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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

DW still in agony after 2 weeks - your thoughts please

91 replies

Rollingpapa · 09/08/2006 16:09

OK, so hubby here is rather worried about DW.

Wonderful new baby (DS), v chilled, capable of 3-4 hour sleeps (mainly during the day), but --

DW literally curling her toes in agony during every feed. Most so at latch-on.

Have tried:
shields - Medela smalls, DS didn't draw so well
pump - apparently v painful for DW, but in different way
Changing position - from across to underarm. Kind of helped, but not much
Breast-feeding expert - at local hospital, who said that the latch-on was good, but that she was still getting ridge on top of nipple

My question: is it meant to hurt at the beginning?! DW really frustrated by the feeling that she is doing something "wrong" and that the pain is all her "fault"

She's currently with her mum, and I'm in the office, so this is by way of gathering experienced thoughts on the subject...

Thank you anyone who can chip in!

OP posts:
Original poster
Rollingpapa · 09/08/2006 16:57

Stars you are, all of you. Thank you.

Am scooting off now to La Leche & kelly.com to swot up and have some suggestions for DW.

Things I didn't mention but have come up on the thread:
Cracked nipples - yes, very much so, both sides
Early feeds - DW left alone on morning after birth at hospital, and performed unsupervised 30min (yep, thirty) feeds on each side. Have since found out that no-one has enough colostrum to last that long that early!
Lansinoh - using it, and I think it's helping
Tongue-tied - local bf expert midwife checked and said no to this specifically
Let-down pain - doesn't seem like it, as she describes it as shooting needles of pain that starts at latch, dips a bit for about ten minutes, then rises again (and is usually what forces her to stop on that breast)

Tiktok - the local bf expert said that the ridge (which is better explained as an indentation) along the base the the nipple looked like a result of the nipple not going far enough back, so I think you're onto something. She suggested baby cranial osteopathy to loosen the jaw...!

V glad that DW's not alone in this. So much focus goes into getting through the pain of labour that we didn't hear anything about HOW painful bf could be.

Shoulda talked to you all earlier!

OP posts:
tiktok · 09/08/2006 17:01

rolling, 30 min feed is absolutely fine....babies don't just go on the breast to get colostrum/milk but to have that maternal-baby contact they are primed for. There is nothing wrong with a long time on the breast as long as the baby is on the breast in a way which does not damage the nipples. Obviously, if the position is not good, then 30 mins is going to do more damage than 10 mins.

It sounds like positioning to me.....baby might be helped by latching himself on when relaxed and sleepy...lots of skin to skin contact, and maybe co-bathing, can help with this.

Original poster
Rollingpapa · 09/08/2006 17:03

lazycow - Putney/London works v well for us.

Not sure how it works with mnetters contacting each other, but would be brilliant to have details.

KristinaM - natural birth, 11 hour labour, but clampdown sounds a good way to describe what DS seems to be doing. Please explain more about it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Rollingpapa · 09/08/2006 17:06

tiktok - v keen to hear more about your suggestions, if you're able.

OP posts:
cye · 09/08/2006 17:13

i'd just like to say your dw has my sympathy. i had the same problem. started to dread the next feed as soon as dd had come off from the last one... i still don't know what the problem was. everyone (midwives, counsellors) said my positioning was fine but it hurt like hell and did so for some time. it did get better though and here i am 9 months later an 'old hand'.
i felt very shortchanged by all the books and info i'd drunk in before the birth which all said 'if you're doing it right it won't hurt'. you can imagine my frustration when i seemed to be doing it right as far as anyone could tell and it still hurt... aaargh.
i have no magic formula but it did pass. best book i used was 'bestfeeding; how to breastfeed your baby' renfrew, fisher and arms pub celectial arts.
good luck!

lazycow · 09/08/2006 17:19

I think we use a system called CAT but I haven't paid for this. If you are happy to put your email here I will email you her details (assuming she is still there) - I last saw her 21 months ago!!

laundrylover · 09/08/2006 17:51

if your dw gets her latch checked and it's fine then it may be thrush. do a search on here and there are lots of links to articles and advice. for me the only external sign was a loss of colour on the end of my nips and excrutiating pain! had it for months now and have learnt to live with it.
your support is just what she needs now whatever so well done you.

Original poster
Rollingpapa · 09/08/2006 17:59

lazycow - have opened email address: [email protected]

Would be amazing if you could ping details (if they're still around somewhere!)

Will shortly be printing this thread off and sending to DW at her mum's. Can't believe how brave she is to go through this kind of pain every two hours (or more).

You've all been ace. Thank you!

OP posts:
KristinaM · 10/08/2006 02:10

rolingpapa - if you google "clampdown bite reflex" you will get info on several of the sites you already have links too - like kellymom and laleche.

HTH

ztt · 10/08/2006 06:14

please bear in mind you may not be able to post freely here in future

throckenholt · 10/08/2006 07:50

where are you based ? Maybe there is someone who has done it who could come round and talk things through (in the absence of a qualified breastfeeding counsellor).

And try and find out if there is a breastfeeding clinic in the area - where she can go and talk to people about different things to try.

tiktok · 10/08/2006 08:24

rolling, you asked for more info from me. Latching himself on without your wife actually placing her nipple in his mouth can sometimes help babies. Best thing is to get someone to watch what's happening - if someone doesn't watch how the baby takes the breast and just looks at how the baby is on when feeding and then says, 'well, it looks all right to me, just persevere' show them the door

Having said that, sometimes time passes and the soreness does get better and better, without anyone actually doing anything. Baby prob sorts himself out and gets a bigger mouth, too.

tiktok · 10/08/2006 08:25

ztt....?????

As long as we avoid the topic we have been asked to avoid, why would we be stopped posting freely?

lovecloud · 10/08/2006 08:53

Can I just say that breastfeeding for some CAN hurt even if the baby is latched on correctly - they dont tell you this beforehand.

With first baby I was in agony for just over two weeks, cracked nipples, blood everything, then slowly the pain eased and it became very enjoyable. I had my latch checked a few times and was eventually told my nipples would toughen up soon! "How soon?" I shouted - the pain gradually eased after two weeks.

I know alot of breastfeeders and only a few experienced no pain when first starting. I bet if you started a thread just asking "Did it hurt when you first started breastfeeding?" the thread would come back mainly "yes!" - actually im going to do it now...

If you think about it, your wives nipples have to get use to being drained of milk 6-8 times a day for 20 minutes or more - its got to hurt a bit!!!

With my second dd, my breasts coped much better and I just had managable pain for about a week and the pain started to ease, again I had a breast feeding councellor check my latch which she said was perfect so please tell your wife not to worry and as long as she is sure the baby is latched on right that the pain will ease very soon if she keeps in there. Tell her to squeeze some milk out after each feed, rub around the nipple and leave nipples to dry in the air (so leave bra off after feeds for while).

good luck x

fluffyanimal · 10/08/2006 09:05

Lovecloud I'm with you on this, for some it just does hurt no matter what. and I also don't think it's that easy to teach a newborn baby how to change it's mouth position etc, so shoot me down in flames but sometimes you just have to go for the best latch on your baby can manage. I endured about a month of pain and horribly cracked nipples (ds would occasionally draw blood from me and vomit it back, which was super scary!) and everyone said the position and latch on were fine. I have so much sympathy for your wife, rollingpapa. My midwife prescribed me a dressing for my nipples called Jellonet, which was very soothing. Ask your mw or hv about it. What I can say is, it did get better and ds can now chew away to his hearts content on my nips and it doesn't hurt a bit.

lazycow · 10/08/2006 09:13

Rollinpapa

I have emailed name and phone number to you

Hope it helps

good luck

Mojomummy · 10/08/2006 09:18

cranial osteopathy works on the baby's latch. There are nerves which can prevent the baby opening his mouth wide enough. Certainly worth the £40+ consultation if the problem is here.

I feel for you poor wife....

possumhead · 10/08/2006 09:34

I went through loads of pain when i began breast feeding my dd. It lasted about 3 weeks to be honest and i had latch checked over and over, each time to be told it was perfect (so why were nipples so sore and bleeding??) I used nipple shields after first week, it was still painful but not as toe-curling!! Then my health visitor told me to drink a pint of guiness every evening.... apparently really good for milk supply and iron levels. After that things gradually got better and i'm still breast-feeding at 6 months! Good luck.

RedZuleika · 10/08/2006 09:44

Haven't read the whole thread, so don't know if someone else has covered this.

I believe that some people can suffer from a painful let-down. I did for a couple of months at the beginning, just on one side. I felt like the milk was trying to pump through rusty old pipes, that weren't cleared and open for the flow. It rectified itself in the end.

The La Leche League has some information here .

Californifrau · 10/08/2006 09:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CarolinaMao · 10/08/2006 09:58

lol Possumhead - when my mum came round after we got back from hospital, the first thing she brought me was a four-pack of Guinness.

no idea if the iron thing is true or not, but it deffo made the evening cluster-feeding easier to put up with .

ajwaterfield · 10/08/2006 12:37

i would just like to say that my thoughts are with your DW. i breastfed for the second time and had curling toes for 3 and half months. every time it came to feeding i would put on my favourite program(friends)take a deep breath and grit my teeth. not medical advise i know but it saw me through!
good luck xx

FourJays · 10/08/2006 13:30

I agree with ajwaterfield!
It hurt first time for best part of two months (and I do mean toe-curling agony!!) and it still hurt for a few weeks second time around too. That was a bit of a shock. But I perservered because I really wanted to do it and ended up feeding both of them for 18 months.
Relax, put on a video while she is doing it. I found lying down most comfortable actually. And I used nipple shields for 6 weeks too.
I was told to leave a little milk on the nipple to dry after a feed - much more soothing than nipple cream! That did work actually.
Oh and second time around I used to express a little bit first with an Avent hand pump. My boobs were so swollen it was hard to get a latch and it used to make my nipples in a better "shape" ready for feed.
Persevere if you can. It will be pain free and totally worth it. I miss it now actually.....

pointydog · 10/08/2006 14:06

Don't feel bad, Mrs Rolling! Listen to lovecloud and possumhead. With my dd1, breastfeeding was excrituating for two weeks exactly and then the pain just stopped.

If the experts just tell you that there is a latching problem (as I was told), that's not necessarily true. Sometimes, for some women, breastfeeding just is extremely painful - cracks, bleeding, scabs. I cried at every feed and had thumping headaches with pain and tiredness.Those little nips have to toughen up for some of us. Nipple shields helped me a bit.Trouble is, don't know when this will happen for Mrs R.

Nothing (probably) and no one is at fault so don't be hard on yourself. And if it all gets too awful, remember that bottle feeding is fine too.

MarscusGarvey · 10/08/2006 14:09

Sorry if already asked. Where are you based RP?