channel 4 breastfeeding programme

[lazycow]

Just thought people might be interested if you don't already know.

Channel 4 on Weds 1 Feb. A programme called Extraordinary Breastfeeding is on. The write up in the magazine I'm looking at says:

"You'll be texting your friends about this as soon as it starts. It's about the phenomenon of mothers who breastfeed their kiddies well beyond the age considered 'normal' in this country. Seeing a feisty mum breastfeed her two-year-old twin isn't that disturbing, but the sequence of another lady suckling her 7 year old dughter isn't one we will forget in a hurry. "

I'm looking forward to seeing the tone it takes.

Had a look at that Lucy - I don't see any socio-econmic references. This is the kind of thing that I have seen before. It is all about manipulation of statistics (and I don't mean manipulation in a negative way) - I'm pretty certain that a different paper could put some of those deaths down to socio-economic factors if the statistics were manipulated differently.

Ooops! Cross posted!

MeandMyBoy - I had a similar "incentive" to keep excsivley breast feeding: even when I was having problems breast feeding ds, I had this irrational fear that if I so much as gave ds one formula feed, then my supply would instantly dry up.

So, as someone else said on this or the other "myths" thread, "Failure was not an option!"

MeandMyBoy - I have a relative who works for the BBC and he has said similar about things about how letters from viewers are treated.. Especially if they are unfavourable.

That's great - thanks Tiktok. Wish I could read the full paper, but on the other hand I suspect it might be a little dry

Have there been similar studies on infant deaths as described in the link that LJ provided?

harpsi - I am a member of my local LLL and I do talk about how beautiful and wonderful it is and how it fulfills me as a mother whether they want to hear it or not!

BUT I also talk about the health benefits

Only recently I mentioned to a male friend who said "but formula is as good as breast isn't it ?" that this was not the case. He went home he told me later and read the contents of the tin containing his son's formula and wasn't impressed.

The next time he saw me he said "I wish my wife had tried to BF for longer than she did, she gave up after a week because we didn't think it mattered and we thought formula was as good as breastmilk..."

So I think you CAN discuss the health benefits because some people genuinely don't know the difference.

Yes, the danger is you will be seen as a pain in the a* because you go around talking global statistics...

so is it my fault my daughter has all the health problems associated with formula feeding because i gave up breast feeding early

airbabe, there are many reasons why mothers give up breastfeeding early. In most cases, it is because breastfeeding was painful/not effective as a means of nourishing the baby/difficult to do/unsupported by family....basically, because it was not a rewarding or positive experience. Often, better help, guidance and support would have made a difference, but it may not have been available to her.

So there is no justfication for a mother blaming herself, or for anyone blaming her, for early cessation of breastfeeding.

We've already discussed here and elsewhere that the risks of ill health increase with the use of formula, but there is no way of knowing cause and effect in any single instance, given that breastfed babies can fall ill, too.

I suppose the only way a formula fed baby's ill health can certainly be a mother's fault is if the baby is persistently and obviously poorly, for instance, has clear allergy symptoms on formula which disappear when he has breastmilk alone, and the mother has the option of breastfeeding painlessly and easily but decides she isn't bothered about this and persists in using formula.

I can't think of any other circumstances when a mother could think it was definitely her fault.

Hope that answers your question.

i gave up b/fing when ds was 12 months because everyone was nagging me about ti. dh and my mum etc.i really regretted it and cried and cried.
i wish i'd carried on until i felt ready to stop.
i look at him now- he's 2 and still feel that i missed out.

she has had all the problems since birth and i bf exclusively for 5 months had lots of support from midwifes and health visitors as nearly gave up number of times due to mastitus being very painful and at one point she was sucking so hard she caused a blister on my nipple and it burst leaving a chunk missing! i gave up because the size of my breasts was causing me back problems gg on a size 8 isnt good!and maybe selfishly i wanted my body back. allergies havent got any worse or better since stopping, she has a lowered immunity astma excema hayfever various food allergies coelic disease none of which are in me or her fathers family

airbabe, if you breastfed exclusively to five months, and the problems you list were there at birth, then I can say with just about 100 per cent certainty that the use of formula from 5 months has nothing to do with her problems....the fact you breasfed has probably made them less bad than they would otherwise be.

You should feel proud of the breastfeeding you did, and what you went through to ensure she had a good start.

having read some of these posts i do feel the breast feeding police are out again saying if you dont breast feed your baby xyz will happen to you or your baby it is true in many cases it is beneficial to the child but i my case i dont think breast or bottle feeding made any difference to her health and although it took her a while to get established on bottle feeding eventually she seemed a more contented baby for it but then again i took them away at 10 months

at the end of the day no one knows why some kids get ill and some dont its up to the individual how they feed there child and how long for and no one should be criticised for there choice where i live you cant say breast feeding isnt supported as they are particularly anti bottles dont think i would have dared not to in fact midwife came round one day about 10 days old and caught me about to give her a bottle and you would have thought i was murdering someone wiht the look on her face! dd never did get that bottle !! but breast feeding a 10 year old isnt right

airbabe - where anywhere on this thread does anyone say if you don't breastfeed then something will happen?

All I see is people being at pains to explain the concept of increased risk.

Tiktok - if you are referring to me, I understand the concept of increased risk. What I struggle to understand is the relevance of the global risks in western society, and the relevance of some of the statistics themselves. This is in context of my view that breastfeeding needs some serious but well thought out promotion

squarer - I was telling airbabe that I didn't see that anyone was saying 'formula feed and your baby will get xyz' ....wasn't referring to you at all.

I agree that bf needs better promotion.

There are a lot of studies that show risks of formula in the West - notably the ongoing Dundee study that's tracking mothers and babies for years and years, and the Avon study that's doing the same with a wider brief than infant feeding, and I expect the 1000 babies study in Newcastle will publish their findings on this too.

tiktok have you read the post from lucyjo earlier today about formula fed babies dying? and i seem to feel there is are plenty of people banging on about the health risks of formula fed babies the arguments just dont seem balanced, there are far more happy healthy formula fed babies than sick ones!! just as there are many breast fed babies wiht health problems usually associated with bottle feeding

airbabe and squarer - I think you have both missed the point about formula and deaths in the developing world.

I don't think any one here wants to deliberatley scaremonger and say if you formula feed "in the West" then your baby is 100% at the risk of serious ill health and possibly death. That would be simply rubbish and I don't think a single intelligent person here or elsewhere has ever suggested that.

I provided a link to BMA so that people could read some of the appalling abuses practiced by Nestle, et al, in promoting formula in countries where there is a very CLEAR correlation between a baby's well-being and his access to breastmilk (antibodies, etc).

These are serious abuses of international law. If you don't take an interest in international affairs, including stuff related to infant feeding, then fine, no one is blaming you for not being interested.

Personally I think the global view is extremely relevant to the UK especially in the context of the demonisation of so-called "extended" breastfeeding.

What is "extended" here in the UK is simply "normal" in many countries that I have visited including all over the Middle East where women who cover up head to toe breastfeed very very publicly and it is not stigmatised the way it is here in the UK. I have seen 3 year olds breastfed in countries (where showing the hair on your head is a crime and results in a prison sentence) and NO has even batted an eyelid. So, I am sorry, you can't say the international stuff ins't relevant. It is.

Please don't take anything said here personally. No one is having a go at bottle feeders.

to read the comment formula kills babies and formula fed babies in the west are more likely to die could really upset some people. formula feeding did not make my child ill but after some of these comments i do feel that because i chose to stop breast feeding i have made her problems worse. she cannot tolerate cows milk and at 2.2 she has formula on her breakfast and will still drink follow on milk as i believe that it is good for her, the thought of still breastfeeding her at 2 was not something i would have ever considered

ah, ok - thanks Tiktok

Nanneh - I do understand and appreciate your points about formula in the developing world. However, I simply do not agree that they apply to the west. Particularly not in respect of the "demonisation" of extended breastfeeding in the west as extended breastfeeding is surely far more common in developing countries? In fact as you mention later in your post the global view of breastfeeding is extrememly relevant, I couldn't agree more - but the global situation pertaining to formula isn't.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with you on many fronts. I agree that the antics of formula companies in other countries is despicable - all in the name of a profit. I do agree that formula does not carry the same health benefits as breastmilk (I am genuinely suprised when I hear of people who think it does - the Pepsi and Coke analogy was a good one).

I certainly don't take this personally - this discussion (as far as I recall anyway!) has not been an attack on bottle feeders, but on formula itself. Attack formula companies for their disgraces in developing countries by all means - babies do die as a result - but I just don't see anything to do with formula being demonised in western society as being helpful towards the promotion of breastfeeding.

We agree on the end result but just don't agree the path!

Airbabe - I think Tiktoks post of

"if you breastfed exclusively to five months, and the problems you list were there at birth, then I can say with just about 100 per cent certainty that the use of formula from 5 months has nothing to do with her problems....the fact you breasfed has probably made them less bad than they would otherwise be"

covers you. I mean - 5 months! That is absolutely brilliant and you should be proud of yourself! What you post is reminiscent of earlier posts which talk about genetics - and is one of the reasons why formula-bashing is unhelpful in terms of the promotion of breastfeeding IMO.

Squarer - I like you last point and glad we agree on most points

I don't know the exact facts about the length of BF in each country, but I would say that from my own personal experience it isn't true that extended BF is more prevelant in the West. I would say the reverse is true.

Many mothers in the developing countries I have been to and most certainly in the "traditional" rural socities, BF for a longer period of time (over 2 years). One of the reasons for this is that in less developed countries mothers are far less likely to have a 9 - 5 office job and more likley to be working on a field, etc, or other home activity which means they spend a longer period of time at home with a baby or toddler. This is very conducive to extended BF.

Here in the UK maternity leave is very short and most women end up having to return to work long before their toddler is even school age. Although many women express BM while at work, I would say that the maternity rights (or lack of) in this country are detrimental to BF beyond 6 months.

Lol - I worded it confusingly then Nanneh as I agree with that viewpoint too! Extended (past 6 months) is not common in the west.

Right. That's it! I refuse to agree on anything else out of principle

Extended (past 6 months) breastfeeding, of course

Squarer - so glad we are getting there on the "extended" issue

Let's all watch the programme tomorrow night and spend another week (or two) talking about it !