Can we have an honest discussion about combined feeding

[LavalavalavaLamp]

I am currently breastfeeding my 10 week old with 2 x 100ml formula top ups a day. This was born out of necessity as she wasn't gaining very much weight at all.
I resisted formula for longer than I should have for a few reasons which seem unimportant now:
I was told that the cereals in formula would stretch her stomach, increasing the chance of her being overweight in later life.
I was told that even a small amount of formula would have a negative impact on her gut.
I had in my mind that I wouldn't mixed feed, too much effort, I would do one or the other.
Also all the usual breast is best stuff all medical professionals tell you when you're pregnant.

I am now finding the mix effective in weight gain, sterilising bottles isn't that much effort and I still have the convenience of bfing most of the day and all night. I also now realise that the above is not necessarily accurate.

I am also told (again, I've no idea how accurate this is) that a new study shows no difference in bf or ff children.

I feel that the emphasis is on the benefit of exclusively breastfeeding but I wonder if mixed feeding is actually a much more practical solution for the health of both mother and child. What are your thoughts and experiences?

I didn't want to use any formula either. I have a good friend who is a HV, has been running a breastfeeding support group for 25 years and she believes that one bottle of formula camn set upa a cascade of immune respondses which may be irreversible.
Babies have leaky guts ( with good reason) when we give formula we are allowing cows milk peptides and proteins into the baby's bloodstream to circulate.
I don't feel this is ideal- and neither does my HV.

.. Sorry there was meant to be a point in my rambling post, which was - even the bf clinic I attended were in favour of some degree of mixed feeding, so I don't see it as being something not mentioned/supported enough, where I live anyway.
I wanted support not to mix feed really.

But in the UK, the stats are crystal clear. Bottles of formula - even one -given early dramatically shorten the time of any breastfeeding. Obv this is not true in every case and mothers absolutely need to know that there are ways to preserve bf alongside formula if their choice is to bf

I do think the message that "giving a formula bottle means bf-ing will fail" should be addressed. Mix-feeding was brilliant for us (from day 2). I had no problems at all doing both, as it is what DS knew. The recommendation to leave it until 6 weeks makes no sense whatsoever.

" The recommendation to leave it until 6 weeks makes no sense whatsoever."

But it does actually. You may not have had difficulties, but that doesn't mean that all women are the same. Surely you can understand that.

why not even suggest a few days of expressed milk prior to formula

Because it was not there. I managed to do the feeds I did but ran out by the evening. And that was with all the tricks.

Maybe the traumatic birth? The ginormobob baby? The csection? The thyroid problem? Who knows, but I happily mix-fed for nearly 9 months.

But deepbluetr - what she believes is incidental, unless there is evidence. My healthier child (skinny, fit, will eat anything), is the one who was mix-fed. The other one (ex-bf until 22 months), is chubbier, a fussy eater, gets ill more easily.

Does that mean that applies to all babies? No.

But it does actually. You may not have had difficulties, but that doesn't mean that all women are the same. Surely you can understand that.

It doesn't make sense to me. If you wait until 6 weeks surely there is almost zero chance to get the baby to take a bottle? My DD would have none of it.

But Primal, I was talking about my experience - they didn't suggest to me to try expressed milk first, and I didn't have trouble expressing enough milk for that. Obviously if the expressed milk isn't available then you can't give it!

Sorry, was reading quickly and assumed you meant other people jumped to it too quickly.

No problem (reading things fast is a c

..a consequence of motherhood, as is posting too soon!)

I maybe am lucky that neither of mine got nipple confusion. DS took food however he got it (was so grateful after not getting enough on and off for 3 weeks as I tried to just bf), and DD completely rejected the bottle/syringe/cup at about 2 weeks old.

ChocolateWombat, you say "Regarding the idea that just one bottle means breast feeding will end sooner.....this may well be true, but is put in a way that gives people that terrible guilt they get over formula or mixed feeding. "

WHO is putting it in that way? I have explained that the stats show bf is likely to end sooner if bottles of formula are given - did I say it n a way that gives people 'terrible guilt'? I suppose some people might say something that is badly-phrased, but as I said, the experiences I know of are much more likely to be of someone (an HCP, but often a friend or relative) suggesting formula top ups very casually, and without regard to the individual's own decisions.

You add "And I find that even when NCT people or other advisors are advising, in a so-called open way, which says everyone has choices and mixed or formula feeding might be the best thing for an individual, it is said in such a way, as to make clear that this is an INFERIOR option. There is never really a suggestion that in this particular situation and for this particular family, it might be best."

I don't see the contradiction! NCT acknowledges that people's choices may well be 'the best thing for an individual' as you say. Is this not identical to saying that 'in this particular situation and for this particular family, it might be best' ?? Where's the difference? I think you are confused.

In fact, NCT bfcs don't express an opinion to an individual about what might be best for them - we are 'parent centred' and support people in making their own decisions about what is best for them.

"we are 'parent centred'"- that's interesting tiktok. I have worked with La Leche League for many years, and I don't think that applies to us.

We are as focussed on the baby as the parent, both needs are important, neither to the exlusion of the other. Perhaps that is why LLL is seen as more "baby centred"?

Yes, deep blue, I would say this is the difference. There are many similarities in Nct 's approach and LLL's but this is where we would differ. LLL has (or had - not sure if it is still the case) a strap line 'good parenting through breastfeeding' and that's not nct's view.

I think LLL are an excellent organisation nevertheless! But it would not be for me.

"mothering through breastfeeding" is the clause, not as perjorative as the "good parenting" idea you suggest- and the implications that has.

Ah right. Mothering not parenting. Sorry. I think there was a 'good' in there at one time but I might be wrong.

I qualified 14 years ago ( joined 17 years ago) never been a "good" in there in my time.

Ok prob got it wrong, sorry!

I guess the other main differenence is that LLL only provide suport for breastfeeding, while NCT provide help for lots of parenting issues, birth, ante natal support , formula feeding etc.
LLL will provide support with weaning from the breast, introducing solids ( in combination with breastfeeding), nighttime parenting through breastfeeding etc.- but not on other parenting issues.

Other major difference is LLL do not campaign and I believe are constitutionally prevented from doing so....again, I think I am right, but could be wrong :)

So LLL as an organisation do not lobby for acceptance of the WHO code, better facilities for bf women, acceptance of bf in a public place . And so on.

As my babies come from family backgrounds with dietary health issues (including overweight, food intolerance and allergy) I will not give them anything to eat aside from breast milk until they are 6 months old and their guts are mature. (Can only trust current scientific research as far as knowing when this occurs).

That is non-negotiable for me personally as the one who will be breastfeeding and I hope that the baby oblige as well and will take the breast milk.

Don't underestimate the work that LLL do behind the scenes.

I sat on the steering committee in the Scottish Parliament representing LLL for 4 years which guided the Breastfeeding in Public Bill through to success.

I have also respesented LLL at many NHS strategy and planning groups over the years. LLL leaders are free to involve themselves as much as they wish to.

That's great, deepblue, and I know individuals do excellent work. Was only pointing out that as a body, LLL avoids a public voice. This is for their own reasons and they have the right to decide. Of course !

Yes that's true tiktok- I think it's because they don't see themselves as a hierarchical organisation, so their is no "official voice" if you like.