Feel so angry with the breast feeding mafia

[happyrf]

I breast fed relatively easily with ds1 despite struggling to keep up with a massive appetite. Ds2 much smaller appetite so am finding it fine and yet I still feel agrieved by the stories I hear about people who are tutted at or patronised when they struggle with BF or decide not to. I struggled at the start with ds2 with a poor latch and he tore me to shreds. Luckily I had a fantastic midwife who empathised as I sobbed my heart out over my bleeding nipples and told me to get nipple shields. However she told me that she wasnt allowed to recommend them as it went against NHS policy. WHAT! the one thing which got me through a horrible thing at a pretty hard time (also had c section, everything just bloody hurt) and the NHS can't recommend it! Who are these puritans, I have a mate who used them for a year, not ideal but it meant that she breast fed as opposed to not breast feeding which is what these people want. Why have we gone from supporting breasting mothers to positively bullying people into it when they are at a particularly vulnerable stage of their lives. Am I the only person who winds themselves into a rage about this (don't even get me onto the response mixed feeding gets)

Bollocks! It's in your head, you're tired & emotional. Only your own feelings & expectations make you feel guilty. I struggled massively & had lots of great help & support but the only PRESSURE came from within.

Two friends also struggled & wanted to quit. BEst friend said she had, had enough & wanted to quit. HV was fine & congratulated her attempt ( good stRt, 3 weeks better than none etc) & said she had to do what she felt was best. Also mentioned ff tips could be googled. Another close friend described same HV as bf nazi. Turned out she'd done the whole sob I don't want to quit, I feel bad etc routine to HV who in response tried to give her more support to bf, not being psychic & that & realising that what friend really wanted was permission. I think this happens a lot.

Your HV was wrong then, lucysocks.

They are absolutely allowed (supposed!) to give advice if appropriate on sterilisation, making formula up, and so on.

What they cannot do is advise you which formula to use. Other than that, thay can and should answer any questions you have.

Crap, cheeky - it definitely wasn't in my head. Yes, I felt my own pressure, but the HV was very judgmental. My HV with DS2 was brilliant, but the HV with DS1 was a complete cow. When you're feeling down about not succeeding, you don't need criticism, you need support. BF is such a small part of raising a child yet it's treated as the be all and end all.

In my case IUseTooMuch, it was getting my 5 month old to take milk in any other way, which he simply refused to do and screamed the place down in hunger until I gave in and bf him again. It took a LONG time and a lot of trial and error and distress on everyone's part before we got anywhere.

I was very ill, completely worn down, and simply could not access any support to get through it. It was a horrible time.

Thanks PuddleJumper and lucky.

Would the HV not even give that sort of advice lucky? I remember going through exactly the same thing at about 5 months and my HV was supportive. Not that it worked though, ds never took a bottle. I made sure not to make the same mistake with ds2, and he got a bottle every couple of days from 3-4 months. I remember wishing someone had told me that if I ever wante dot use a bottle, even for expressed bm, I would have to introduce one early.

No, the HV team here isn't great to be honest, they seem stupidly overstretched. Despite explaining the situation over the phone, she said they couldn't advise on bottle feeding but recommended a local mum's feeding group... for breastfeeding.

Ironically, we did use bottles at least once a day for the first couple of months, using expressed milk, so that I could bottle feed in public while I was still getting to grips with bf and DH did the dream feed. But somewhere around 2 months, DS joined the mafia (

Just to thow my two pence worth in - in the office I heard one woman harangue (sorry, no other word is appropriate) a pregnant woman because the pregnant woman was planning to FF.

IMO the problem is that if BF just works for some women or they struggle but then succeed some women cannot understand why other women dont find it easy or just try a bit harder. The lack of empathy at a vulnerable time can be quite upsetting.

It BF works for you then fine, if it doesnt then FF is also fine.

With the perspective of time I can now see that it really didnt matter. The problem is that at the time it did matter to me.

It's awful that you've had a bad experience, but wrt to this comment: "the nonsense about a baby stopping bf if you give them a drop of formula", sadly there are so many threads on here about BFing going tits up (pun not intended!) after a newborn has been topped up with formula, that I think a MW is being far more helpful to someone wanting to BF if they explain this to a new mother, and BFing is far more likely to be successful.
Of course no-one should be judging anyone on how they feed their baby, and only the mother (or parents) of a baby can decide how it is to be fed, and shouldn't ever feel guilty for making that decision.

I think the more I read about this whole argument is tgat it is nothing to do with breast or bottle, some mums feel like they are being told they have tried hard enough, regardless of what is said sometimes that is exactly what they are being told.

i like you get annoyed with SOME people who breasfeed who look down their nose at people who don't. Nipple shields however were not a saviour for me, my supply almost vanished and LO wouldn't latch on to my breast after using them. my midwife said the same thing to me with the best of intentions, if she'd just given me the horrow story of supply drying up I may have curled my toes and cried for a bit longer instead I had to stop breastfeeding. I'm expecting number 2 and will at least start breastfeeding and there will be no nipple shields coming anywhere near me.

on the other hand my sister used them no problems, but is it worth the risk? Possibly, if you're desperate like I was, just wish i knew what the risks were properly when i first used them.

I have felt that my HV and Midwives were desperate for me to give up breastfeeding and give my DD a bottle. There is no breastfeeding mafia where I live. There might be a bottlefeeding one though. And if one more bottlefeeder or health professional asks me when Im going to give up I will explode.

Point being, that we are all a bit sensitive to feeding choices it would seem. I don't know why. I feel embarrassed feeding my 9 month old in public so I don't do it, because I feel so judged. Which is pretty daft because lots of bottle feeders say exactly the same.

YAB unreasonable, inflammatory and divisive.

Sorry you're having problems, but your anger is totally misdirected.

I hope you get the support you need.

What's the industry geared around making mums feel Crap? What's it selling?

The burden of guilt is subjective and personal, mothers that choose not to breastfeed feel guilty if they think what they're doing is second best. You do not feel guilty if you believe you have made the right choice.

I eat meat, people against animal slaughter could try and make me feel guilty but it wouldn't work because I can justify and feel pleased with my choice.

You know, for years I was furious about being made to feel guilty for ff-ing. I had a crash cs with ds, a raging infection and a misplaced bladder. I was in agony. After trying, and trying I gave up (had I known then, what I know now things would have been different) and it felt like I was being attacked. Everytime I said he was ff I followed up with "bf didn't work out for us". It felt like I was being judged constantlu and made to feel guilty.

Then, one day I realised that it was me. I had been projecting my own guilt and paranoia (I also had severe pnd) onto other people and seeing barbs and judgement where there was none. Noone really cares how you feed your child. There is no bullying, no mafia. Some people take it more seriously than others, but you can just listen and smile. Its up to you what you do with the information out there.

OP- I'm sorry you've been made to feel so crap :( The MW sounds like she was very sympathetic, which is what you really needed- someone to understand that you were going through a lot of pain and worry.

NHS staff have very little in-depth BF training (some GPs have none at all) or basic counselling skills and they are also very overworked so don't have the time to sit down and listen.

I'm sure by now you've discovered why nipple shields aren't normally recommended, but I bet you would have found it helpful if a MW or HV explained this to you and helped you to come up with some ideas to make things better, instead of just saying you shouldn't use them.

If you still want to breastfeed then you might find it better to chat to a breastfeeding counsellor from one of the volunteer organisations (LLL, NCT, BFN, ABM) who will have the time and training to listen to you and help you get through this, if that is what you want, or get some closure on it if you want to stop BF. They are all non-judgemental and will listen to what you want.

The early days are a vulnerable time for mothers and babies and you may be feeling extra-sensitive. But that doesn't mean you are 'over-reacting'; this is important to you as it is important to a lot of mothers and you have every right to feel upset about it.

Here are some phone numbers that might help you-

LLL- 0845 120 2918 (24 hrs)
NCT- 0300 330 0771 (7 days a week, 8am-10pm)
BFN- 0300 100 0210 (9.30am-9.30pm every day)
ABM- 08444 122949 (9.30am-10.30pm)

Good luck, and congrats on your new DS :)

I found bf really hard to start with. In fact I stayed on hospital for a week to get it established. But within s day o was banging on the door begging for a mw to help me. She tried, I sat on a chair attached to a breast pump for hours but nothing happened. I was desperate, dd2 was desperate and the me said 'you've given it a try perhaps you should stop now' and gave me some readymixed formula to take home. Anyway we gave him that but them I persisted, still in massive amounts of pain until a friend with teenage kids suggested rotasept spray. Dh managed to find some and it all got easy! When o told the mw what had caused the miracle she laughed and said 'ooh, haven't heard of that for years, we used to recommend that but aren't supposed to nowadays'. She didn't threaten to chop my breasts off and deliver my baby to SS! It wasn't a big deal! After what o had been through nothing would have stopped me using it!

There are reasons for not recommending nipples shields andover feeding. It's not just done on a whim. But no-one can force you to do what they say. Do what works.

Sorry! Stupid iPhone.

I think you feel guilty whatever you do.

I feel like I am being forced to give formula at the moment, despite being able to bf.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

"I would dearly love a law to be passed that prevents the discussion of breastfeeding in public, on paper online ANY FECKING WHERE!!!!"

Why would that be Queenmaeve?
NESTLE would love that ban wouldn't they, it would probably double their billions in profit every year.

Formula has become accepted as the norm when it clearly needn't be. Almost every woman who has a baby has the ability to start breastfeeding. With proper support they have the ability to continue feeding and never having to buy formula.
Yes some mums struggle with a host of problems and decide it is in their best interests to ff. If they have tried to bf then fine, not every mum wants to or can continue to 2 years. But they could try, as a pp said it is the mums who can't be bothered or won't try which gets me.

She did recommend them.
You did use them with success.
You are BF which is what you want to do.
What's the problem exactly?

Are you pissed off about something else perhaps?

NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS: there is no breastfeeding mafia! There never was!

What there will always be is unsympathetic unkind unknowlegable ill-informed people who make comments or fail to help mothers about feeding.

There will always be people who put pressure on mothers to use formula when the mothers would prefer to hear other options if they have problems or for them to shut up about it if they have no problems.

There will always be people who are insensitive about a mother who is using formula and who comment on it, or who indicate some sort of judgment.

And there will always be women who feel emotional, defensive, disappointed, let down, unhappy in some way about their bf/ff feeding experience, because for many, it is more than just a way of getting milk into a baby, and it's part of their relationship with their baby and part of their identity as a mother.

For what it's worth, some of the examples here do not seem at all linked to any conspiracy or organisation.

The OP's midwife informed her she wasn't 'allowed' to recommend shields - this cannot be true, because midwives' practice is not regulated to that extent, but shields are not routinely recommended for sound reasons. I am not sure how that translates into 'mafia'.

Someone else had a family member, who was also an HCP, who made a silly and tactless comment about 'poison'.

Someone else had stupid and unkind office colleagues who were bossy to a pregnant woman.

Another person had a midwife who insisted on a lecture in the antenatal clinic which must have been boring, but surely no more harmful than that?

Point is - people say and do daft and unthinking things. Women may already feel these things deeply - and this is why daft and unthinking things shouldn't be said.

But claims about 'mafia' are neither funny nor remotely relevant.