is the odd FF really that bad??

[PumpkinPi]

I've been exclusively BF my 14 week old DD. I used to express 1 feed a day, but she started sleeping 12 through the night from 9 weeks, and so I didn't bother to express anymore as she was only feeding 5 times a day. Around this time her weight gain slowed right down, obviously due to a sudden drop in her feeds, so I began to give her a dream feed at around 11pm. I have the grandparents coming over on Friday to do some babysitting on Friday, and I'm toying with the idea of leaving Formula for them to do the late feed, as I've really got out of the habit of expressing. It's only one feed and I would consider doing it maybe a couple more times in the next few months. It can't be that bad can it? For some reason I feel guilty even considering letting Formula pass her lips before 6 months...

If you are going to I would do a test run first, she might not take formula.
I will be shot down for this, but I dont think the odd formulas feed will be a problem

also, does anyone have any recommendations on which Formula is best?

Auntymandy I'll get shot with you then, I don't think the odd ones too bad either, since 3 mths, my dd2's dreamfeed has been formula via bottle too, we've been using SMA gold, but agree with testing it 1st, just in case its not a brand that goes down well, some people swear by Aptimil.

she is odd, I'll gibe you that

Pumpkin,I'm not too sure on the science of it,but it seems the formula can interfere with the delicate balance of flora that b/feedng has built up in baby's stomach.
Maybe Tiktok or Mears or Pupuce can tell you more??

I gave about 3 bottles of formula to my first baby,as expressing was tough,but none at all to second,as had cracked it.

Up to you though.

this referenced pdf gives the science of what 'just one bottle' does to the infant gut.

What's you;re suggesting, pumpkin, will not have much effect on you continuing to breastfeed - established breastfeeding can cope with the occasional bottle of formula - but the link above shows how (especially in families susceptible to allergy) it could have effects you don't want, on the health of your baby.

Read the link and decide! I can't imagine why people think they will be 'shot down' (??????) for saying it's ok to give a bottle - there are many factors in deciding what to give a baby to eat/drink and actually, the health aspect is not the only one, and anyone who is a true supporter of breastfeeding mothers knows the decisions may be complex and individual.

Hope it helps, anyway.

Sorry - link doesn't work. Google on 'just one bottle', including the quotes, and it is near the top of the list.

Thanks Tiktok, I had no idea about those effects! We don't have any allergies in our families, but I'm totally put off anyway. Best get the pump out!! I'm concerned now that I gave DD some cooled boiled water during the really hot spell we had, as advised by a nurse. Would that have the same kind of effect I wonder ...I hope not - I really want to do the best for the little one.

Pumpkin, water is simply not necessary, even in the very hottest weather, but it is highly unlikely to have any bad effect, short or long term, because it is the foreign proteins in formula that cause the problems in susceptible babies.

There is a risk with water that the baby gets bugs from the teat, bottle or water itself, but of course you minimise this by making sure everything is clean before you give it to the baby (and a bf baby is likely to be ok, anyway, because of the immune-system protection of the breastmilk antibodies).

IMHO it will do no harm at all- I exclusivly bf dd but when I went out riding I left a bottle of formula and she had it (difficult at first) so do a trial run. Its not going to do anything to her at all I promise you. Although I am very pro breast feeding, all this crap about formula doing them any harm in my opinion is a load of rubbish.and before everyone gets on high horse- one of the reasons people GIVE UP bf is because they want a break occaisonally, and find bf restrictive. If this gets you a chance of a break and a night out with your hubbie then go for it. DD was on formula alone from 17 weeks and is doing marvelous- the guilt you feel is part of the hormones and all the negativity about formula- I could not express , but it may work for you, but hey I would just leave formula and DONT worry about it.

lily - why are you so keen to tell Pumpkin what to do, and what to feel?

It's fine to share experience and opinions, but the link I posted was not 'crap' and to dismiss Pumpkin's feelings about guilt as hormones is unfair. She is capable of thinking for herself, don't you agree, without being told her feelings are not genuinely held?

Tiktok - I'm interested in that pdf as I will probably have to FF for 24 hr bursts when I take one type of my medication but the link's not working - would you mind trying again? (btw thatnks to you and mears I just had a really successful consult with my GP over BF and meds so big thanks )

I'm sure my feelings aren't down to hormones - I really feel on an even keel emotionally. There is a great deal of negativity towards FF, which is why I was so concerned in the first place. Lillymolly, you are right - I do want a break from the BF, and would love to just go out without worrying about having to do all the expressing etc. but I don't really have any 'technical' problems with expressing - I just find it even more of a pain then BF! Therefore, if I left Formula, it would really just be alittle selfish really.

liquid, glad your consult went ok.

I can't get the link to work - sorry,

As I say, though, Google with the words 'just one bottle' sitting inside quotes and you will get the article near the very top of the listings. It's in a few places on the web. The one you are after is written in a serious, non-sensationalist way and has references.

You are 100 per cent sure your meds will mean a suspension of breastfeeding??? This does sometimes have to happen, I know, but it is really very unusual.

I have just done a google search on "just one bottle" and as far as I can see, this is one woman's work in America. There are several articles by her and another ( american) article quotes references that are no more recent than over 10 years old. This is hardly evidence based!!

I understand your feelings pumpkin pi because I feel the same - in my mind I liken formula to giving my baby poison!! But rationally I know that's totally ridiculous as many mothers ( including most of my family) successfully breast feed without worrying about others giving the odd formula here and there. Yes - some women may find their supplies are affected but everyone is different. Yes - I worry about reflux and vomiting and gastroenteritis but I'm sure he mothers of formula fed babies are equally worried.

At present I'm exclusively breast feeding and hope to do so until 3-4 mths and then I may consider formula if my LO is still having 11-12 feeds in 24 hrs ( like now) As far as I can see, a lot of kids given formula seem to last a lot longer after the feed - which is something that we all want at some stage - especially if we are going back to work.

What annoys me is when people quote scientific research as if it is gospel when any scientist can tell you that it needs to be critiqued and interpreted properly - I for one dismiss what I have just read.

The 'negativity towards formuila' is not based on nothing! There are reasons for it!

I said in my post that there is more to deciding whether to give formula than just the health aspects - important though they are. It's up to the individual to decide where the balance is. Freedom (not to be sniffed at!) and the need for a break can be strong reasons, and can be equal to (or over-ride) health concerns - but the health concerns are still real.

As I said, are you basing this on one woman's work? we all know breast is best but we are discussing the ODD formula here and there and you are using these articles as a reason not to and I am asking - what is the evidence?? Evidence is not based one author's work (look at what trouble that caused with the MMR scandal)

why does a simple question get such a heated response?
I dont think one feed will upset your supply and I dont really see a huge problem,but if you have facts that truly put you off dont do it. You have to do what you are comfortable with.

The article is quite old (about 6 years, I think), and some of the references are old, but a lot of that is because the information doesn't change - the studies on stools of bf and formula fed babies are standard stuff, for instance. I don't see that US references make something less 'scientific'. The work is an overview, written by one author - the work itself is not the reserarch.

To dismiss something because the references are old or American is very closed-minded, wouldn't you agree, amijee?

Clearly, one takes into account the time the papers cited were written, and then wonders if something else has come up that refutes the conclusions in the meantime. Work done since those papers has, if anything, gone further to support the health benefits of exclusive breastfeeding, though I don't know of any more recent overview of exactly this type.

I agree but it is misleading to write as if you are an authority on something and make references to articles as if they are fact and not hypothesis.

There are some people who will research everything for themselves but there are others that would take certain views of people on this site as gospel and act accordingly - that's what bothers me! And those poor women end up feeling guilty because of some ridiculous article.

Sorry, amijee, our posts are crossing!

It's not 'one woman's work' - goodness only knows how many people are involved in the work of about 15 papers. She's only brought the refs together.

Auntymandy, this isn't very heated, is it??

I agree with you - one feed won't upset Pumpkin's supply (which is what I said), and I don't see a huge problem in non-susceptible-to-allergy babies, and of course she must do what she feels comfortable with. My reason for posting was to give her more information so she could decide with more 'tools' than just people's opinions or experiences.

Hello Pumpkin I just wanted to add my experiences with formula feed and they are as follows:

I was completely formula fed from birth onwards and was and am completely healthy (no allergys etc)

My little brother was breast fed up till the age of two and as soon as he started to be weaned it was discovered that he had a wheat allery. This is something that he grew out of. He also had an allergic reaction to another form of food at about the age of 6/7. He is constantly getting ill even to this day.

My dd was breast fed solely for two weeks and then mixed fed. She is and was always healthy and hasn't suffered any ill effects despite allergy's like asma (and the wheat allergy my brother had) running in our family. What it did mean though was that every now and then I would get a break (as she was a very hungry baby when I was bfing).

There are many mothers that I know who have solely FF and have perfectly healthy babies and children.

The point that I am trying to make is that aside from all the adversity that comes with mentioning FF on MN, IME giving a FF has not caused any of the many babies that I know any harm.

It just depends on the baby. As I said before my little brother was solely BF and suffered with a lot of illnesses.

Thanks tiktok - I've googled it. I'm pretty sure about the meds but I'm still trying to speak to someone on the breastfeeding network's drugline - it's immigran and BNFL says fine but don't BF for 24hrs after tablet. Hopefully won't be a common occurrence.

(Btw, pumpkinpi, I too am well versed in how to critique research ad review articles and the one tiktok linked to seems fine to me and I'm happy to take it's findings into consideration in my decisions)

aimijee, I don't know why you are critical of me. I sent Pumpkin to a scientific paper. I did not tell her what to do, and I did not share my views on what she should do. So no one has the option of taking my views 'as gospel' because I didn't give any!

Auntymandy, I suppose it's heated because people feel strongly about it, and to be honest that is what makes it so difficult for me to decide what to do. On the one hand I think what harm can it do, and on the other I feel I have no real reason to deprive DD of what is best for her - and I know I'll have occasional feeling that I somehow have failed if I don't make it to the magic 6 month milestone.