Night Feeders Part 5. Calling all women who find themselves feeding when they'd rather be sleeping!!

[Writerwannabe83]

This is a thread for anyone who wants support when things seem tough - especially for the women whose babies don't like sleep!!

We'll do the usual introductions:

I'm a first time mom to my 6 month old, EBF son. It's been a rocky few months, lots of ups and downs but we've finally reached a point where he's asleep by 7.30pm and only waking once during the night.

He very rarely naps in the day - and when he does it's only when he's in the car or his pushchair. It's very frustrating!!

And the last little thing about us is that we have just started the weaning journey - it's fun but messy!!

Attempting first nap of the day for the 2nd time. I'm not really sure why I bother to be honest.

I've just had a break down - I'm so sick of him refusing to sleep and sick of screaming everytime he goes in his cot. I've had enough. I've had to tell DH to come and take I'm off me because I'm at breaking point.

I can DS crying downstairs because he's absolutely exhausted. I just don't get it.

It's been almost 1.5 hours since I started trying to get him to have a nap and I've seriously just had enough.

Sorry for all the typos - I'm just angry and stressed out!

Hi! I have been following your night feeders thread for ages but have never posted. However, after reading of the hard time you are having Writer I felt compelled to share my experiences and hope it may help.
Both my babies (DD 3.5 yrs and DS 8 months) have/had silent reflux (medicated with omeprazole) which is triggered by dairy, both from me consuming it whilst breastfeeding and them eating it. I was having similar problems to you; sleep refusal, regular wake ups, cot rejection, never wanting to lay down, cue me at the end of my tether (and also fussy feeding, gas/windy and upset tummy, I'm not sure if your DS is also experiencing these symptoms) which all improved significantly once I eliminated dairy.
Anyway, I might be totally off the mark but just thought I'd put it out there as something to consider

writer I really, really feel for you honey it must be so draining for you. Even though we had a shite night, at least I know DD will nap in the day without too much bother. How/what methods are you using to try and get him to sleep? What I used to do with DD1 who was a nightmare was take her out for a drive, wait until she fell asleep and then pull over, lock the doors and doze myself Not ideal, but at least we both got some rest.

DD2 on the other hand, seems to think she is a newborn again and was awake countless times in the night and wouldn't go back off. She was awake from 10:50 - 12.40, then she slept until 4, then I had to keep resettling her until she slept for about another hour until 6am. She wasn't really hungry to be honest and wasn't even really crying, she was just shouting and making herself heard and therefore not much sleep for me... We were then up for the day at 6am Don't know if it was teeth, developmental stuff or what but I am shattered today.

OMG had a massive scare. DD did a poo on her changing mat and it was watery with lots of seediness in it - I immediately thought "she's ill". There were the usual 'curds', it was yellow as usual but part of it was watery.

DH said he was positive he'd read that EBF babies could have very watery poos and provided the quantity (number/volume), colour (not green/brown), smell, seediness and lack of blood/mucus was healthy it was OK.

So I double checked on BFing sites and books, most did say this (e.g. www.mother-2-mother.com/normal.htm ) please tell me I'm not being lax by thinking she's OK now? Several sites/books (not quack ones) specifically said you might think it's the runs but it isn't if there are curds even if there's a water mark (or in my case yellow water dribbling!) around the curdy part.

In every other regard she is fine: sleeping, looking around when not sleeping, eating fine, pink, not too hot, no distress.

Writer so sorry to hear about your DS. Sounds so frustrating.

Hi natty - thank you for your message. You are clearly a woman who knows her stuff as Areon is on treatment for reflux (ranitidine) but because of a screw up regarding his prescription he hasn't had any for 5 days and I can't get anymore until tomorrow afternoon I'm sure it's because of this that he's so fractious and upset which makes he feel even more guilty for getting angry It's just hard dealing with it. It's made me and DH have an argument too because of how stressed I am - I'm taking it out on him

curly - my techniques this morning were as following:

10.30am - Arron is showing signs of tiredness so I take him to a dark room, put him in his sleep suit and try and feed him to sleep. He's really unsettled at the breast, squirming, trusting his head and generally not feeding so I assumed it was his teeth so gave him some Nurofen and allowed him some time to let it take affect.

11.00 - try and feed Arron again but he's having none of it. I wind him, pick him up and cuddle him, rock him whilst humming his favourite lullaby but he just cries and cries.

11.30 - try and feed him again to calm him but he doesn't want to know. I decide to just put him in his cot and see what happens and unsurprisingly he starts crying straight away. I pick him up, the crying stops, I kiss him and rock him a little before putting him back down and the crying starts again. I did this a few more times then I'm ashamed to say that because I felt so stressed I walked out and left him to cry I can't believe I did it I went back to him within two minutes and he was absolutely distraught, tsars were streaming down his face and he'd been sick everywhere
I picked him up for kisses and cuddles and realise the whole exercise is pointless and call DH to take DS downstairs whilst I try not to cry with frustration.

12.45 - I decide to try and feed Arron again as by this time he is absolutely shattered and within 5 minutes of bring at the breast he fell asleep!! Woke up again less than 30 minutes later though

Me and DH then had to listen to Arron moan, cry and grizzle due to being so tired for over an hour before I decided enough was enough and I would just take him out in the car - for my sake as well as his!!

He slept within 10 minutes of setting off and he's still asleep now : 1hr and 20minutes. I'm actually sat on the drive with the radio on and the engine running because I know that the minute I turn the car off Arron will instantly wake up It's just draining.

I would love to be able to say he is like this because he hasn't had his anti reflux meds for 5 days but he's like this with his naps every single day, has been for months

As soon as Arron wakes up I'm going to ring DH and apologise for bring narky with him. I just get so would up by it all and he's the only person that I can take it out on

squizita you're not being lax. You know you're not being lax. You're being anxious. I hope I'm not being rude because you've been so open about your health anxiety, but that's exactly how you've said in pregnancy before your anxiety manifests itself. You are still counting every poo and wee nappy, that isn't lax. Tell me to fuck off if I'm out of line, because if counting them helps you then keep doing it, but if you are finding one poop 'a massive scare' then maybe weaning yourself off being dependant on every nappy night help? We recorded them for 4 days when we had to feed up DS, and when he's had his extra weighs and he was putting on weight again my DH asked the midwife how long we should keep recording nappies and she said 'oh stop that now, you'd go mad!' And told us to look at how he was doing. It sounds like you've done wonderfully well at establishing feeding, you say that DD is gaining and that all the health professionals are happy, maybe it's time now she's a few weeks old to look more at the child and not the nappy iyswim? So if she seems fine and is eating and acting the same way, then one slightly watery pop isn't a massive scare, you can see what the next one is like etc? I know that BF is tricky as you can't see what goes in, but I don't think a baby will hide if they are ill and you'd see other signs. DS did a random green poo the other day but as he was chugging down milk and chilled out I didn't worry, and the next one was yellow again. It's so difficult to walk the line between being alert to all possibilities but also not spending your life assuming the worst. You sound like you really care a lot for her. You couldn't be lax if you tried.

Writer-the way you are feeling brings back loads of memories of how I felt when DD was little. I was exhausted and sleep deprived and often (ashamedly) angry at my little baby but mainly just confused, how could she not be tired, why was she fighting sleep when she was clearly tired, etc. I felt like I couldn't read my baby like everyone else talks about.
Don't be too hard on yourself, dealing with babies with silent reflux is so, so hard, and a completely different ball game.
I think I haven't felt in as much despair this time with DS as I had some idea of what to expect if he did have reflux as well. Talking to other reflux mums also helps. I hope that things get better once you get his medication back on track.

Thanks Redling ... DH said the same and I know I'm being quite anxious. :) I'm going to have to get the hair band back on the wrist (twang it to remind me to trust NHS/Mumsnet/Kellymom advice not overthink). I think I'm getting fussed because I have my biopsy in a month.

She's just fed 4 times in an hour and presented me with a normal nappy. She's fine!

I've decided to stop counting the nappies and just look more generally at pinkness, contentedness and so on. She's sitting in her little 'clevamama positioner' (we only use it for naps, stupid thing suggested night use on the box then inside 'do not use for night sleep' ... ah pregnant shopping naivity! ) playing a game where DH claps his hands and she waves her little fists at him and goes 'eh eh eh' (sounds angry but they are little fists of happy LOL). Clearly not ill! :)

I'm glad she's fine :) oh God the 'Eh eh eh!' DS has just stopped doing that all the time, just some of the time! He has more noises now he's two months old! DH is just putting Nat in his cot for the first time alone! I've got the monitor attached to me. It's quite scary but it was time. He can't sleep in the living room with us forever as much as I want him too! Will be up every 15 mins to stare at him I think!

Thanks natty - I know it's more difficult for him to nap or sleep well because of the acidity pains so I shouldn't really 'lose it' like I do, but it's just so frustrating

I'm getting his medicine first thing in the morning and hopefully after a few days of it bring in his system things should settle down. It just upsets me to see him so tired and just wish I could do something for him to make sleep more comfortable. Thank you for your kind words and support

Squizita - please please please don't panic!! Both my dd's had/have this and it is TOTALLY normal for ebf babies. When they poo in nappies, the liquid is immediately absorbed and all you see is the seedy/curdy bits. When they then manage to cover you/ the table/ something else with a squirty poo, you see all the liquid and it's so scary! Honesty though, it's so normal but not many people realise how liquid ebf babies poos are. They're so different to ff or mix fed babies. Plus the poo is normally contained in nappies and you don't always see them poop! Dd1 had poos like this for ages and even the midwives wern't sure at first but she tracked along the 91st centile for nearly a year and is now a healthy nothing wrong with her 2 year old! Dd2 is following suit and has theost liquid curdy poops which other people think is crazy but that's just their little boddies and goes to show how well they can absorb the goodness from bf. Please don't panic.

Thanks. :)

She hasn't pooed since about 4 or 5pm so now I'm dreading the next one being HUGE. She's done this before... skip a poop then do a double!

Writer BIG HUGS . Your doing amazing and allowed a melt down every now and then especially dealing with the reflux.

Squizita - I agree totally normal and we don't normally see the poos so when they go everywhere (all over me yester day) then it is scarey, trust your instinct and you know your baby believe in that! The anxiousness will subside I promise it has for me, but everyday we will face a new challenges just take each day as it comes x

Writer BIG HUGS . Your doing amazing and allowed a melt down every now and then especially dealing with the reflux.

Squizita - I agree totally normal and we don't normally see the poos so when they go everywhere (all over me yester day) then it is scarey, trust your instinct and you know your baby believe in that! The anxiousness will subside I promise it has for me, but everyday we will face a new challenges just take each day as it comes x

Oh writer I'm sorry it's so frustrating sometimes when they fight what is good for them

Bedtime feed now and DS is having both sides the piglet!!

He's got 3 appts tomorrow at Birmingham childrens hospital, hoping it all goes ok, I know it'll be a long day send us positive vibes for the best outcome please ladies (he has dilated renal pelvis, tomorrow he is being scanned, more tubes up his willy and various other tests, best case scenario is that he require a Stent to widen the opening in the tube that connects his one kidney to his bladder, worst case is if his kidney function test shows the one bad kidney is hardly functioning at all then he will need that kidney removing).

MiL is coming to our to have DS1 Hunter, he's really close to my parents but not so much with MiL!! Hope he is ok all day!!

I used to work at Birmingham Children's Hospital!! What ward are you going to??

Arron has just had his bedtime feed and has fallen asleep in my arms. We are staying at my dad's house again tonight so have the travel cot up but I'm tempted to keep him with me. It's a long way down to place him in the travel cot and I'm sure my wobbly balancing movements will wake him if I attempt it

Cannot- good luck for tomorrow. Hope you get the best possible result and as little intervention as possible is needed

Writer really feeling for you sounds so rough. For the record, DD1 never slept in a cot at that age, only in the sling or on me. You know what I did... I let her sleep on me and I read a lot of novels. Like, hundreds. Gina ford wouldn't approve but I'm clearly better read than her now so ...
Not saying it's a solution for you but PLEASE don't feel like a failure, baby sleep can be such hard work. I felt better once I accepted things the way they were and trusted then to change in time (which they did - I didn't create any bad habits - DD1 was/is mostly a great sleeper- currently 12 uninterrupted hours overnight and a 2 hour nap in the day!)

squiz I agree with others, I think your anxiety is trying to worm its way back in despite your hard work.... Bf poo can be practically anything!!! Once a week or 12 times a day is normal, yellow green or brown.... Always best to look at the baby and you as a mum know best if she is 'herself '

cannot thinking of you, so hard to see little ones go through things like that Fingers crossed test results are good xxx

I've had a terrible 24 hours , DD2 has changed from the worlds easiest baby into a non sleeping crying baby, I am so tired and sad. Only day 12. I feel overwhelmed I don't recognise my body and I'm so tired . This too will pass . Hope tonight is better.

She's now fed a lot but just wee for 5 hr. It's my turn to change her next ...! Wish me luck. Something tells me it will be a full one!!

Cannot keeping FX for the appointment tomorrow.

Writer really hope ds sleeps tonight. FX for you.

Thanks ladies for the well wishes for Ryder! Will update tomorrow evening when we get home from the hospital.

Claire not on a ward I don't think. He's having another ultrasound scan, a mag scan and a cystogram (sp?) again and then consultant appt after all of those to discuss the outcome.

Good luck to everyone with poorly babies.

DS lasted 30 mins in cot upstairs alone, then we heard the crying! So DH went to settle him (I was cooking!) and just brought him down, plan aborted for now! He's been quite restless tonight, he's in a deeper sleep now but only slept from 9-11.30 in pram downstairs. (I'm phasing out Moses basket now) and I've just got him settled. I'm fully expecting a 1.30 wake up as he's fed at 11.30 (basically a dream feed as he was almost completely asleep) and I don't have any hopes of him going longer. I think he might be a bit windy but he won't burp any more (at least without really waking him). How do you burp babies when you dream feed them?

He looks so small in big cot! Also he managed to end up horizontal across it this morning, so head still hit the bars! I need an airwrap if I can't have bumpers.