mild tongue tie/ upper lip tie but no nipple pain?

[Clarella]

this has been suggested and I'm asking for a referral but I've never really had any pain except a mildly cracked nipple. lo has all the associated issues though and we're looking into reflux at the mo. he certainly has a top lip tie and seems to have limited tongue motility. (according to an lll leader though only at mo through images I sent to her)

I have a top lip tie I realise and a gap in front teeth.

he's 14 weeks old and breast feeding can be distressing for both of us. he's exclusively breast fed.

I was having the same thoughts this morning, could I retrain as a lactation consultant? It really makes me want to do it too.

hi all - I feel like I could be a lactation specialist!!

just got back from seeing the bf guru of the north east - she was amaaaaaazing. saw his tie and really explained why it was a problem. helped me into biological nurturingposition with him and showed me an upside down winding technique (you'd have to see it!) he 'planks' a lot from the wind so it's trying to get him to relax and stretch his back out so it's more flexible.

she did explain how the tongue is the root of a lot - peristalsis starts at the tongue and goes all the way through the digestive system. she noted that it doesn't undulate properly and is trying to lift when he cries. it is actually quite common hence only bad ties being treated. however in the past ties were routinely cut and she said s Nigeria woman she knew said the 'midwife' from her village cut all the babies tongues at birth. they used to here too.

she said lip ties can be stretched - when playing with him just flip it up. and when tt is cut we're to run fingers round gums to encourage his tongue ti follow it side to side. she said he had a high pallette too which would flatten with continued .bf and a more flexi tongue. this flattening helps space the teeth to so the mouth isn't so crowded.

tongue ties do impact on dental health as you need mobility in the tongue to remove food etc.

however g also has a water infection (newcastle screen really well) which might also be causing issues so we've got antibiotics and a trip to hospital to be screened (newcastle just do that - think it's a pilot study)

so basically we're getting it snipped though she commented our consultant is conservative in the snipping.

I'm joining the LLL.

kissy sorry not seen this page - sorry you've had a hard time. was the lactation specialist lbclc? has a tongue tie been seen? when she cries what does her tongue do?

I hope I haven't led people up wrong path with the lip tie - the tongue tie has much more of an impact on feeding. if they go hand in hand it's likely theres a tongue issue. it's just finding someone who can identify it.

Well, I saw GP and HV today and neither had ever heard of lip tie or lactose overload. They were not in the slightest bit interested and clearly think I am neurotic. I will push for treatment if it affects his teeth or speech in the future. We have a referral to dietician. I am continuing the swap to ff and have fought today for a px for lactose free milk. I do not want to increase to full bf again as my mental health will not cope with that. I will feed him boob as long as he wants, but most of his feeds will be ff. My left boob has completely given up (it did with DD2 at 8 months too ) so I am accepting of this. He is now 5 months old so too little too late really. He will be starting solids soon, and using a cup.

I thought block feeding helped baby get the hind milk?

I'm so sorry vq. huge hugs. have you called the nct bf helpline or the lll help line? that's how I found about lactose overload and tt via lll. .gp and hv useless till saw gp who's daughter had it. this really is lbclc stuff.

I think the block feeding depends on the baby. if baby can effectively suck the breasts settle quickly. there's a different view though if you think about a hot tap. when it's not been used for a while it is cold till it runs for a bit. if it's recently been used its warm or hot even. so regularly visiting the breasts means warmer milk (warm as in hind milk, cold as in foremilk) so a baby struggling to suck might struggle to get through the fore milk. I was recently advised to let him drain one and offer second even if for a few sucks after block feeding (well generally just sticking to one side per feed). my breasts feel softer but whejbi express there's less fore milk as they're being used more frequently. iykwim.

I feel there needs to be s thread in here called - bf issues? learn about tongue tie. the guru I saw wishes it were taken more seriously

clarella if this were happening three months ago, I would do. I am past caring now. I cannot cope with anything else. I have tried all I can. We will hobble along on one boob until he rejects that. He is big enough to cope with formula now, as am I. I need to draw a line and move on. We will be ok.

Please could someone post or PM me details of NE guru and Huddersfield consultant? Having some issues here and wonder if may be related

Sorry I missed this thread before Clarella et al.

I've mentioned it on other threads so sorry if I'm repeating myself but this is my experience & story in case it helps anyone:

DS (now 21wks) lost more than 10% of bodyweight after birth and I was under a lot of pressure to top up with formula which I declined. He was ebf until 11 weeks and during that time gained weight but very slowly. I had no pain other than initial sore nips which passed. He had been checked for TT at birth by a mw and his tongue and latch were checked by mws, HVs, drs, paeds even the bf counsellor at the hosp and all said he was fine despite heart shaped tongue. Eventually same bfc said maybe he did have some restriction & referred us to another hosp with TT specialists. They checked and confirmed a PTT and said he had almost no tongue function and had been sucking with his mouth and flicking his tongue to get the let down. They said it was amazing he'd put on weight at all and he must have been working really hard (I could cry thinking of that). It was snipped at 11 wks but by then he had dipped well below the 0.4 line and even the TT people said they thought he needed formula to get his strength up so we have been mixed feeding since then and he is slowly moving up the centiles (now on 2nd). I was hoping to go back to ebf but despite an improved latch from the TT division and expressing it has not yet been possible - as he is now 5 months we will be starting solids soon anyway.

So to answer the initial questions in the op it is certainly possible to have a TT without experiencing pain. Also I would say it is still worth having it snipped but it was more traumatic than the younger patients seemed to find it. However the latch is so much better, feels totally different so I am sure it was worth it.

The TT specialists said exactly what others are saying, that it is incredibly common and mws used to just snip it in hosp or at a home visit with surgical scissors, but now people are just so used to formula it is missed.

Considering how much a higher bf rate would apparently save the NHS, it seems like a no brainer that mws need to be trained on these TTs and LTs urgently.

bloody hell Mrs Jupiter. your last line definitely rings huge bells. not to mention saving many kids dental issues.

oh but wait - the makers of infacol et al and formula would see a dip in their sales

I worry about age of lo he'll be 15 w on Monday :(

merangue will try to, am on phone

Glad you had a successful day clarella, your guru sounds great! Think the ladies I saw today were NHS workers, I probably should have asked! What is lblc? No tongue tie but a lip tie that they won't do anything about. I will get it done privately if LO has problems with teeth because of it.

Sorry you didn't have any success with your GP or HV VQ

It's been one hell of a day, feeling v emotional about BFing and the lack of support. Clarella your comment about formula companies etc is so true! It makes me so and

It's all training. Midwives now are expected like HV to be generalists in all and specialists in nothing.

Like you say the snip takes seconds but we had to be referred by a breastfeeding specialist to a surgeon!

So frustrating, I couldn't breastfeed as that process took 6 weeks and he couldn't latch.

VQ I am sorry but as you say, onwards and upwards,

kissy it is an extremely emotional thing this feeding lark. I have been positively anxious since I got home. Quite tearful too. We should not have to fight with doctors, basically telling them their job. I was questioning my sanity at one point, and have been seeking reassurance from DH that I am not imagining things. I think it is because these little creatures are so very precious we would happily die for them. When they are threatened in any way it affects us so very deeply.

Same here VQ, my DP is away at the mo and I'm finding it so tough having no-one to off load the days worries to (apart from the quiche of course). It's just awful when they scream and scream and you don't know how to help them.

ibclc oops I was wrong. international board of certified lactation ..... something. highest qualification

floods of tears earlier when I knew ds wanted a feed and basically gave up when let down came in :(

no I was right.... ibclc.... consultants.

Hi, I have a 17 week old just diagnosed with a tongue and lip tie. This thread sounds so familiar! She has all the normal feeding issues with poor latch/taking in +++ air, lots of wind, reflux, difficulty settling evening/night etc.
I have just booked an appointment with Dr Levinkind for Tuesday to assess her and laser both if necessary and was just wanting to know about peoples experience of his clinic, the procedure and how your baby was afterwards. I would really appreciate any information you can give me as I am feeling a little nervous as I cant find much direct information/reviews about him or the service.
Thank you very much.

Found it :) Although slightly different as O has been ff since the beginning. However it has been horrendous. Stressful, painful for her, constant feeding taking - taking hours to have a tiny amount, trapped wind, sick all the time. I feel like I've had a constant headache since she was born and I've found it so, so hard to cope sometimes. Spent many a day in tears. However no weight loss. In fact she's followed her line perfectly. But then I've spent the past 5 months (nearly) feeding her continuously so no surprise really!! Grr. Anyway been to the dentist. Thought after reading how seemingly useless the gp and hv can be the dentist may be a better option. He's going to support her and is with it and monitor her closely. The feeding I can manage, and I feel better knowing the dentist is ok side.

Wow that was long and self-indulgent :(

not at all self indulgent. we mums will do all we can to mmake sure our babies are fed. though you are ff, you describe the same issues I've had except that 1. as I had no pain to speak of it wasn't picked up and 2. I've blamed my 'over supply issues' - which think I had a bit of but also he wasn't effectively removing enough milk. so I blamed my strong let down and too much foremilk causing all the wind and green poos.

just been to an lll meeting which was great. met some other mums who are struggling and looks like there's a tt issue.

I'm going to book a consultation with the dentist who sorts out lip/tongue ties on Monday. It's driving me mad, we had a good feed at 12, she had a really good latch, I then winded her and she vomited up what looked like the whole lot .

clarella, belated answers to your questions: yes DD had a posterior TT. and yes I did go non dairy for ages but that made no visible difference (and no difference when i recently went back on dairy) whereas getting the TT snipped made a big difference.

DD was about 15 weeks when we got the TT snipped.

if you had oversupply, that may have masked the TT as your LO didn't have to have a great latch in order to get enough to be full. same happened with me I think.

oh toomany - hugs. it's so frustrating. you are so delighted with a good feed and yer it shouldn't need to be like that! and then how devastating ti see them in pain.

I was delighted at the lll meeting I went to this morn I was actually able to feed up and slightly laid back through to milk drunk face - not achieved milk drunk in public for weeks and only then after an initial battle.

thanks mini - he'll beexactly 15 on Monday. did you find latch improved? how long did it take for you? I know each baby is different tho. I'm v worried! yes I wonder how much was over supply against his ability to drain the breast of normal engorgement. though I had been expressing a bit more than was needed.

Hoping tomorrow goes well clarella, will be thinking of you and LO

Hugs Toomany, hope things are better today. Thinking in going to take LO to Huddersfield to get her lip tie done as well, it's a long journey for us but think it'll be worth it. Let us know how u get on x