mild tongue tie/ upper lip tie but no nipple pain?

[Clarella]

this has been suggested and I'm asking for a referral but I've never really had any pain except a mildly cracked nipple. lo has all the associated issues though and we're looking into reflux at the mo. he certainly has a top lip tie and seems to have limited tongue motility. (according to an lll leader though only at mo through images I sent to her)

I have a top lip tie I realise and a gap in front teeth.

he's 14 weeks old and breast feeding can be distressing for both of us. he's exclusively breast fed.

[Clarella]

oh I didn't realise toomany :( my gp said her daughter was no 2 and so really struggled. I suspect she didn't know with no 1.

I think that's why unicef are pushing it as helps bf. midwifes used to snip routinely but stopped due to infection concerns etc plus fashion for bottle feeding.

I think it might be why some babies are refluxy, windy, colicy and hard work - I see a big difference when I know he's feeding better.

even went in the sling and fell asleep before!

[Clarella]

well done for putting on the Nov thread.

[kissyfur]

Waves to clarella and Toomany

V glad you did mention it on the other thread Toomany! Thanks so much. Can't believe they don't check for it

We have feeding issues here too, and reflux. I don't think it's causing my LO as many problems as you are experiencing but she is going through a refusing feed phase at the mo and now I'm wondering if the lip tie is causing it. She sometimes clicks when feeding. We don't have the green poo right now but we did for a while at about 2 months old.

Spoke to HV this morning and she's suggested I go to the tongue tie clinic at our local hospital, so will see where that leads us

Thanks again

[TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor]

Glad to help kissy, B was refusing last week and was screaming within seconds of latching on. Google 'biological nurturing', this position has really helped me when B refuses to latch.

[Clarella]

we were the same last week. gavisgon did help a bit but.made wind worse. been prescribed omozepral ?? but wo.nt try yet

[Clarella]

on way to appt . really nervous!

[kissyfur]

Good luck! Hope it goes well.

We've got an appt tomorrow morning

[TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor]

Good luck clarella! That was quick kissy, I'm still waiting to hear.

[kissyfur]

I know I was a bit shocked to hear back from the HV so quickly, think it must be a cancellation or something. Hope you hear something soon

[Clarella]

rather confused - she said it was slight and not what they'd class as tt but there was tightness there and she'd do it there and then. we have another appointment on Monday if we want to go ahead and Im hoping to see a bf advisor in the meantime (lll who knows about tt)

feel a bit silly not doing it actually :/

little monkey fed really well on my lap though was exceptionally dozy.

[Clarella]

great kissy - I think it's cos it needs to be urgent.

she said she'd only done 3 lips in 20 years

[kissyfur]

No need to feel silly clarella, would get it done Monday tho. Don't think it hurts them having it snipped

Well my mum has been over this afternoon so I showed her LO's lip and she thinks I'm being a paranoid mum (as usual)! But it really looks like the pictures on the websites you posted links for, guess we will find out tomorrow

[Clarella]

she said his lip tie was quite normal and would stretch. I suppose each situation is taken on its merits though

[ValiumQueen]

Thank you dicks and clarella [Thanks] J is 21 weeks and has lip tie. I only know this because of you. Tongue is fine. This past week I have had to cut back on bf as J was so unwell with lactose overload. I had been block feeding for weeks and my left boob has given up as he will no longer feed from it. I am going to kick some ass at baby clinic tomorrow. I bet I get blank looks all round. I will report back then. I am very sad as I fed my first two children with no problems, and I have sought help from HCPs on several occasions, including the hospital, only to be told he is a hungry baby.

[ValiumQueen]

Bf was the best bit of being a mum with the girls, with J it has been the worst bit

[TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor]

I feel like that too VQ. Breast feeding was so easy with DD1, I can still remember the sensation of milk being literally pulled out of my breast by her, she was such an efficient feeder.

Incidentally, block feeding is not the way to go with lip/tongue tie because too much fore milk builds up and they don't get enough fatty milk. You need to feed from both sides often so that they get to the fatty milk quickly.

[Clarella]

yes I realise the above now toomany.

oh vq I'm so sorry. tongue might have small tie though? often go together. I feel you'd benefit from some really expert .bf advice. you might get boob going again ?

[TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor]

Glad she was willing to do his tongue clarella, I just don't think there's enough of a fuss about lips so they won't do anything. Watching B feed I can see gaps at the sides of her mouth because her top lip will not flange. It's definitely the top lip that is affecting the latch.

I actually think I've got a tongue tie, I can't touch the roof of my mouth when I open my mouth wide. My sister can't open her mouth very far at all and neither of use we're breastfed past a week. My mum said that we both lost a lot of weight and she was told to formula feed us both.

[minipie]

I was convinced DD's problem was her lip tie rather than her tongue tie but in fact getting the tongue alone snipped did lead to major improvement. even though she still couldn't flange top lip properly the feeds were much better. and now her mouth has grown and she can flange her top lip too.

TT and lip tie often run in families so if you or DH/DP have a gap or your mother or MIL struggled to BF then it's worth checking your baby.

[Clarella]

thanks for your experience mini. was it a 'posterior' tie? she didn't use that word but said there was tightness at the back if the tongue. she said the lip would stretch.

after many posts on the local fb lll page I'm thinking to just gettin done on Monday. I suddenly feel my milk is a lot less actually which someone said happened to them. unless it's normal as I'm used to having too much!

too many that does sound very much like you have - my lll leader said it's passed on the male side but obviously who knows with genetics!

[Clarella]

mini did you try dairy free or was it the tie? I think I saw a thread where you'd considered it?

I'm trying as even doc suggested it. I'm doing it to disprove the theory; either way I get satisfaction - disprove theory or happy baby

it's a bugger tho.

[TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor]

My milk feels less since I've started feeding from both sides again but I think this is a good thing. It means that I'm only producing what is needed and and I'm not storing lots of hind milk in the breast. B is a lot happier and her nappies have massively improved. She has only produced one green nappy a day for the last three days and that has been the morning nappy, this would make sense as she sleeps through from 10.20pm until 6am so the breast would be full of hind milk by 6. The green nappy occurs at around 9am.

[kissyfur]

Glad to hear B is happier Toomany

Well, we had our appt at the tongue tie clinic. Had a good chat with a lactation consultant, she said all the things I was describing could just be normal 4 month old behaviour, that she could be fussing because of a growth spurt, curiosity, or that she's just more efficient at getting milk out so feeds take less time. She watched us feed but predictably LO only fed for a minute or 2 then pulled off and wouldn't feed again. There was some clicking and her latch slipped a bit but she said she thought fast flow could be causing that. The tongue tie specialist looked at her lip and said there was a tie but it wasn't the worst she had seen and the best thing to do was to wait and she if it affected her as she got older. As she's gaining weight well and seems happy enough. She did say she wasn't really trained in dealing with lip ties though (not sure why not? Seems to me that TT & LT quite often go hand in hand)

Anyway, I'm quite glad I went, although LO is still refusing to feed again today

Sorry that was a bit long

[TooManyDicksOnTheDancefloor]

Not trained in dealing with lip ties, says it all really. I don't hold out much hope for my meeting with the specialist either but I know her lip is definitely stopping her from getting a good vacuum when she latches. B breaks off because when she swallows, gaps appear at the corners of her mouth so she loses suction.

It said in the guardian article that breasfeeding is all down to latch, every part of the mouth has to be in contact with the breast for it to work. It really depresses me that we are having to fight for this.

[kissyfur]

Me too I thought it was very interesting that on that FB group you mentioned there are loads of people in America having lip ties corrected by quick laser surgery with no need for a GA, and over here it's a 'big operation under a GA' why do they make it so hard? I know there is the place in Huddersfield you can go to privately, but if they can fix things quickly and easily in the private sector, why can't they in the NHS? If it does affect LO when she's older I will pay to have it fixed privately, but why should I have to?

We all know how good breastfeeding is for our babies, why is it a constant struggle to get the support we need to make it happen easily?

I am seriously considering training as a lactation specialist, it makes me so sad to hear of all these mums who want to BF but can't because they just don't get the support they need, and deserve. Maybe I could try and make a small difference

Sorry, rant over!