When did you accept defeat?

[metalelephant]

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princess you've gone through so much, I'm so sorry to hear how tough it is for you :( While feeding 2 hourly is normal, with twins the pressure must be horrendous. As you say, they go longer on formula so if that's what you need to have the time to be their mother in all the other, very important ways, then this should not only make life much better for you but as they get bigger they will enjoy that time you have with them, too.

Obviously any breastmilk is really beneficial so if you want to allow them to suckle when you have the energy and time, it's all good. However it may be that you just prefer to move on now and if so you can be proud of what you have achieved, which is absolutely loads.

this is such a emotional issue. I ended up after two weeks of screaming and no wet nappies (midwife assured me modern nappies don't get wet!) giving a bottle. My baby slept and had a wet nappy. Then I was told probably the antibotics I was on were affecting my milk - thanks ! I cried over that and still feel I could have done better - my screaming baby is 16 now ! My second child I breastfed exclusively without any problems and I then knew how it felt for my milk to come in and feel that I had some milk - I definitely knew this time was different. Then baby 3 came along after a 10 year gap and despite sleeping peacefully I knew I didn't have milk again. At 6 weeks she hadn't regained her birth weight and I saw a very un PC health visitor (an older lady) who said "give yourself a break and give her a bottle". Not what I wanted to hear but I gave her formula and she started gaining weight. My advice is go with your instincts - I knew there was something not right both times I couldn't breastfeed and knew things were right when I could.I still feel guilty that I might have been able to alter things but at the end of the day all three kids are healthy and I love them all the same !

Feeding 2 hourly is normal? Really? This is from the start of the feed. dtds will feed for about 45 minutes and then wind, settle for roughly 20 mins if I'm lucky but be grizzly and then 1 hour an 15 mins after the last feed ended they are both screaming and trying to suck from my neck frantically. I relatch them and they feed for about 30 mins come off and settle for 5mins then we are back to square one... this is the point I give a bottle and they take a full feed, wind and go to sleep. They also cannot afford to lose weight so that's in my mind too. Two weeks ago they were happily on 4 hour feeds and sleeping from 11pm to 5 or 6am. They are now waking at 2-3am and then 5am.

Yes, it's normal. However, 4 hourly feeds is unusual, as is sleeping so long and TBH that would ring alarm bells with me because I would be concerned that they are possibly unable to get enough milk in those times. I say "possibly" because some babies can work within that sort of routine just fine, but it's more likely with this situation that the baby (or babies) are not "demanding" or requesting sufficient milk, and therefore mum's supply drops and then you end up in a situation where they are now. Nipple shields can also lead to a lowered supply (although they are brilliant in many circumstances and I'm certainly not saying you've done anything wrong by using them - they just need to be used under proper lactation support).

What they are probably doing right now is trying to build up your milk supply and this is likely to be possible, but, the question is - what do you want to do? If moving to formula is right for you then there's no point going over the "what ifs" and what's happened, and I felt from you post before that this is where you're at. In that case you'll get lots of support from here if you need it. If you are still of a mind to continue then you'll get plenty of help here, as well, to do so.

Sorry - I'm just not sure what YOU want, but whatever it is you'll be looked after here :) (If you want to be, that is :) )

When I say it's normal, I mean it's within a wide range of "what is normal". For you this is different to how it was and I'm just offering one of many explanations as to why it's changed. It will change again... that's the nature of all this. Understanding how and why is only part of managing it. You are the one living it and caring for your babies, not anyone here. Having the knowledge and info means you can make the choice that's right for you, whatever that is.

four hour feeds was what SCBU got them onto and they were putting on weight brilliantly. Can't tandem feed well unfortunately and my 3yo is getting left out so she needs to be considered. I'm hoping to mix feed but am aware my milk may go. Just seeing how it goes.

Ah, I see, that makes sense. Great that they were gaining weight so well :) but it would have hidden the underlying process of reducing the demand on you and therefore your supply (if indeed that's the reason they're asking for more now, and of course I may well be wrong). But it doesn't matter. The point is that you clearly have a strategy and with a 3YO too you certainly have your work cut out.

I hope that things are ok for you, however you want them to be :)

I will try and keep this short-ish: I decided enough was enough at about 3 weeks as my nipples were hanging off and my son wasn't gaining weight. He had never latched well from birth. Support was rubbish. I expressed what I could (not very much, supply never properly established) and FF'd for the rest. Kept trying to latch him just in case. By 6 weeks I was suspicious about TT through my own research and a couple of people from here (occ and narmada) spurred me on to contact an IBCLC. She snipped the TT. We tried again. My nipples got shredded. I tried for 4 weeks solidly, but with top-ups, camped on the spare bed with water and cereal bars. It didn't work. The tie regrew. Snipped again at 12 weeks. He couldn't latch at all. We did a lot of cranial osteopathy and we still are. I focussed on upping my milk supply with a double pump. He developed reflux. He developed cow's milk protein allergy. He was really quite ill for a couple of months and weight gain slowed completely. I increased my supply, by about 4 months, to the point where I can exclusively pump. We are looking at a third TT snip now as it has regrown again and it is still giving him loads of issues (TT isn't just about BFing...). In the meantime, the CO has helped him generally (I can actually see the effects it has!) because there are a load of issues there from birth/malposition and from the TT.
He is 7 months old in a week. I'm still trying, if I'm honest, though I don't like to admit it to myself. I would still try and get him on the breast if I could because exclusively pumping for a year for a baby with reflux/CMP allergy/who can't bottle-feed without it hurting is not fun. We don't really go anywhere or do anything - I basically haven't been able to leave the house much since he was 6 weeks old (though we did go away for a week and manage brief trips out). All I have done since he was born, really, is work in one way or another on feeding him.
I wouldn't recommend this approach to anyone - it has nearly driven me over the edge many many times, but I don't regret it for a second. I have had to learn to trust my instinct (when I didn't, and started FFing at 3 weeks, it was the wrong decision for us) and as long as I am doing that I find I can get through it somehow.
I'm not a religious person, but I think for some women BFing is one of those areas where the Patrick Overton poem about faith seems appropriate: when you get to the edge, you have to know that there will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught to fly. But only for as long as you want to keep stepping over the edge.

My time wasn't half as bad as yours, but it was bloody hard! I think it is for everyone. Luckily DS is a good feeder and gained weight. My only problems were three bouts of mastitis early on and thrush which was excruciating!

I know breastfeeding councellors go on and on about it, but it really does get easier after 8 weeks. It's like a magic spell was cast on me and DS and now we're in boob heaven! (He is now 17weeks). He feeds well, my nipples aren't sore and it's so fab being able to just whip it out when we're out and about not bothering with bottles!

My breastfeeding councellor said to me especially for the first 6 weeks, breastfeeding is a full time job. Eat, sleep and breastfeed! Please try and make it to the magic 8 weeks and see how your DC is then. If its hard for you then you know it's the choice you've got to make. But if you're determined, don't let everyone accuse you of being millitant, if I wasn't strong enough to carry on myself, I would of given up. I was surrounded by people who had FF and they didn't understand why iwanted to do it!

Thanks Jamw, you're right, it is getting easier as time goes by (lo is 8 weeks) and also on how hard it is to explain why we get so desperate for bf to work.

Mollkat I really am in awe of what huge effort and sarifices you made... I hope things get easier for you; I expressed for 4 months myself for my first but what you've been doing is extraordinary!