Bottle nursing and coming to terms with FF from the very beginning

[raininginbaltimore]

I am 32 weeks with DC2. I have Bipolar disorder, this is a planned pregnancy with the support of my Psychiatrist although I have recently changed.

Old Psych had always been happy for me to give BF a go (I BF my son for 6 weeks, until I became too unwell, although this was before my diagnosis). Turns out he was quite blase about a lot and not really following guidelines. However, new Psych wanted me to be aware of risks which are quite high unmedicated.

I can't take my medication (lithium) and BF and they aren't happy to try new anti-psychotics in a post-natal woman. So I have been advised to only aim for a few days BF and then FF. Actually I think they would prefer I FF from day one. The main reasin being that my medication could take a minimum of 6 weeks to start working anyway, so waiting until I am symptomatic is too dangerous. The other issue is sleep, which is a major trigger of puerpal psychosis (I have 1 in 2 chance of getting this) and FF allows me more rest.

I am gutted. I really, really wanted to BF. I feel like a bit of a failure, like it is the one thing I should be able to do for my baby. I already feel slightly irrational at the idea of other people feeding her. Someone has suggested bottle nursing to me, has anyone done this? There is obviously extra faff and I know FF isn't poison but I am really upset.

I need to snap out of it and get my head round it. But then every time I go to antenatal clinic to see consultant the BF ladies are there (as they should be!) giving out badges, asking me if I am planning on BF. And I have to say no and tell them why (in front of whole waiting room). It isn't their fault, but it makes me want to cry.

ANyone got any tips on making this work from the beginning?

You don't have to tell them why you're not breastfeeding, it's none of their business. Look - I understand the need to grieve, I really do. You wanted to BF, and because you are ill, you can't. I want to clear all the shit out of our spare room - but because I am recovering from a slipped disc, I can't lift anything. These are just facts, and tgere's no choice involved. Life isn't perfect. I've never heard of bottle nursing, but if you want to, do it.

Oh Raining. I really feel for you. I remember your name from another thread (Counting Crows!) but can't think which. If you need to FF from birth for your medication, do .Your baby needs a mum who is healthy. I am incredibly pro-breastfeeding, but your health must come first. If there isn't other medication you can/want to explore, just go ahead.

One suggestion if you wanted, is to give colostrum? That could just be a couple of days and is like an immune boost for your baby. Would that help you feel better about moving straight to ff? You don't have to of course, but maybe it would help you make peace with your decision? You have no reason at all to feel guilty, but I know a lot of the feelings around this type of thing aren't solely logic based!

What do you mean by bottle nursing? Do you mean ff in a way that is as close to breast feeding in style as possible? I think this is a good idea. IIRC Dr Sears has some stuff on this, but the main principles are simply that you don't hand the baby round to lots of people to feed. You, your partner (assuming you have one), maybe one other close person (except in emergencies). They are the only people who feed the baby in the beginning. You also feed on demand and don't worry about encouraging the baby to finish the bottle- he just takes what he wants and stops, just like a breastfed baby would. TBH, a lot of women do it all automatically, but FF is oddly suited to old fashioned ways of doing things! You could also add in lots of extra snuggles by using a sling/your partner using a sling?

As for the breastfeeding support women, well you don't have to tell the truth you know . Just say yes, if they press say that you successfully breastfed your first and move on. There is no obligation to air your medical history in front of the waiting room!

Hi raining, congratulations on your pregnancy and I'm sorry you are feeling sad about the situation. Please please please don't feel bad about what's happening. what is absolutely the most important thing is that you are well to look after and enjoy your baby. Are you off your meds while pregnant? Have you thought about expressing and freezing your colostrum while you're pregnant? You could build up quite a good store and give it to your baby for the first couple days. the more you express the more you'll make too so you may be able to get a fair bit. I've had a quick look at bottle nursing and it looks great, really positive and loving. and never forget that what babies need is love and lots of it and you are the one to give it, whatever milk she has. good luck. x

raining so sad for you :(

Perhaps there is a way you can discuss the option of bf with your doctors - check out lithium here: toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/htmlgen?LACT. Things are not clear cut. The evidence linked to there seems to suggest the risk is minimal, or unclear, esp in babies who are not pre-term or otherwise vulnerable - share these links with your team and see what you come up with.

As for the bf supporters, they need to know not to approach you - it's intrusive and not fair for you. Can you spot them before they spot you and ask them quietly not to ask you?

I googled bottle nursing - I'm not sure what they think people who FF normally do, stick them in a room by themselves with a bottle by the sounds of it

I FF DD from birth after trying unsuccessfully to BF DS - I actually found it more pleasant to FF, while BF I couldn't see DS a lot of the time, lol - not and be comfy at the same time. That wasn't an issue with FF as you can sit or lie in any position you want to, so it's much easier to snuggle in with a baby to feed.

DP did feed her occasionally, but that was it - visitors don't tend to snatch a feeding baby from you or anything.

Demand feeding works pretty much the same with FF as with BF, sometimes they have little and often, sometimes they have a massive feed and sleep for ages, just go with what your baby wants and don't get hung up on how much they've had.

Should add that ff should be as loving and as bonding as bf and as warm a connection....all the stuff that comes easily with bf can be done with ff, you just have to work at it :) That is, no passing the baby around, and lots of skin to skin, responsive feeding, 'paced' bottle feeding.

Everything tabula said. I FF number 2 from day 1 and no regrets.

Simply stay away from "mean" lactivists - those who do not support the feeding of your baby are not worth the energy.

Have your partner and mw on hand to tell people to bugger off.

And honestly, a few months down the line it'll all seem irrelevant anyway.

You are feeding your baby and that is something you should never be ashamed about. There are so many shitty things people do to children, feeding them is not one of them!

All the best! X

To go against the knowledgeable tiktok here, it's absolute Bobbins that you can't "bond" unless you bf. It's insulting and inaccurate towards not only FF's, but to adoptive parents, foster parents, mastectomy "survivors", fathers, grandparents, siblings etc., etc. It's just damned illogical!

Isn't that what Tiktok said Alpine? She said it should be as loving and bonding as breastfeeding.

YANBU. You have every right to FF if you choose.

In terms of perhaps mitigating the upset that you're feeling, would you consider using donor milk, rather than formula? I don't know the ease or the expense with which one can purchase breastmilk, but know that I've read about adopted babies/babies born via surrogate to gay fathers etc using donor milk, shipped to them.

I am very pro-breastfeeding but also know the horrors of post-partum mental illness. Obviously you have made very informed and sound decisions as to the best way forwards and you sound like you're doing everything you can to keep both you and your baby healthy in what is a difficult situation - you have my greatest respect and I hope everything goes well for you.

Read my post, Alpine - I actually said the opposite of what you claimed I said :(

can it not be on your medical notes that you've been advised not to, and therefore can't, and would prefer not to be asked in public? Perhaps ask for it to be written down very clearly WHAT your feeding choice is/has to be, and WHY, and that you don't want it questioned? Congratulations on the birth of your baby, OP

Sorry, OP, I thought your baby was with us already. I see what you mean now, and should read more carefully. Apologies. But as I suggested, ask for this info to be clearly stated on your medical notes so that you aren't asked in hospital/at clinic and don't feel upset? I was in a similar position with my anti-convulsant drugs, though that was eventually cleared by my specialist as OK but meant me changing drugs and having a breakthrough seizure. I think you've made a sensible decision based on advice given and deserve the space and support to enjoy the rest of your pregnancy, and I really hope you get to do that.

I understand your sadness, but you must keep yourself healthy as a priority. Lots of great posts here. I second wearing baby in a sling, I love it, so does she & it makes me feel closer to her.

I had to make a decision to give up bf for my health due to pnd. still feel sad but must concentrate on the positives. Dd is thriving. Best wishes x

what tiktok said, its worth checkign and getting more advice re your meds and bfeeding, it may be possible and if you really want to bfeed then worth looking into.

if its not possible then bottlefeeding can be just as bonding as bfeeding, ih ave bfed three of mine and then with no 4 and no5 i switched to bottlefeeding aftera few months (with ds4 it was because i had post natal psychosis) anyway it was just as bonding, i snuggled right up wiht my baby just as if i was bfeeidng, held them cuddled right up to my breast, used a sling, still did everything the same as before but milk came from a bottle rather than my breast, honeslty it was fine, i did feel very sad but have accepted that i did what i had to, ds4 is 4 now and just as bonded with me as his bfed brothers.

your mh is paramount, so please dont beat yourself up about not bfeeding, get the facts, make your decision and enjoy your baby!

and yes i would say it could go on your notes why you are bottlefeeding if that is what you do, then midwives etc will know not to question it.

good luck, hope your pregnancy goes smoothly and enjoy those newborn cuddles! :)

OP, have you tried speaking to Wendy Jones, the pharmacist at The Breastfeeding Network? She should be able to give you some good advice regarding medication.

And Alpine, I'm not sure what you were reading but tiktok did NOT slam FF.

BF is all well and good and it is great that people are encouraged more to give it a go.

However, it is far far far more important for your baby that you are in a good state of mental health. This is much more crucial than beating yourself up over what sort of milk is going in his tummy. Puerpal psychosis is a serious illness and messing around with medication at a time when you are more at risk of mental health issues is not worth the risk. Formula isn't poison, your baby will grow and thrive on it and you will bond just the same. It's ok to feel sad about not being able to breastfeed but at the end of the day, everyone just wants to do what is best for their baby. For many of us, what is best is breastfeeding. For you, what is best is having a stable and healthy mother caring for the baby. Not one who has been hospitalized with psychosis. If that happened you'd probably have to stop breastfeeding anyway I reckon.

if you dont want other people feeding your baby that is fine. you can do most of the bottle feeding yourself and get your partner to do some night feeding so you can sleep. Just because a baby is bottle fed doesnt mean he has to be passed around and fed by anyone who fancies a go. it is right that it is the parents doing the feeding.

You are not a failure. you are going to feed your baby and ensure you are in a fit state to meet the rest of his needs too. That is a success, not a failure.

So for you raining. The main thing is you and your babies health. Those bf supporters should not be there in the antenatal clinic, asking personal questions which I would not even ask people I know . Just ignore them, or tell them that you do not wish to resond

Thanks. I know it will be fine, and it isn't everything. I am just a bit gutted. The people at the antenatal clinic are breastfeeding angels? I think they are a peer to peer support group. They mean well, but they ask if you are planning on bf. Last time I said I wasn't sure due to medication, so she asked what medication etc. I realise I just need to be more forceful. They mean well, I think they are doing a good thing as the hospital is in an area of low BF rates.

Tiktok, I have looked at info on Lithium and will talk to the team. I suppose my main issue is that I personally have to have regular blood tests to check kidney, liver and thyroid function as lithium isn't a harsh substance. So I am uncomfortable.

I will definitely talk to dh about making sure only me and him feed the baby, I think my worry was when I was better with ds and he was ff he just seemed to get passed around.. Sadly when I was well I wasn't bothered (I was very detached) but when I was well I wanted to be the one feeding him.

There is no reason for a ff baby to get passed around if you don't want him to be. I loathe that 'can I have a go' approach to infant feeding. It seems to be very common in the older generation particularly - the number of threads you see on here where women are being encouraged to ff so that their MIL/M/whoever can 'have a go at feeding the baby'. Get your DH on side and then get him to do all the work of saying no for you .

Also I am the only one to feed my baby, she just wants me really. Don't pass baby around, you're the mummy, they feed mainly with their mummy, that is the way it is meant to be. Still, helps if the dad can help too!

Well raining you don't have to answer them if they ask. We had no such groups at our antenatal clinic

I had to FF because of a few things but I got very ill and unable to battle on with bf and latching problems.

I know how you feel as I felt awful really guilty and spend days crying. I think its only natural to feel that way especially if you have your heart set on it.

But just think that if you review this with Drs and its really in your best interests to FF because of the drugs you need to take, its so much better than making yourself very ill. It is much more important that you are in good health.

I had no issues with bonding whatsoever, and I rarely let anyone else give DS a bottle apart from DP when I wanted a break.

I think its good to think all this through now and get your answer about the lithium and then you wont have to go through all this when the baby comes, hope you will be ok with whatever happens..

Firstly why not establish if you can breastfeed on your meds so you know where you stand? The bfn are fantastic and can give you lots of help and information. In my experience regular consultants are not experts in medication and breastfeeding so please do contact the breastfeeding network.

If you can't bf, then please do not feel down about it. You need to put your health first. You can have a snuggly ff relationship. I did with my first baby. Don't get caught up with feelings of guilt, it is not worth it.

If you can bf from a meds perspective, then you might think about mix-feeding if you are worried about lack of sleep worsening your condition. It might be the best of both worlds.

I bf my second on meds (not the same ones) but do understand where you are coming from on the any risk is too much risk aspect. Not all medication transfers to milk in the same way and just because a medication is risky to you doesn't necessarily mean that it is risky to your baby.

Good luck and remember however you end up feeding your baby, you are their mum and they love you no matter how they are fed.