Well it's official I am s**t at BF and/or have dud breasts

[HelloBear]

Rant alert!
BF my second dc, I ebf my DD and it was agony for weeks and weeks and i had repeated mastitis. But I persevered and bf her for a year.

DS is 4 days old and despite everyone reassuring me that it will be easier this time i am once again in agony and already bleeding from one side. Grrrrrrrrrrr!

I know it's the latch blah blah blah. Seriously how do I manage to get it so wrong?

Sob, sob, sob...

Hi, sorry cant offer any advice I'm afraid, but just wanted to offer my support; it sounds agony what you're going through. It's not your fault though! Just because bf is supposed to be "natural" does not mean its easy; you still need help & support from HCP. Have you had a visit from a bf counsellor to check your latch? Please don't suffer in silence- you did really well with your first dc & just need some support for your 2nd. Good luck!

My first DC was partially tongue tied and ripped my nips to shreds for a week before I got help. Tongue tie was snipped, but I had to express for 5 weeks while my skin healed up. Got her back on in the end and BF until 18 months.

See a BF counsellor, and don't stop asking for help until you get what you need. Get them to check for tongue tie too.

Good luck, I feel your pain!

Bugger the HV, you need to get the experts in. Go to a le leche league meeting, or ring their local contact. www.laleche.org.uk/pages/groups/groups.htm There is also a magical thing called an IBLC. International Board Certified Lactation Consultant. www.lcgb.org/ Get one. You are not crap at this, but you need help. Could be loads of reasons, different from your first child, but you need someone to watch you feed for a while. Get someone to ring up these contacts then drive you there. Good luck x hang in there!

Well feck, my links are all rubbish. Sorry.

I used to attend a bf clinic which was run by Surestart. They were brilliant, and ran clinics every day in different parts of my home town. Try getting some support.

I used nipple shields, and changed to the rugby hold when things got sore. I had nipple trauma with dd1 :( just ouch! They helped me with positioning, and I learnt some good techniques.

Do as pp has suggested, and getting ur ds checked for tongue tie too.

I wonder if your first DC had a tongue tie? Pain and repeated mastitis can be symptoms ... and tongue tie runs in the family so you never know, could be that again now.

Second the advice to see a BF counsellor or lactation consultant (IBCLC) in person.

Personally I found the early days with DD2 just as shit as with DD1.
Difference was she at least knew what to do.
DD1 never learnt.

Thanks ladies. 3 am is not a good time to post.

Bleeding from both now:(
I think what upsets me is that I could muster the energy and ride through the pain with my DD to sort it out, but there is no way I can repeate that now with a toddler to also look after. So I have until my DH goes back to work to get things better.

So plan of action:
Spend this morning with tits out in air and curtains closed, oh the dignity.
Bf clinic this pm to get my useless fucking latch checked.
Another one tomorrow with a BFN expert if needs be.
Eat copious amounts of cake, dairy milk, thorntons, etc

But DH out buying bottles now just in case

Oh I will also pester all about checking for younger tie.

Go straight to the experts about the possible tongue tie issue matters they can help identify it and put you in touch with knowledgeable help in your area]]

look how many hcps don't know how to identify it

In the meantime, you can try latching like this She talks about lip ties, but the same technique is useful for tongue ties too (very rare to have a lip tie without a tongue tie anyway)

If this baby does turn out to be tied, it is very possible that your older one is also tied it is really hereditary.

Oops, that first link should say Milk Matters

Well strike of luck, saw a health visitor today who took the time to listen to my history and watch my latch. She said that latch seemed ok and thou she thinks there is no tounge tie she is not happy for it not to be checked. So she's referred me to feeding clinic with consultant at hospital!

Obviously not going to make things immediately better but at least it can be checked.

In the mean time, taking one feed at a time.

Good that you can see someone else HelloBear- at least you'll know for sure if it is tongue tie or not.

Btw, air drying is not recommended for sore nipples now-moist wound healing is better as it stops scabs from forming which then tend to get sucked off by the baby.

Hope you can hang on in there for now.

Don't underestimate the damage that a tongue tie can do.

I thought I had it hard feeding DS. Then DD came along with a tongue tie. No one really knows (except DH) just how hard it was. My god, I had mastitis so bad I felt like I had the flu (twice), I was feeding dd constantly, she couldn't settle for more than 20 mins. Then to top it all she has reflux and dairy intolerance so no easy solution of using formula.

But we got the tie snipped after going backwards and forwards between "experts" (who didn't realise how bad the tie was and some said she was fine) until I got a lactation consultant in who snipped it 10 mins after checking dd. I could have wept with relief and anger at the 12 weeks of shit I put up with. I will say that TruthSweet was one person on MN who helped me see that the tie was the likely problem. For that I am forever grateful.

Beware that the feeding consultant might not be right either!

some helpful stuff here

Also, have a look at the tongue when he cries. It should lift up quite high. If it doesn't, or it curls up at the sides, then there is probably a tie.

Also check for a lip tie article and pics here

If there is a lip tie, there is pretty much certainly going to be a tongue tie, usually a posterior tie. Sure, there will be somebody out there who has lip tie and no tongue tie, but most often they come together.

iggly your description of feeding with tt sounds just like how it was with my DD, it was a good 10 weeks till the pain went (even then it occasionally cane back). 3 lots of anti-bs, temp upto 39.9, and flu like symptoms. My DH watched on in horror as I struggled.

He is already really, really worried I'm heading the same way and is now demanding he introduces a bottle to give me a break (I'm happy to do this with expressed milk).

But can't help feeling so depressed that after only 4 days my nipes are now red rore and bleeding. I want to wail childlike 'it's not fare!'.

Seeing Mw tomorrow and just know I'll blub like a baby to her.

I've resurrected my old mantra 'one feed at a time'. All I aim for is to do the next feed.

maw - thanks will keep that in mind and be a pain in the ass assertive mother and ask LOTS of questions about their knowledge/experience.

Will look at your links in the morning also.

Also now remembered that wet healing is the way to go, I think it was gelonet (???) I used last time, of to google and purchase.

HelloBear you have so much more experience than me as I've literally just had my first child. But a combination of being left alone in the hospital and getting the latch wrong from the beginning AND DS being diagnosed with tongue tie has meant I wrecked my nipples within about two hours of him being born. Massive welts, bleeding, and me determined to push on with a bad latch (not realising of course!) led MW to say she'd never seen nipples so bad.

The first night we got home, he didn't feed for nine hours. I had no idea what I was doing. MW was horrified with me.

It's now day 4, I've lived in fear of DS not meeting the right weight loss but I've struggled through the every-two-hour feeds using coconut oil on my nipples. It's still agony but they are healing. It also enabled me to express for at least half of those minimum feeds - you sound like you are doing such a great job but maybe expressing will give your nipples a chance to heal, while the coconut oil does its job? Seriously it's the elixir of the gods. Poor, poor you. I've been telling myself - I can express and still give my son my milk.

I found these a lifesaver! They keep clothing away from the cracks but keep the humidity so nipples don't dry out.
www.philips.co.uk/c/avent-baby-breastfeeding/breast-care-6-pcs-scf157_02/prd/

I also think your dc might be tongue tied - maybe posterior? I had same prob with mine

I love MN :) thanks for all tour responses. Orin where can I get coconut oil from? It sounds like you had (having!) a horrific time, well done! Oh and dint beat yourself up about the first night I remember with my DD letting her go 6 hours day 3 and my sis gently explaining this was not ok (read screeching at me).

Feeling increadibly down this morning (I know it is baby blues also). But my DH gave DS a bottle of expressed milk, which he took like a pro. I expressed on the 'bad' side while he was doing this, so thought great will have a break. But at the next feed on this side he just tore the skin off so now have a patch of open skin.

Going to try some different holds next time.

Sorry for typos on phone!

Different holds, sorting the latch etc will not work if you've got a tie to deal with. Believe me!!

Get it diagnosed and get it snipped.

Same goes for you Orenishii.

Don't think you can work around it. You cannot. Believe me, you cannot.

What Iggly said.

Where are you based?