Please help! I'm heartbroken today though it's my own fault. Very long

[Needsomewine]

apologies as I've had a few threads here in the last couple of weeks.

I have a 5 week old dd2. She was 2 weeks early, jaundiced, tongue tied but snipped on day 4. So bf was a challenge to start with but once my milk came in she started to get the hang of things. She is VERY sleepy so I had to wake her for feeds and tried to increase the frequency of feeds with mixed success. I stil had to top her up but she was off all top ups by about 2.5 wks. She has been slow to gain weight. She was born at 6lb 3oz and was only 7lb 3oz five weeks later. She only gained 8oz in the last 2 weeks. Cue huge anxiety by me when she was weighed on Tuesday and some feeds were given by bottle as I was too upset to feed her. I tried to express while dh fed her but wasn't very relaxed and didn't get much. With dd1 I got good amounts with expressing.

I am now convinced that because dd isn't a voracious feeder by any means , that my supply has dwindled down gradually and now with all my anxiety and missed feeds there's nothing left hardly. I saw an excellent paediatrician yesterday who reassured me and told me that dd perhaps still needed help until she got stronger. She was also trying to help me as I have dd and lots of other things going on, so she suggested to only feed dd for 20 mins, then offer a top up, then to express if I could. Great plan I thought.

Trouble is I just don't have any milk left- if it was a day earlier I perhaps could have saved the situation before my anxiety took over:( :(. dd has only fed successfully twice since in the last 24 hrs. Both of these times are when I didn't express the feed before so there was 6 hours worth of milk there. I totally realise that whilst she and I had a lovely feed:) :( that that's no way to build up milk- by leaving it for 6 hours.

I am trying to remain positive of being able to feed her but how will I ever het my supply back now. Dd just fussed and pulls off immediately when she doesn't get any milk after a couple of sucks. I have done 2 things- ordered a hospital grade pump which is coming tomorrow and asked dh to go and buy some motilium. Does anyone have any experience in this. I have just expressed after dd got nothing from me and I only got just over 1oz.

I'm not an expect, but I've read your other threads and what Tiktok has said and had an idea.... would it be worth weighing your DD before and after a feed so you can see how much she is getting? Would that help your confidence? Would your HV be up for that?

I know this doesn't answer the question you've just posted, sorry, just a thought.

Gah! Expert not expect....

No advice but sending a big hug!! Sounds like you have a good plan to boost your supply. I'm sure you've thought about bathing together etc?? I'll check in with interest xo

I think that would have been a good idea a week ago as I know that dd was actually feeding then. But through my own stupid actions and blind panic, dd is now not feeding from me at all unless there's been a 6 hr gap between going on the breast. I try her for 20 mins but she is mostly pulling off totally, pulling off onto the end of the nipple or latched on and not sucking. It is because there is no milk there.

needsomewine, sorry you feel so down :(

(littlewavylines - 'test weighing' is the worst thing someone can do in these circs, sorry!)

needsomewine - I feel unable to help. Your confidence is what needs to be tackled, alongside your anxiety, and any residual bf issues....and this is something you need real life support with.

I hope it all works out. You say on the one hand (on other threads) you feel all is well with your dd, and yet you post in some despair and distress about things today....I can assure you, however, that your dd is getting milk from you and you have not dried up. Please get some supportive help.

tiktok - you're the expert! Didn't even know it had a proper name!!
needsomewine hope you get some help. Hugs

Just had the first motilium pill but probably too late, I don't know. Have got a medela swing pump at the moment so will express every 3 hrs.

In what form do people take fenugreek for boosting supply?

Tiktok- she was ABSOLUTELY getting milk from me until the weigh in on Tuesday. Not enough to gain lots but enough to be settled and happy. But now, it is different, she is not feeding at all from me, apart from the lovely feed this morning when I had 6 hrs worth of milk. She is just pulling off all the time. Please, please trust me I know the difference :). I have sought quite a lot of help over this but can't have people holding my hand every day in person. The paediatric was amazing and her plan would have been perfect IF I had last weeks milk msupply.

I guess what I'm asking is will I be able to get my supply back up if I express every 3 hours with a symphony pump and take motilium???

I will of course try feeding dd at every feed but realistically she needs the milk to come quite easily as it has in the past. She has a very gentle suck.

I had exactly the same with my first son. I was so stressed as he did not gain as much weight as my HV said he should and I felt my milk had just disappeared. Apparently it is normal to feel like your milk has dissappeared after a few weeks so there may be more than you think there but I have been in the same situation and I did seem to pretty much dry up over a few days. I was exhausted and had stressed myself out far too much. I gave up and wish I hadn't now. I needed more support and more understanding of BFing I think. Sorry I cant actually offer you any advice but just trying to relax as much as you can and try to perserve. I would have thought if it has not completely dried up you should be able to increase your supply or combination feed it worse came to worse. Good luck and hope the lovely ladies here offer you some good advice. I may be turning to them too as I really want to try to stay bfing this time. Big hugs x

Firstly - don't blame yourself for everything. I have fed 4dcs with little success and have finally accepted that bf is a two way thing. If one of you is out of kilter it can be harder to get going and stay going.

Take every bit of help you can. I'm sure that there must be a way of re-establishing your supply. It may well take work and time but I'm sure it can be done.

But if it can't (or like me you feel the cost is too great for your other dcs) then please don't take all the blame. I'm a total hypocrite here as I did every time, but with help (often from MN!) I have realised that each time I have not succeeded, the dc was not completely fulfilling their end of the bargain either.

I'm not trying to talk you down or ill wish you, but if it doesn't work out, you will eventually come to conclusion that YOU TRIED YOUR BEST. And as mums, that's about all we can hope for

Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

Ok, try not to panic. Your milk hasn't gone and you should be able to increase your supply.

Two weeks ago my 8wo DD was admitted to hospital, she was suffering from meningitis (she is fine now :)). She hardly fed at all for five days. When she came out I could tell my supply had dipped, but now, a week on, I'm pretty sure it's back to normal. I have basically been offering her a boob at every possible opportunity, so if she wants to feed hourly, that's what we do. I am knackered but I can feel the difference, so it can be done.

Could you try a supplemental nursing system if your DD is getting frustrated? Basically it trickles the milk (formula, expressed, whatever you have) in whilst she is bring, so she gets a quicker feed and your breasts get stimulated to make more milk.

Motilium is fab stuff and that will help too. Good luck!

And yes, I didn't manage to bf my DS. He was Tongue tied, but basically I lacked the confidence and was convinced I was starving him. I wasn't, but it was stressing me too much and I had to stop. I did what was right for us both at the time and never looked back after a couple of weeks.

Whereabourts are you in terms of area? We have an NHS breastfeeding mentor in this area who will make daily visits and help with specific difficulties such as yours.

Saying that you have "6 hours worth" of milk is just not how milk production works - you might feel fuller if she has gone a longer time without feeding, but the thing you need to get your head around is to stop comparing how breasts work to how bottles work. You don't fill up between feeds, you don't need time to fill up, you don't have a finite amount of milk. There are all sorts of analogies about how "orders" an extra amount of milk for that time of day, but really that isn't how things work either. There isn't an analogy to be made - breasts are unique. The baby suckles and milk is produced. If your supply is low, all it means is that it's coming slower than she would ideally like (which is possibly what is causing the pulling off). You can try switching sides every time she pulls off which should ensure a faster flow and also stimulate supply. I do think it's worth trying the supplements, they can't do any harm after all. Expressing yes fine unless it's going to completely exhaust you. Frequent feeds (even if you don't feel she's getting much) are more helpful, I think.

Even if your supply was at absolute rock bottom, nothing being produced at all, it is possible to relactate. Supply just isn't as fragile as we are led to believe. If you want this, you can do it. If you don't, please stop beating yourself up and accept that you have already given your DD so much goodness from your milk. But either way, stop worrying that every little thing you do is going to have this massive effect and ascribing some kind of judgement to this as though it makes you a bad mother - it absolutely doesn't. Even if you decide to stop, now, that wouldn't make you a bad mother. Feeding your DD lighter fluid would make you a bad mother Anything else on the feeding front you can pretty much get away with.

I really hope that you are okay and you have some real life support, not necessarily breastfeeding-related - friends, family, partner etc. It is so exhausting and stressful with a tiny baby, be kind to yourself. If you happen to be in the Warwickshire area, BTW, I do know lots of people who absolutely would come and hold your hand until you feel more confident with this.

I'm in Leicester, also have details of a good breastfeeding mentor.

As Bertie says, it is not too late to turn the situation around. DD2 stopped feeding in March at 21 months. She was only feeding at night at that point. I still produce milk...leak quite a lot if DD2 is upset and I can't get to her (if I'm driving and she's in the back of the car for example) and also leak if someone else's newborn cries or is being fed near me.

Honestly though, you sound so distressed by the situation that perhaps it is time to call it a day. DD2 will survive and thrive perfectly well being bottle fed...much more so than she will with an exhausted, distressed mother in the long term. You've done really well, give yourself a break x

Thank you for all your kind words. They really help:)

Button moon- I think you are spot on there. There is definitely a baby component in this bf lark. Dd1 was also not a good feeder but better than dd2. I got by the first time because she was dc1 probably.

It's hard because I'm actually going against by bf plan for this child! The plan was to go all out in the first month to get bf established, expressing, sitting for hours, topping up, whatever and if that didn't work (and I include rubbish weight gain in that) I'd give up because of dd1. But when you're faced with making that decision it's a hard one to make as it can't be reversed. It all really messes with your head. For an hour and a half last night, I'd decided firmly to give up and then dh said something to make me think of the regret I might feel. That wasn't intentional- he'll support whatever I decide.

But if I give up I want it to be on my terms iykwim. I got a gastroenteritis with dd1 and my supply all but dried up but I was too stubborn to give up and got going again through feeding and expressing. She was 5 months then.

32- so glad you dd is ok:). Encouraging to hear you got your supply up.

Feed time again here. I am dreading the night. Always the worst when your feeling on the edge of haing to give up.

needsomewine- very sorry for you.

i know my thoughts and advices are not taken here very well, but try it might help you.
when my dd1 broke her arm durin horse competion like two weeks ago,adrenalin level were so high that it immediatly blocked oxitocin in my body. so my russian breastfeeding counselo asvised this

1. nesting with a child. basically you need to spend day and night in a lovely comfortable 'nest' which can be your bed. skin to skin contac as much as possible,t, feeding or trying or offering to feed around and when baby is sleeping.
2. drink plenty of water plus i was having fenchel tea.
3. take a bath with aroma oils of orange and fenchel

and as all have told you- only confidence in yourself and success.

Bertie and ballstoit- unfortunately I'm not near you

forgot to mention- fenchel tea i was having once a day, and aroma oils are not suitable for little ones, so use it make sure little one is not around

Poor you NeedSomewine, you've really had a tough couple of weeks haven't you.

You've had some good suggestions and ideas here though and like Bertie, I was wondering about the slower flow being frustrating for dd. Switch nursing is the way to get over this, but iirc from your other thread, you weren't so keen on this.

You anxiety won't reduce your milk supply, but big levels of stress can inhibit your let down reflex.

You asked about fenugreek, so here is the page from kellymom that tells you about the dosage etc.

Also, you say dd 'only' gained 8 oz in two weeks- well that 's a decent gain isn't it? OK, so it's a bit lower than 'the average', but it's not that bad is it?

Finally, has anyone looked in her mouth since the tongue tie was snipped as they can re grow? Just a thought...

Didn't want to read and run so thought I would post just to say that I don't think you should be so harsh on yourself. I'm sure your DD is getting plenty of milk and frequent feeds and pumping will help boost your supply. It did mine. When I started preping milk stocks to go back to work I started expressing at night time after DD went to bed, for the first week I sat there for an hour and got 1 to 2 oz max (that is total from both boobs). The next week it was slightly more and by week 3 I was getting 5 oz out in 40 minutes and I was eating enough for a family of 5 so I gave up then- but that is beside the point...

good luck!

I would ditch the expressing and just babymoon with your baby as Ukrainianmum said. Can your DH not look after your DC1 over the weekend while you go to bed with your lo and just feed, feed, feed.

I have a low supply of milk and as Bertie says, it's not that I don't have enough milk but that it is produced only slowly which in effect means that I have to feed lots and lots. At 5 weeks old, my DCs were feeding hourly and then cluster feeding in the evenings. Maybe you don't produce milk quickly but I recommend things like switch feeding to boost your supply.

Just want to add my support too. My supply dipped massively after a nursing strike, (although DS was much older -around 8/9 months) but expressing and lots of nesting like ukranianmum mentioned will really help you. And by fenchel she means fennel. You can do it! The milk is there and will come.

Yes, my supply dipped too after a 12 day nursing strike during which DS fed 3 times a day instead of 6 or 7 times a day (although he was older too - 13 months).

It didn't take long for him to get my supply back to what he wanted, he just had more feeds and longer ones IIRC. I didn't manage to express much while he was striking either.