Very unsettled BF newborn. Please help.

[beginnings]

I don't honestly know whether she's normal and I'm just having hormone overdrive or whether there is something more I can do for her. Should point out that she's seen the GP twice (two different doctors) and both have said she's healthy. She's currently nine days old, is EBF and lost only 6% of her birth weight at Day Five.

Our issue is that she is just SO unsettled. She fed 10 times yesterday including two periods of cluster feeding. The longest she fed for was about 20 mins and the shortest (as part of the cluster feed) was about 3. She averages around 12-15. She feeds ok, it doesn't hurt me, is peeing and pooing (explosively) lots so there's definitely something going in! One of the GPs told me to feed her as upright as possible and I am. She also told me to keep her upright for 30 mins after feeding, and I am. She tends to burp a couple of times and may or may not fart/poo. All sounds good, right?

Problem is that after all of that, she is just so unsettled. She squirms and cries an wriggles like its really uncomfortable and this just goes on and on. Often no more wind comes up. Yesterday she was up from 1030 until we put her in the pram at 1445. Isn't that to long for a baby of this age? Once we got home she only fed for a few mins before the squirming started again. Often when she first wakes up she'll do a big burp (sometimes with sick), or a poo. Does this mean that she's been uncomfortably holding wind all that time? The GP has given us Gaviscon to see if that makes a difference. He's said we should try that for a week or too and if it doesnt work, try something else i.e Infacol.

I've also tried massaging her belly but that doesn't seem to help.

This is epic, sorry, but can anyone give more advice on making her more comfortable. I'm not so much looking for a routine, just a way of making my little girl comfortable.

Hi congratulations first and foremost!
Your little girl sounds absolutely normal. In your own words, she feeds well, poos, wees and bring up wind like clockwork. The only issue is the crying. Well this what newborns do! Only a few days ago she was inside you in a protected and totally different environment. Now she's in a place where there's lots of light and stimulation and she doesn't know what to make of if.
Colic doesn't necessarily mean stomach pain or wind. It just means fussiness for no apparent reason but within normality. I would not give my DC infant Gaviscon this early and especially not in the circumstances you describe. If she cries it my be that she's tired and overstimulated and doesn't know how to wind down by herself.
Just cuddle her and try swaddling. Shush and rock her gently.

Congrats on your new DD. Sorry that things aren't going as well as they could be. :( How are the feeds going, does she seem OK when you are feeding her?

There are some ideas here that you might like to try.

Is there an LLL group nearby that you can get to? Or you could phone up if you need some more ideas as to what could be wrong.

Do you have a sling?

Thank you so much for responding so quickly and sorry for all the mistakes in my OP!! I had my DD on me and was on the iPad.

Olimpia your post had me in tears. She is so gorgeous and much wanted. She is the result of a fourth go at IVF and after two miscarriages. I'm just so overwhelmed. I'm dreading DH going back to work and being on my own with her as after a couple of hours of crying I find myself in such a tizz.

We are swaddling and I can calm her for short periods. The thing is that I'm not sure what are feeding cues and what is just being upset. I'm happy to feed but is there a possibility I'm making her more uncomfortable by feeding her lots and lots??

Thanks for the links EauRouge. I'll take a look. Feeding seems to be going well and she's generally calm. Towards the end of the day she gets a little frantic when trying to latch but does so successfully. As I said, she's excreting lots, and feeding up to 10 times a day so seems to be getting a lot.

As an example, she went down, swaddled into her Moses basket 25 mins ago and is already squirming quite uncomfortably, on and off, but isn't waking.

beginnings, glad you are feeling a bit better.

You say :

" She fed 10 times yesterday including two periods of cluster feeding. The longest she fed for was about 20 mins and the shortest (as part of the cluster feed) was about 3. She averages around 12-15."

This is normal. Many newborns feed more, in fact :) You said 10 times yesterday - on the low side, so don't worry about feeding more if she indicates she wants to.

" She feeds ok, it doesn't hurt me, is peeing and pooing (explosively) lots so there's definitely something going in!"

This is *normal"

"One of the GPs told me to feed her as upright as possible and I am. She also told me to keep her upright for 30 mins after feeding, and I am. She tends to burp a couple of times and may or may not fart/poo. All sounds good, right?"

Yes - I don't think the upright or keeping her upright is significant or necessary, but it won't do any harm :) I wonder if you have high expectations of what a newborn might do? The 'natural' or default position for a newborn is next to mum, sleeping or feeding, snuggled close up enough to smell, hear, touch each other. They are hard-wired to prefer this, and some babies will squirm and cry and be unsettled if this does not happen...how else can they tell you something is not right?:) If she is just squirming in her basket, though, but staying asleep, that's just baby squirming.....normal. If she was uncomfortable she would wake.

She needs to be fed responsively, according to the cues she makes. She will regulate her own intake so don't worry about feeding lots.

A call to any of the bf helplines will give you a chance to discuss more and I'm sure they will help.

And a bit taken aback at Gaviscon for a newborn.

The ingredients aren't absorbed so it's not like a 'real' medicine - but why put something in a newborn's stomach they don't need, and which is a hassle, and when the baby is behaving normally.......

How has she been at night?

As a veteran of two unsettled babies I would say experiment with what will get her to sleep. Some babies are nightmares in the day in the moses basket. My ds would never really settle in it for any length of time in the day. He would sleep in the pram and we did a lot of walking as a result. He needed movement.

Also both my unsettled ones like to comfort suck without milk. I have the first a dummy and she eventually became a thumb sucker. Second one I held off on dummy and he found his thumb as well.

And one more thing, don't blame yourself. In between
I had a really placid one. Didn't do anything different. The other two just needed a bit more support and input as babies.

I agree about gaviscon. I wouldn't have given my nbs that. Not meaning to sound judgey but most nd babies wont need anything but bm, sometimes just a bit of tweaking.
Re the keeping her upright - I thought you do this to stop them being sick but yea I suppose it might help with preventing painful trapped wind.

It's v early days and what's going on behind the scenes is an amazing hormone conversation between your body and yur baby's to ensure milk levels are enough. Day 9 is early on in this process and you may find things settle down in a few days anyway.

Have a look and see if there is a local latch in group you could go to. Your children's centre should be able to tell you. I ran one and will be again soon. They wre mostly attended by anxious new mums - you will feel better I'm sure just chatting to others feeling the same.

Massie anxiety with a nb is unfortunately v normal and it's an indicator that your protective mothers instincts are working properly

Good luck and well done x

I wonder does the GP suspect reflux with the gaviscon? DS had reflux and we were advised to keep him upright after a feed for at least 20-30mins too. The squirming and writhing sounds familiar too, although DS wasn't diagnosed until 8 weeks.

Tiktok thank you :) I'm very grateful for that perspective. I am a perfectionist. I do love a good straight forward answer. She's not going to give one, right? After her midnight feed last night, she wouldn't settle so I brought her into bed. I woke up an hour later and she had her arms wrapped around my wrist :). She was with me until after her 4am feed at which point she went into the Moses basket quite happily until seven.

Franup it's hard to consistently judge nights as she's so little (yes, I recognise I'm making all your points for you!!) but last night she fed at 12, 4 and 7am. The previous night, she added a quick feed in at 1.30 but that was it. That doesn't feel too bad.

The Gaviscon doesn't feel enitrely comfortable to me...I may think about it for a couple of days.

We tried a dummy last night, she wasn't having any of it!!

I'm sorry I made you cry
I was just trying to help but sometimes difficult to convey ideas through a talk board without sounding harsh. So sorry

Cross posted with whippingirl and dizzycow63.

Whippingirl, thanks. That helps. The protective mother bit in particular. I was worried that wasn't strong enough but it seems to be growing every day.

Dizzycow63, it was us that wondered about reflux. We have a few friends who have had babies with it. As Tiktok said, since Gaviscon isn't a real medicine, the doctor said it was worth a try although very much as a diagnostic tool rather than any real conviction that she has a problem.

Where do you ladies stand on waking her to feed? She last started a feed at 7.09. Should I wake her now? She obviously does feed, at least a little, at least every four hours. Should I be encouraging once every three hours during the day? Or is it that she'll settle as she gets older and both of us just have to ride this out?v

Everyone else has already given great advice, so all I wanted to say is massive congratulations! What a journey you've been on to get your DD. I wish you joy :)

The feeding lots sounds normal. You're doing a brilliant job. I wonder, have you had her checked for tongue tie? My nephew recently had his divided at 6 weeks after having been diagnosed with reflux. It was a posterior one so the numerous people who had looked in his mouth missed it. Have you seen a lactation consultant? Amazingly my nephew is like a different baby since having his divided.

Lots of good advice on this thread already, my 2 cents would be for you to relax.
You're doing fine! But if you get stressed your baby will pick up on that stress and become agitated, the more panicky I got the worse the crying and being unsettled got.

No no Olimpia it was your kindness and pragmatism that made me cry! It was what I needed to hear :) that my baby is normal. In fairness, it doesnt take much at the moment

She woke up about 30 mins ago,fed for 15 and is now asleep in my arms. I probably should wake her and change her, I think we might enjoy the cuddles for a bit longer...

Thank you Showtunesgirl and ContintentalKat :)

definitemaybe the HV is coming on Monday. I might get her to have a look. Thanks.

Oh phew! Thank you!
Just to add that in the very early days putting her to breast every 2 to 2 1/2 hours even though she doesn't give apparent signs of hunger is probably a good idea. They can only take so much each feed so by not letting her go for more than 2 to 2 1/2 hours you ensure she keeps hydrated and well fed.
It is difficult in the beginning to tell for sure if they squirm for hunger or tiredness. Sometimes it will be really obvious to you as sometimes it won't. Don't worry, we'll be been there before and in time you will keen to "read" her signals like no-one else.
It may be that constant feeding is making her reflux and digestion harder. Some babies are happier with feeding every 2 hours during the day and cluster feeding at night rather than being on the boob all the time.
Funally, enjoy every minute! They grow up so fast!

Still cuddling......will change her when next she wakes :)

She seems to have herself on a two to three hour feeding cycle so I'm pretty confident she's hydrated enough.

Another thing that's making me tears...finally being able to use the wisdom of MN for these questions and support.

Thank goodness for Justine and Carrie setting it up!!

My two are now grown up, but I remember DS1 being a very fussy newborn. Our GP gave me some good advice. This was to feed, feed, feed and when that didn't stop the crying, to hold him closely up on my shoulder and sing or hum. If that didn't work, then I should hold him like that and move around, rocking him. As a last resort, to hold him so his head was close to mine, rock gently and hum. That one did the trick!

The other thing that worked well was him lying on his Dads chest, skin to skin. But then, I like that one too! Always works when I'm upset! Something about the heartbeat :)

Hi beginnings, I'm on day 20 with my newborn and it all sounds very much like yours at day 10 Definitely enjoy the cuddles, I find myself feeling like I should be putting her down when she sleeps so I can go do something but today I just sat with her and it was so delicious, I think it's important to remember to get them in.
I don't have anything to add on the BFing front, but I did want to encourage you to try to relax on the 'perfectionist' thing. This is my 2nd child, but with my 1st I developed PND and during counselling the therapist said something that really stuck: "the perfect mother is like the perfect communist state, they both only exist in theory". I can understand the anxiety and wish to get things 'right', I suffered 3 miscarriages before this precious girl came along and around day 10 had some serious meltdowns. The tears and fears are easing for me now, and she is doing less cluster feeding as well, although I know from DS that there will be fairly regular occurrences of it as she goes through little growth spurts and decides she wants more. It's just a way of getting your supply up, welcome them as giving you a great indication that your little one is growing bigger and stronger

Hi Beginnings,

Firstly, congratulations on your new arrival. I should probably say that I'm not an expert but am still BF DS2 who is 26 months after having stopped feeding DS1 at 6 weeks.

Everything in your post sounds normal to me aprt from the use of the word 'explosive'. Are the poos bright yellow with mustard seeds? I only ask this because you said explosive and if they are greenish too then the baby could be taking too much fore milk and not getting enough hind?

Apologies if I'm way off here. I used KellyMom a lot for information and found that good too.

Hope that helps a bit

NanetteCarter no green poo. They're yellowy orange and have mustard seeds so I think we're all good there. She's just very farty I think bit like her parents TBH also, I had a third degree tear (she came out with her hand Beside her head) and as a result am on lactulose and have just finished a course of anti-bs. I wonder if that affects her...

Gurl I'll try all that, it sounds good!

Ladybee I have a bit of a tendency towards anxiety which I'm keeping an eye on. I've been good for about five years and am working hard on not sliding backwards. I love the communism analogy and will bear that in mind.

I vote to sling her if that appeals - my baby just will not sleep for more than 10mins unless she's 'on' me in some way. I tried to overcome it at first, because hey, babies need routines and to sleep on their own or they end up stuck to your nipple until 30, right? but in order to get some sleep, I now co-sleep and sling her as much as possible during the day = happy baby (apart from my oversupply problem but ignore that lol).

When you think about it, it makes sense - they have been inside us, being cuddle is therefore all they know. If they find themselves without an adult carer, they don't care if it's in a pram or moses basket, they will assume they've been abandoned and might die - cue desperate crying. Obv. some babies will adapt quicker than others, mine hasn't, but we're all getting plenty of sleep the majority of the time so responding to her (and my) instincts is no problem to me.

Please don't be concerned about foremilk/hindmilk....this is something that most babies sort out for themselves, and it has become something else women worry about, needlessly in most cases.

beginnings, there are too many 'shoulds' and 'should nots' going on in your head, sorry :)

Your baby is new. She is thriving. Her input and output sound 100 per cent normal to me, as does her behaviour.

She needs to be close to you, she is 'hardwired' to need it, and responding to these needs builds strong emotional resiliance that lasts a life time.

Snuggle up, forget about timings and schedulings, remember she has come from a world where there was no timetable and she was surrounded by your body. She knows your voice (and her father's), your taste, and your smell, and she is getting to know your face/s. She recognises your responses to her needs as a sign the world is safe and she is secure - that's the foundation of love.

Forget about how often she is farting or squirming or feeding - it all sounds normal.

You will get things wrong at times - that's why the 'good enough mother' is such an important concept in the theory. Babies thrive best with 'good enough mothers' :)

Oh, bless you - it's so overwhelming at first, isn't it? My lifesaver was a wrap - I had a kari-me but there are loads available. He just wanted to be held against me all the time for the first 6 weeks, inconsolable when put down at all even for a second, fed and fed and fed and fed and fed until I found myself Googling Prader-Willi syndrome at 4 in the morning but mostly just needed the contact and the movement and the warmth. (Warmth was a biggie for us, actually - things improved massively once I chucked the Gro-bag egg in the bin!)

It would be lovely if they came with a nice instruction booklet, though, wouldn't it?!