ive been reading the 'contented little baby book' by gina ford and is it me but.........

[jayjaybaby]

hi im considering breast feeding and the woman seems to know whats she's on about but im confused about a few things
does she mean establish her routines whilst in the hospital
will i not succeed if i dont have an electric expressor
when she says tart with five minutes at each breast to start with does she mean literally just feed for ten minutes
any advice from you who have tried and suceeded or failed with method i'd love to hear from you as ireally want to everything i can to breast feed
thanks

I succesfully breastfed both my children

I didn't mind that they were sleepy to begin with

I fed them when they cried ..

I had a sneak at the tables in Baby Whisperer about understanding what a baby's signs meant

And I let it take a couple of months till I began to understand what different cries made

but by far the most important advice I would give someone planning on bf is to relax into it, take personal advice from bf counselors and respond to your baby's needs (demand lead) not follow a routine .. that is my belief .. I believe that rouines instilled as a 'this works for all' just patently won't

good luck and welcome

dh plays w/dd2 all the time before her nap. she just crashes out like a ton of bricks after having had her fill of playtime.

gina ford is basically the routine they used to do when they fed at 6, 10, 2, 6, 10 apart from she starts at 7 bcos we're too lazy nowadays to get up at 6

Hi JJB (she says wiping baby puke off baby, self and clothes). My ds1 is almost six months now and is exclusively breastfed.

When I was pregnant I was also convinced I would establish a routine from day 1 - HA. Now I realise I was just adding extra pressure and spending too much time wondering what I was doing wrong as my baby wouldnt fit the routines proposed.

I soon gave that up and just followed my baby's lead. Now the only routine we have is bedtime, which has helped to get him sleeping through the night.

He is a very happy, chilled baby and I now have no problem understanding what he needs. Because we dont have a slavish routine, we can take parts in loads of activities locally, and because he is BF, I can go anywhere and feed him at any time.

My best advice to you is to try and find some local mums who will have their babies at the same time as yours - the support and advice and experiences of my new friends has been invaluable. Nothing can beat personal experience - and that is the beauty of MN - someone on here will always be able to answer your questions with reference to personal experience. You can then find out what may work for you. There is no one size fits all solution...

Oh and BF can be really tough to start off with. It didnt come naturally for me, and it took time to establish - about 4 weeks in my case. Take all the help you can get from your MW and HV and join a local breastfeeding support group if you can. I did buy an Avent manual breast pump which is easy to use, but I hardly ever use it cause it is so much easier to just use the real thing! I would suggest that you dont bother buying one until you have established breastfeeding.

Hi JJB (she says wiping baby puke off baby, self and clothes). My ds1 is almost six months now and is exclusively breastfed.

When I was pregnant I was also convinced I would establish a routine from day 1 - HA. Now I realise I was just adding extra pressure and spending too much time wondering what I was doing wrong as my baby wouldnt fit the routines proposed.

I soon gave that up and just followed my baby's lead. Now the only routine we have is bedtime, which has helped to get him sleeping through the night.

He is a very happy, chilled baby and I now have no problem understanding what he needs. Because we dont have a slavish routine, we can take parts in loads of activities locally, and because he is BF, I can go anywhere and feed him at any time.

My best advice to you is to try and find some local mums who will have their babies at the same time as yours - the support and advice and experiences of my new friends has been invaluable. Nothing can beat personal experience - and that is the beauty of MN - someone on here will always be able to answer your questions with reference to personal experience. You can then find out what may work for you. There is no one size fits all solution...

Oh and BF can be really tough to start off with. It didnt come naturally for me, and it took time to establish - about 4 weeks in my case. Take all the help you can get from your MW and HV and join a local breastfeeding support group if you can. I did buy an Avent manual breast pump which is easy to use, but I hardly ever use it cause it is so much easier to just use the real thing! I would suggest that you dont bother buying one until you have established breastfeeding.

oops - novice!

jayjaybaby I know where you're coming from. When I was pregnant and planning to breastfeed, I was like 'how often?, how much?, generally how?' I was terrified the baby would starve, I had dreams that I would inadvertantly neglect my baby. I think that it part and parcel of being a first time mum. But I promise you it is true what they say, you will know what to do, you will know when your baby is hungry, you will get to know your baby better than anyone else (I didn't belive this when I was preggers)

As for the Gina Ford book, I've never read it and know it would put so much pressure on me I would go mad and not enjoy the precious first weeks/months of my baby's life. But then it works for some, and if once your baby is here it's useful, why not?

Sorry jjb, when I say 'you will know what to do', I'm talking generally about caring for your baby. Breastfeeding might take a while to establish, as its a skill. Good luck! :)

\link{http://www.nctms.co.uk/prodlist.asp?cat=69&scat=81\another good place to start looking for breastfeeding and other early days baby books}

I breastfed for 6 months and any routine before 3 months would have been impossible. This is because my baby had a massive growth spurt betweens weeks 3 and 8, growing from the 2% centile to above the 25%. Meant breastfeeding every half an hour and for up to 6 hours at a time. You just have to trust your baby I think, but some tips from books were helpful - knowing about fore milk and hind milk for example.

thank you all so much for your advice and support i have finished reeading the book and have decided when i have read a couple more books on the subject probably the best feeding one and one from the nct i will be fully informed and prepared
obviously this will probably all go out the window once the lo arrives but i'll feel better i dont think it will be a good idea to try and adhere my self to a strict programme as i can get a bit obsessive about things and im alll ready down to be watched lkike a hawk bythe hv and mw after the birth due to high numbers aof women in my family that suffered with pnd
i hve looked at all the links and will follow them through
once AGAIN thank you all

just hijacking the thread to reply to tiktok - only just read your comments, sorry!

i agree, gf would give me a severe reprimand for the way i used her book! :) but i found gf a very useful framework to work to. i'm the kinda gal who likes to know what the "rules" are - the idea of just playing it all by ear scared me silly! :)

and in terms of routine v demand feeding, i did and do feed on a pretty set routine. not saying it would work for everyone - and i'm very glad you're around, tiktok - have read your advice on many occasions! but it worked for us :)

Hi, CFG.....thanks for your comments :)

My main gripe is people who say 'GF worked for me' and then describe a hugely modified version of what the regime orders you to do (and they are 'orders'!). That is not 'GF working', but mothers finding out for themselves what keeps them and their babies happiest.

If all you (or anyone else) did is aim to feed your baby at certain times, and retained flexibility for when this was not convenient/enjoyable/what your baby needed, and you didn't

• time feeds
• express twice a day
• drink a glass of water at a certain time
• have breakfast (exact contents specified in the book) at a certain time
• play with your baby or cuddle him except at particular times and/or in particular circumstances
• etc etc etc

then you did not follow Gina Ford.

I really don't see why Gina Ford should get any credit for 'contented babies' when mothers have achieved this for themselves!

But does it matter, Tiktok? I'm one of the people who found GF very useful as a reference tool - as most baby books can be - to see what one possible routine would be. Just because I didn't follow her rules to the letter doesn't mean the book wasn't a great source of information and certainly doesn't mean that I can't recommend it. I didn't agree with everything written in The Baby Whisperer, but I still found it useful. I can kind of see why GF has got so mad with mn - not even the bf/bottle feeding debate is so polarised.

Satine - I don't mind people recommending books that have been useful to them. Why would I object to that? I have never said that the whole of the book has nothing to offer. I gather her advice on how to wash babies' woollies is fine, for example, and there are some useful tips on what clothing to buy for a baby in the first year.

I suppose what I am saying with my comments is that mothers should take the credit for producing their own 'contented babies', and not hand over accolades to childcare authors, especially if they haven't done what a particular author tells them to do :)

Haven't read the whole thread but...

... I don't see how you can just feed a newborn for ten minutes at a time. My six month old feeds for this time or less now at a sitting, but that's because she's older, stronger, more efficient at getting the milk out etc. When she was born, she would often feed for forty minutes at a time. Twenty minutes, if I was lucky. I had my breasts out all the time. Don't get the expressing thing, either - I just put her to the breast everytime she wanted it. And yes - I did go slightly loopy during growth spurts, when she was waking five + times a night, but these did usually only last three days or so.

Good luck. I've found the Kellymom.com site very useful.

the thing is satine, Gina Ford's CLBB is NOT a reference guide, very specifically. It is sold, written and marketed as a complete, step by step guide to exactly what to do with your baby on five minute timescales. The author doesn't say - do bits of this, see what works for you. You may be confident and experienced enough to pick and choose bits of it, but many first time mothers aren't. And if they aren't able to follow it to the letter, then that might be disheartening at a time when to become disheartened can be very hard to cope with.
that's why I wouldn't recommend her book.

I followed GF (with a large pinch of salt) successfully. Until your milk comes in, the 5 mins feeding every 3 hours did not work for me! He needed feeding all the time and I jus took the lead from my ds.

Once my milk came in I tried to follow GF's feeding and sleep times, as a GENERAL guide. It was great for me and I BF according to her routines no prob. but then ds was and always has been a v content baby.

I started with a hand held pump and quickly moved onto an Ameda lactaline double elecirc which was far better and quicker

good luck

Am I right in thinking that the message of the book is that if you miss bits out and pick and choose, you've only got yourself to blame for not having a contented little baby because you didn't follow the programme properly? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that is the implicit (or even explicit) message of the book, that would be very disempowering for first time mothers, I think.

what are you doing?
are you all crazy?
this must stop!

I think it is how you choose to inerpret it. I always saw it as a good guide and source of reference.

Sorry. Just trying to find out if an impression I've got is correct.

You are right, Caligula.

I quote from the book here, so there is no risk of litigation.

"these routines are created to meet the natural sleep and feeding routines of all healthy, normal, young babies" (my emphasis)

"Parents are always amazed at how easily their baby falls into my routines" (my emphasis)

Case histories and Q&As in the book bring mothers back all the time to following everything in the book to the letter. This book is designed, as the author says, for all babies...whereas most parents realise that 'all' babies are not the same and have different needs. Some families do 'work' better with a routine, and some miserable babies with miserable mothers can get into a spiral of misery, and a more structured day can help....but the idea that these routines, and/or a structure, have to be the same for everyone from the very start is (ahem) not supported by the research into babies' needs or breastfeeding physiology.

I got really depressed when dd1 didn't do the routines as I thought that meant she wasn't normal or healthy for a while

????? for suzywong!