unhelpful information on breastfeeding on mums.net

[verastones]

website displaying negative experience of breastfeeding www.mums.net

Really poor article on 3 quite negative breastfeeding experiences, personally I think it would frighten anyone from having a baby never mind breastfeeding

If you agree with me that it not a balanced article and does not reflect most peoples experience of breastfeeding, please complain to them

I have emailed to complain

www.mums.net/index.php?document=20&article=6

please note it is mums.net not mumsnet

Im thinking that we are all actually agreeing here but kind of talking at x purposes???????

Totally agree with you Rhubarb that BF should not be rammed down people's throats as this can really put people off. And I also think that we need to be honest about the potential problems which can be encountered while BF. But it needs to be in context. And appropriate support needs to be offered. In an ideal world all expectant mothers would be told all the positives of BF, but here are some problems you might encounter, and here is the number of someone you can call in the middle of the night when you feel like giving up. How you feed your baby is a personal decision but I think everyone who wants to BF should be encouraged and supported all the way. Just worries me that someone someone could be put off BF unnecessarily by reading something like this.

I also proved it to be a falacy to my two HVs that babies CAN open their mouths wide. Neither of my two did. Nothing more i could have done about that - they both have small beautiful rosebud mouths. Fortunately, it only proved a problem with my 2nd since we both had thrush as well. (I had the mega let down prob too - my HV didnt quite believe it either until she tried to help him latch on and got covered . I wasnt so much embarrassed as i was glad that she knew that i knew what i was talking about).

QV, please don't tell people that. I have seen far too many women with bleeding, cracked and damaged nipples, who have pesevered because someone like you has told them it is normal to hurt at first.

Yes, there is a lot we don't know about pain and breastfeeding. Some women do get sore, and despite everyone's best efforts, the soreness persists.

But for the majority of women, soreness equals something that needs to be fixed before it gets worse, and it is easily corrected. Yes, easily.

Experienced breastfeeding counsellors and others who know what they are supposed to be looking for can help the mother amend her positioning so it does no further damage to the nipple.

Too often, mothers who are sore get observed by someone who says 'hm, your positioning looks ok' and so they carry on. Almost (note that almost) every mother I see who has been told that, can be helped to have a virtually pain-free, effective feed straight away.

Pain is a sign that there is something wrong, not something to be borne for three, four, five or whatever weeks.

I can't see how it helps to tell mothers the agony is something they have to expect, and have to put up with.

The case you describe - the baby who is tongue tied - is especially someone who should not just put up with it. If TT is interfering with bf, the frenulum can be snipped, and pain free feeding can then take place (it's not always an instant 'cure' but it often helps a lot).

It's not 'unnatural' or 'abnormal' for bf to be difficult at first, and lots of people have a horrendous time that gets better as the weeks go by. But telling people to expect the worst...sorry, that's not good.

My post to QV is in response to the thing she told her cousin, BTW.

I didn't find it hard feeding dd1 at all, nipples sore for a few days, that was all. But I did have midwives on hand as I was in hospital, that helped with positioning.

With dd2, again, I didn't have any problems with feeding, more trying to deal with dd1 at the same time that got me down.

Everyone is different, it doesn't have to be painful and horrendous for weeks before it gets better.

posted x with tt

I dont tell anyone else that - it was a one off because she asked. (I was pg too at the time and had my more difficult-to-bf-DS after hers) I have to say that it is a generalisation to say that if it hurts it can be instantly and its not right. I proved that to my HV's as i said. My two had small mouths and i had "good sized" nipples. The only thing that fixed that was them growing.

can be fixed instantly

QV - you have told however many thousands read Mumsnet, now - which is why I responded!

I didn't say fixed ' instantly', I said fixed 'easily', and I stick by this...for the majority of women, soreness can be fixed easily. It's not always quick - I might be with a mother over an hour, and she may have to practise at home, but the improvement happens in that first hour.

That's the majority - leaving a minority who have longer lasting and more intractable pain.
The only one 'generalising' was you, saying to everyone who reads this that soreness is normal. In fact, 'totally normal'.

Just not true.

I agree to tell the positives of b/f and the story mentioned on mums.net told the experiences of one woman who breastfed her 3 children under difficult circumstances, but all in all it is a positive outcome for breastfeeding and she does combine the bad bits of breastfeeding along with positives.

We need to have a clearer campaign about breastfeeding. For instance, I think we all agree that sometimes b/f is sore, not for any particular reason (although my MWs all had their theories over me - from pale nipples, to small nipples, to low pain threshold, all my fault note! As for low pain-threshold, I had a home birth with my second so I don't think so!), however the soreness does ease off. Information should be given on preventing things like cracked nipples, mastitis, blocked ducts, etc. Helplines should be readily available.

A lot of midwives and Health Visitors appear to be grossly uniformed on b/f and these are the people that can really make the difference between choosing the breast over bottle. My HV used to remark every time she saw me "still feeding him yourself! Most women give up under 6 weeks! Is he putting on weight alright?"

More information is what is needed, and right people need to be trained properly in all aspects of breastfeeding.

Conceded.

I just got immeasurably annoyed at the implication IME that i mustve been doing something wrong and upon every visit by HV's and MWs they couldnt actually pinpoint anything at all. Latch was as good as it could have been etc etc. I have lots of other instances of incorrect advice from Mws and HVs from other people but its a big wide world out there i guess and there are fewer stories like mine and theirs as there are "incorrect positioning etc"

Im so self absorbed

No QV, I got told the same. There are people who simply refuse to accept that for some of us it just hurts, it has to be our fault somehow! But your story is not uncommon, I know quite a few women who had the same problems and were investigated just as thoroughly. However, as Tiktok says, you need to eliminate what it could be before accepting that it just hurts. And I would reassure any woman that the pain does get better and eventually goes away altogether, though not quite at the 6 week stage!!!!

Although i have to say tiktok - its difficult to get the balance right on here because usually, as positive about it as i would like to be, i always run the risk of being called a "smug mum" or being insensitive to those who feel they "failed" despite desperately trying.

Exactly rhubarb - i only realised i was pain free after 9 weeks. (still find let down uncomfortable now and DS is 7 mths).

With my DD - i had no thrush or mastitis and had pain for 3 weeks - no cracked nipples etc either.

Message withdrawn

OK, QV Thanks for the concession

It is a difficult balance - mothers do need to know it may not be easy (esp at first) but they can get help (though that can be a big fat lie - they may not be able to get help, or the only 'help' they get is useless or undermining). The real ease of bf does not really make its mark for a few weeks, in many cases, true, Pruni.

I get worried when there's a call for mothers to use the helplines, Rhubarb, though I welcome it, at the same time.

The total number of volunteer people operating these charity run helplines in the UK is about 250.

There are 600,000 babies born every year in the UK.

About 400,000 of them at least start off breastfeeding.

Maybe half of them (lets say) hit a problem of some sort (a guess).

That's 200,000.

How many volunteer counsellors are there again, capable of offering more than just a friendly ear but some decent bf knowledge - yes, 250.

Work it out .....I can tell you, the NCT bf line only just manages to cope, with 30,000 plus calls a year, and at holiday times women may have to leave a message and wait for some hours for a call back (or worse).

The voluntary orgs will never, ever be able to do more than chip away at the massive under-supporting of breastfeeding from people whose training should equip them to do it.

Message withdrawn

Yup - 100 plus in NCT who answer calls on the NCT line, and about 50 each who are active on the lines of the other 3 organisations (BfN, LLL, ABM).

Tiktok, what exactly do you do? Are you a volunteer? I am interested and would like to help.

NCT breastfeeding counsellor - see www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.co.uk for info on training.

But all the other vol orgs train counsellors too.

There are also peer supporter schemes all over the country but the mothers are not trained to the same breadth or depth.

apologies if i have offended anyone, not sure what spamming means but i have put it on a couple of times because it was the middle of the night and i wanted to find someone on line

agree with a lot thats been said x

Tiktok I believe the ABM has some 40 counsellors active on the phones... I am one of them.

BTW - I have to say that many women in our local trust know I (and others) am available to come and see them for FREE and still don't call.... they either persevere with the pain or give up.

On the plus side, my doula clients all breastfeed easily because I am there and can correct latches very quickly.... and I agree with Tiktok, you can fix a latch and make a huge difference very quickly!

Also we need to count all the breastfeeding clinics which are run on the NHS which women do not have to pay for.

pupuce - I estimated 50 ABM people, so I was being overly optimistic! Did you think I had missed you out? Read the post

There are actually very few breastfeeding clinics - 'all' the bf clinics sounds as if there is one in all major centres, and this is not the case. At a guess, I would say there is about 12 to 20, in the whole of the UK, often meeting no more than once a week, some close in the school hols, some are run by one person only and if she is ill/away, nothing happens. They are run by paid people, on the whole, sometimes with vol. support.

Bf support groups are more numerous, but they differ hugely in quality. They are a good place to go for someone to make bf friends, but the actual support people get for something that's going wrong is very hit and miss.