Read this shocking article about the damaging effects of formula and the immoral practices of the companies who peddle this junk.

[moondog]

From The Ecologist magazine.

Here.....

Grim reading.

ok. just clear it up for me please. am i a bad mother for never wanting or attempting to breastfeed?

just want to know.

i seem to have three successful, bright sociable inteligent healthy children.

i nearly died giving birth at 17 and could hardly stand for a few weeks after. but that fact didn't interfere with my choice. however i o wonder at what cost mothers are EXPECTED absolutley EXPECTED to be martyrs to their children.

to be perfectly honest with you. i think i would have killed myself and my baby at that time should somone have guilted me into doing an additional burden.

dramatic? yes. it was rather.

i know personal stuff is unhelpful in a general debate and often fucks ME off becuase the question doesn't get answered. however i can only answer for me. whereas some people who breastfeed often think ( thats often not always - and some not all) that becuase they have the moral high ground ( and they absolutley do - no argument from me) that they can preach like a fucking evangelical christian beating 7 colours of shit out of you with a bible and telling you to believe in god.

i despair sometimes. as long as we make the information available to give people an informed choice. as long as we strive as a society to have councellors and staff in place to help mothers to act upon an informed choice - this is what we should be aiming for. - not the former. its just not appropriate and is quite upsetting.

so much so i have found recently is there pressure to breastfeed when a mother doesn't want to. that she says " i tried" when most people knwo you have to perservere with support. but mothers would ratther say " i tried" than say - look i didn't want to so back the fuck off ok?!

and yes breasts are udders. for god sake dont use them to have a good sex life.

I didn't want to so back the fuck off

Use them for sex custy? heaven forbid.

Yes Jimjams I think we are in agreement that there needs to be more support for individual family circumstances, for breastfeeding to become an attainable option for all except a tiny fraction of women.

There are still several things bothering me about this thread as a whole, though. I really have not seen anyone say or imply that mothers who absolutely could not breastfeed for medical reasons, or other unarguable reasons, should do anything other than give formula. That is what formula is for. Yet people keep feeling the need to post their particular story as if we have asked them to justify their need to give formula. Where has anyone said that mothers who couldn't breastfeed should not give formula?

Morocco... I have read somewhere that whilst bottlefeeding is shown as a factor in SIDS it is all about interpretation of the data. It can also be shown that it is not related to bottlefeeding but socio-economic factors.

I would like to say though, that thanks to Tiktok, I appreciate the fact that the incidence of certain diseases etc are not related to socio-economic factors as I once assumed they might have been. Also more than happy for someone to put me right on SIDS and bottlefeeding if need be. Facts are what we need.

Oh, and what MrsBadCrumble[rofl] said.

I think people are trying to say why they feel aggrieved at the thread title Franny

F&Z, I think the thing is you can't just have it both ways. You can't post inflammatory thread titles and keep on pointing out, supposedly, serious risks of feeding with formula and then tell people that had no option not to feel bad about it. The risks you are pointing out apply to all those formula fed, regardless of the reason. Therefore it is obviously going to upsetting for those who desperately wanted to bf and genuinely couldn't - it's bad enough that it was something that wanted to do and couldn't but having people harping on about how at the same time they have put their child in such grave danger is just adding insult to injury.

Squarer, I am really not knowledgeable about statistics aat all but surely in a reputable study published in a medical journal, socio-economic factors would be taken into account?

But the logical conclusion of that, GDG, seems to be that we can't talk about the drawbacks or risks of formula at all. Which is what I have the problem with.

I see your point.

Although it could be highlighted and discussed in a less sensationalist and inflammatory manner.

MD has not gone on holiday and is certainly not upset by the response, as someone suggested. It's blindingly obvious what her intention was. She's got a great big wooden spoon and she likes to use it.

Good lord we are almost - not quite, but almost, agreeing on this GDG

exactly.

if a women undergoing chemo feeds formula its ok but a women who just doesnt want to isnt?

Surely all these metals and chemicals and sugars will still be harmfull for the chemo mothers child as it is the Ff by choice women?

there is no grey area with medical fact....its either bad or it isnt.

As I read it Franny, it was down to interpretation. I can remember the book I read it in, and it was by no means scientific, but at the same time made sense and I assume the author had got it from somewhere.
Certainly the other issues took socio-economic factors into account as the study actually said so from the offset.

not going to read the whole thread - simply haven't got the time.

however in moondogs defence (and she already knows my opinion on the article matter re the 'junk' food aspect) she is merely pointing out something that was mentioned in the article, and which if we're totally honest is the main message of the article (basically saying that formula is cr*p).

I suspect she chose this thread title as her orginial thread on the same subject matter hardly attracted any attention or comments either from exclusive bottle feeders, or exclusive breastfeeders (or even mixed feeders). Nothing wrong with that IMO

but i do agree that this shoudnt mean we should not discuss the pro's and cons of formula milk.

if there are studies that come out saying FF is damaging we shold be made aware of it, but we should be made aware of it by saying....hey look all you bad mothers who feed junk..its gonna give your kid cancer/asthma/sids

and, although i know that this is not a quote..its absolutly how i feel some of those articles cpme across

I wish I knew more about it Squarer, I often read about a piece of research and think "well, yes, but surely that's down to...."

It's fascinating but far too complex for my ahem, more lateral mind I think.

Well said custy!

But the people who publish these studies and articles want to get the facts across, FM. How are they meant to convey to us that formula can cause SIDS or whatever, other than by saying it?

why can they not publish the reports?

say that Recent reseach indicates a possible lin between X and Y.
in a study involving XXX it was seen that ABC had a distinct affect on EFG.

why do they always have to have this tone of, formula is bad....anything but breast is semi neglect of your duties as a mother.

Franny - I think you mean that b/f lessens the chance of SIDS, rather than formula causes it?

Re SIDS there have only been a few studies on correlations and the FSID are seeking funding for a big study next year according to their annual report. So there should be more robust data available in the next couple of years.

Chonky, I was thinking about that as I posted, but I am not sure, really. I am struggling to express what I mean without offending anyone but I think as breastfeeding is the norm, and bottle feeding a deviation from that norm, then describing breastfeeding as being protective against something instead of formula causing something, is rather pedantic and possibly even misleading. Introducing foreign substances into children's bodies, rather than breastmilk which is designed for the purpose, can cause certain health problems. I think it is insincere and pussyfooting to say otherwise.

It has been said Franny. No need to run for cover!

By LucyJu on Friday, 28 July, 2006 9:12:42 PM - there is an argument that, as breastfeeding is biologically the "normal" way of feeding a baby, it does not have health advantages over formula. Rather, formula has disadvantages in comparison with breastmilk

I think Jimjams and Custy's points are interesting - that sometimes it's physically possible to bf, but that with other life circumstances going on around you, it's realistically not possible to bf and do the other stuff - which needs to be done (like eating, looking after other children, etc.)

But that's not an argument for promoting formula feed, it's an argument to promote better support and care for women who have just had babies, instead of abandoning them as is currently the case. To say nothing of giving them real information. Because sometimes, when the going is really really tough and you can't see a way out except to use formula milk, for some mothers in some situations, how much real, genuine information they have about the difference between breastmilk and formula milk, is the deciding factor between whether to carry on and seek more support, or whether to call it a day. And imo, the fact that some women may still feel bad about their decision to give up, should not be given priority above the need to ensure that future generations of mothers have real, genuine information on which to make an informed decision.