacturers on telling mothers a load of rubbish about 'preparation'.

And you post to mumsnet saying, more or less, that these 'establishments' must be weak and should simply buck their ideas up and forget about underhand marketing tactics.

Talk about blaming the victim.

It's a shame

Oooh, tiktok, the good guys manage some stuff, sometimes. In my (underfunded, often poor) borough, there is a breastfeeding project that automatically gets the details of every first-time mum in the borough. They automatically get support in the first days. Second-time mums can self-refer (if i remember correctly). People who live in our borough but have their babies outside it can self-refer.

My BFC mate says it's a good project, anyway.

Pruni, you do you think should be promoting bf? (serious Q btw) -
imo everyone has a part to play in supporting bf, but then again I am..... oh no, I am not mean enough to say it
the support for bf in this country is woeful, yes.
but that fact is entirly related to the kind of tactics used by formula companies.
the problems of underfunding and a prevailing anti bf culture are made worse by the tactics of formula companies. i.e. it is part of the same trend. it is decidedly NOT a competition, or a battle.
of course it doesn't help when people who try and support bf are called nazis and militants and told to get a life but heyho....

harpsi's top fact:

UK formula manufacturers spend £20 per baby promoting formula
the UK govt spends 14p per baby.
that's not a battle. that's a whitewash. It is a bloody miracle anyone bfs, actually

Tiktok once again I agree with you. No I was referring to the HVs, doctors, ans antenatal classes that say 'breast is best' and then do little to explain why or how you should go about doing it. Not to the volunteer orgs who do a great job on very little money.

All I am trying to point out in my rather clumsy way is that it is no good adopting confrontational tactics like insisting shelves are cleared and complaining about wording on packaging and the like. Formula is a legitimate choice for many mums even if they don't need it - ie if they just decide they want to breastfeed. The task is to persuade more to breastfeed, not demonise those who formula feed. And before you say that formula feeders aren't being 'got at' by threads like this - well I'm sure you don't intend to, but the tone is all 'formula bad, breast good', which like it or not does impact on the users! Do you really want to end up in a situation where formula is some dodgy under the counter purchase or only available on prescription?

sorry, I mean if they decide they want to bottle feed, of course. Must preview

NQC, I know there are good projects going on.

I can also bet my bottom dollar they are under-funded, precarious, and risk being curtailed when their 'project' money runs out - many are not supported by PCTs at all, or only for a few years. They will also rely on goodwill and hard work and enthusiasm - over and above what anyone is are paid for.

I have seen breastfeeding projects come and go like a merry go round. The very few that last for years still come under threat of closure.

They are certainly not strong enough, either individually or collectively, to earn Wordsmith's tag of 'establishment'.

Wordsmith, how on earth is asking for ethical marketing the equivalent of demonising people who want to formula feed?

HC, yes, everyone. Impossible atm to achieve that, so I'd be happy if the healthcare profs were not nincompoops about the subject. Since they are the first people who advise you about your new baby.
As you rightly point out, money is the issue, isn't it? Throw money at it and society will follow.

Wordsmith, I think you need to try and see the broader picture.
the codes of practice on ethical marketing of formula (which I am talking about here) are designed to answer the international issue of formula promotion.
the reasoning behind those international codes of practice are to do with creating informed choice and changing the prevailing anti bf culture and of course health promotion.
the same people who are promoting bf and working with women are very very often working in this respect too (breastfeeding awareness week, NEstle boycott). they are the same people, doing the same thing, with the same aim.
It isn't a "breast v formula" battle. that is simplistic and ridiculous and the debate has moved on about 10000 leagues from that point.

yes, it is to do with money, you're right.
and since I don't have a big fat pile of wonga to spend on promoting bf we have to do what we can.
which includes putting obstacles in the way of formula manufacturers who want to undermine women's ability to bf to make more money.
which is about as unethical as it gets, imho

Would love to see letter you write.
Will you be using intimidating lawyerish tone?

I have only one tone, and that is it

I don't think that formula companies want to undermine women's ability to bf. My goodness if a woman can bf why would she buy formula when breastmilk is free. If I could have breastfed I would have, it sure would have saved me about $100 a month for 12 months. Unfortunately, ds was a lousy nurser. He would get the breast in his mouth and just fall asleep. When he did stay awake I would try to nurse him (sometimes for three hours at one sitting) only to give him 1/2 an ounce of formula and that was enough. I thank God for formula because it saved my sanity. I didn't plan on formula feeding, but that's how it worked out. If there wasn't any formula, I don't know what I would have done.

I don't think that formula companies want to undermine women's ability to bf. My goodness if a woman can bf why would she buy formula when breastmilk is free. If I could have breastfed I would have, it sure would have saved me about $100 a month for 12 months. Unfortunately, ds was a lousy nurser. He would get the breast in his mouth and just fall asleep. When he did stay awake I would try to nurse him (sometimes for three hours at one sitting) only to give him 1/2 an ounce of formula and that was enough. I thank God for formula because it saved my sanity. I didn't plan on formula feeding, but that's how it worked out. If there wasn't any formula, I don't know what I would have done.

tiktok, Harpsicordlady and Hunker; ive decided i like you ladies very much. you so eloquently say what i want to. and thank goodness theres people in the world like you. really. thank you for being you

Of course they want to undermine women's ability to breastfeed! If they didn't manage that, they wouldn't make a profit. It's like saying, 'Oh, I'm sure the manufacturers of Pepsi don't want to take any of Coca-Cola's market share.'
Look, you wanted to do the best for your baby and I'm sure your baby is fantastic and fine and great, but falling asleep on the breast is normal. Most babies do it. It's OK. You chose to give formula at that point and if that was right for you, great. Other people in your situation might have not been so happy with the outcome and would have wanted to find a way to persevere with breastfeeding. The problem is, formula is always presented as the answer to any feeding problem under the sun, yet they still want to create more totally false 'problems' (eg not 'preparing' for breastfeeding in the correct manner) which don't actually exist.

seconded, nappies!

And far, far, for more women can breastfeed than do. That's where the formula companies step in.