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Infant feeding

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Pope urges breastfeeding in Sistine Chapel

402 replies

marmitecat · 12/01/2014 21:30

news.sky.com/story/1194030/pope-urges-breastfeeding-in-sistine-chapel

Go Pope Francis Grin

I have to admit I felt a bit awkward feeding in church with dc1 so this is pretty much the ultimate way of dispelling that worry.

OP posts:
JugglingBackwardsAndForwards · 15/01/2014 22:26

It's still been interesting though curlew ?

And as atthe said "I think using these truthful arguments does have a great effect"

People should think things through for themselves that's all I'd ask of anyone Smile

Pan · 15/01/2014 22:28

No you don't like to talk about interesting topics at all curlew. You appear to like to post around interesting topics without saying anything interesting, new or informative.

SmudgyDVDsAreEvil · 15/01/2014 22:28

I can't see the Vatican boys following suit though, can you?

Annunziata · 15/01/2014 22:29

I would actually really like to talk about interesting topics without being insulted and ranted at

I would like to take part in a thread that points out the good things about my faith rather than insults it and declares that it promotes child abuse.

Some of the messages on this thread are shocking.

SmudgyDVDsAreEvil · 15/01/2014 22:30

My last comment was re giving all the riches to the poor.

curlew · 15/01/2014 22:31

Pan- so only "oh pope Francis is so very wonderful, such a forward thinker" is an acceptable opinion? And anything else is the ramblings of a "fuckwit"?

SmudgyDVDsAreEvil · 15/01/2014 22:35

Annunziata - what is it that you find shocking?

Pan · 15/01/2014 22:37

No curlew but anything more than that analysis is beyond you.

I'll remember you in my prayers. night.

curlew · 15/01/2014 22:38

Annunciata- please could you tell us what you found shocking?

curlew · 15/01/2014 22:39

Pan- why so rude?

SmudgyDVDsAreEvil · 15/01/2014 22:42

I haven't seen anything pro-Pope on this thread which goes beyond 'New Pope, I'm so impressed, he's almost like a... Christian!!! With humility and everything!!!' And then much brushing of the less palatable stuff under the carpet. Cliched but true.

Annunziata · 15/01/2014 22:46

Mostly the hysteria of the anti-Catholic side. It doesn't seem much of an argument, just sectarian bile. In particular I was really disappointed that MNHQ let the post which said the church promoted abuse stand.

JugglingBackwardsAndForwards · 15/01/2014 22:47

I'm sure you could start a thread to do that Annunciata - I have met many lovely Catholics over the years, many with a heart for the poor and vulnerable, such as in schools I've worked in.
However I'm slightly surprised you are shocked by anything that has been said here.

SmudgyDVDsAreEvil · 15/01/2014 22:54

Re sectarian bile - I can only speak for myself but as an atheist I'm certainly not coming from a Protestant perspective.

To trot out a cliche of my own, several of my best friends are Catholic. My beef is with the oppressive nature of organised religion, of which the Catholic church is an outstanding example.

kobacat · 15/01/2014 22:58

Problem is, it's hard to have an intelligent discussion when you know that even if you agree with the self-defined other side, you'll get told you're part of the patriarchy, so sod off. Little point attempting to explain (and this shocked me, when I experienced it) that the global RCC (as in, all the members of the church, not just the hierarchy) is massive and politically/doctrinally heterogenous and incredibly complex and that a lot of priests, sensible ones, take the pastoral (commonsensical, compassionate) and not the official line on topics like sexuality. Because it's already been decided that the entire RCC consists of the upper Vatican hierarchy, and that belonging to it makes you ridiculous.

And frankly, if you don't have that inside perspective then what you do see is the hierarchy, and if you don't share the basic theology or have some deep involvement with people who do, there's no reason to look further than that. So there's no real reason to argue, anyway. Nobody's going to be convinced and the anger at the abuses and the incongruities is right and justified in itself.

Still, I'd like to stick my hand up and say that contraception and abortion are not a package of evils for at least some of us (certainly not for me: after all, what better way to lower abortion rates than provide free contraception, oh, and a welfare state, and refuse to stigmatise single mothers); that there are plenty of self-identifying Catholics militating for justice for the victims of clerical child abuse (I already mentioned Geoff Robinson: he is just one, but a very very articulate one); that Papal infallibility only relates to ex cathedra pronouncements which come along about twice a century and relate to theology, not social doctrine; and that, again, I think the value of Francis for a lot of people is quite legitimately in the example he's showing and the way he's, quietly or vocally, encouraging the sensible pastoral approach to filter upwards. We're not all waiting for a signal from the bloody Big Giant Head, you know.

kobacat · 15/01/2014 23:02

And I'm really sorry -- that sounds angrier than I intended when I read it back. But I do get annoyed when identities get conflated with issues. Plenty of people on all sides can and should be getting indignant and wanting things fixed when it comes to the official expression of Catholic doctrine. I have, believe it or not, enjoyed reading the discussion a lot.

Annunziata · 15/01/2014 23:03

Isn't that what this thread is supposed to be Juggling? I've heard it all before but it still hurts, maybe that is a better word.

My beef is with the oppressive nature of organised religion, of which the Catholic church is an outstanding example. I don't see what this has to do with a comment on breastfeeding.

curlew · 15/01/2014 23:04

Annunciata- please could you cut and paste an example of the hysteria?

aciddrops · 15/01/2014 23:07

Well said, kobacat. However, all this will be ignored by the brigade as it doesn't suit.

kobacat · 15/01/2014 23:12

Thanks aciddrops. I don't suppose Tina Beattie's a mumsnetter, is she? Smile

highho1 · 15/01/2014 23:15

I thought this thread was in breast and bottle feeding. It has become very derailed.
Sadly this is inevitable as religion is an emotive subject.

Annunziata · 15/01/2014 23:15

Some of the worst ones:

The problem is that the institution is structured in a way (unelected, rich, influential, powerful, free with its opinions) which completely lends itself to abuse of power, corruption, guilty secrets, cover ups etc.

but there are things intrinsic to the Catholic hierarchy and structures (as an institution in the world) that promote sex abuse:

Suppose it was too much to hope he would keep his nose out of other people's wombs.

Gotta love Catholics who talk about child abuse as 'that old chestnut'. Yeah, right, tens of thousands of victims in every continent occupied by human beings, paedophile priests still being protected from the law, but it's only an 'old chestnut' so what are we all worrying about…

I would expect priests cardinals and bishops to at least stand up to their own debateable standards which they clearly can’t.

Why baptise our sinful babies if not to guarantee them ia place in heaven?

I was press ganged into the catholic church as baby.

Women are easier to exploit in a patriarchy.Under the church women have been robbed of their power, including their sexual power- resigned to being placid mothers or objectified as whores.

Annunziata · 15/01/2014 23:16

I also think koba's post was excellent :)

JugglingBackwardsAndForwards · 15/01/2014 23:18

"Isn't that what this thread is supposed to be Juggling?"

I don't know Annunziata - the opening post was mainly a link to an article.
It was left pretty open I think in a "what do you think about this?" sort of way - as picked up by MNHQ in DOTD, where they tag lined it "thoughts?"

I'm sorry if you've felt hurt - but have to say it's just a robust discussion surely?
Of course we are all upset by the thought of child abuse, that is distressing for everyone Sad
And probably frustrating to have the issue seemingly always brought up in relation to your own faith community. I can understand that feeling.
But it has been a huge issue for the church which needs to be addressed throughout society, especially in various institutions including the churches.

DuskAndShiver · 15/01/2014 23:57

For clarity, my background in criticising the RC church is an ex Catholic, (still Christian) who attended weekly Mass and belonged to Catholic communities for a long time, long after it had started to feel very sad and difficult. I am of course properly aware of the distinction between the hierarchy and the church and I think even mentioned how lovely some nuns are.

It was in great pain that I moved away from this institution and accepted that it is inadequate to be my spiritual home and I resent the implication that anyone who criticises it does so from a superficial, ignorant position.

In fact while there are some whom I hugely respect for staying in the church and fighting for their beliefs, there are others who just seem to do what they want and allow the place to remain unihabitable for those who can't ignore, for instance, the misogyny. So don't even talk to to me, as a Catholic, unless you are one of the following:

whole-heartedly believe that women are less human than men;
actively agitate as a feminist within the catholic church

If you are neither of the above but just choose to stick your head in the sand, you are dead to me