My first RL experience of just what an emotive subject this is...

[Miaou]

Just been to a baby massage class run by my health visitor (lovely person btw). There were five of us there, and I was the only breastfeeder - when I started to breastfeed ds you could hear a pin drop and I swear I could feel the guilt in the air! Immediately the conversation went round to how each person had tried (and failed) to breastfeed, or why they chose to bottlefeed - I felt really sad that all these people felt they needed to justify themselves. Also I felt unable to make any positive comment about b/f in case I came across as holier than thou or like I was rubbing it in. What a minefield. When I had the dds about half my peer group breastfed; I guess the proportion is much lower here .

Yes, Pruni, that was the upsetting post I read too. Just am fed up of trying to explain how hurtful such nasty sentiments can be.

If ds had been my first child I would probably have thought it was really easy and wondered how anyone could fail to do it...though hope I would be more compassionate, after all, I don't go round slagging off people who didn't have natural drug-free deliveries !

bloody hell I hope I have never come across as assuming that all bottlefeeders are like that - that's mortifying.

Miaou, am very sure you won't find anything like that in your posts!

There are definitely women out there for whom breastfeeding "not working" is a relief. But then there are those out there who feel appalling about it. And those who never thought about doing it in the first place.

I've met women from all three categories (and could probably come up with more).

Hunker, I can always rely on you to summarise in a sentence what it has taken me an entire thread to realise

I have to admit that after having DS and breastfeeding succesfully I was a bit holier than thou. He was a big baby with a big appetite and he latched on well and fed every 4hrs, I couldn't see what all the fuss was about.

DD was a different matter I don't know if it was because she was smaller but she never latched on right, I got thrush and cracked nipples and she just sort of smacked her lips. I was howling with pain and even getting angry with her. DH had to stand in and say enough is enough and that I wasn't doing anyone any good like this. So I stopped after about 3 weeks.

So my advice (to knowone in particular) is never judge if you don't know the full facts.

Hunkermunker - can i employ you as my official mouth? Perhaps on a shared basis with Miaou?

Miaou just to add you didn't come accross as judgemental or assuming at all it was a genuine observation about how they reacted and how you felt .

Interesting that this has come up today. I got really angry at dh two nights ago because he couldn't understand why it still upsets me to be around my two friends who are still bfing. Someone mentioned grieving about it still and I certainly am there too! And ds is 2 Dh thinks that just because I was successful at expressing and ds therefore got bm anyway that it somehow makes everything OK...but it doesn't, really, not for me anyway.

Message withdrawn

Miaou, the nasty comment wasn't on this thread! Quite the opposite.

Agree, JW - I found it really really hard to be around any friends who were breastfeeding. Would feel so sad, angry, cheated, depressed - and definitely agree I felt I was grieving. Have reached acceptance (just about) now, I think.

Hmmm. Much humbled by this. Didnt realise it was a grieving experience for people. I do now. I b/fed my two for as long as i 'wanted' so im v lucky in that respect. I still am b/feeding DS at 7 mths. Im so glad people are happy to share things on here. It can be so important to find out things like this.

PMSL at someone posting about women who didn't b/f 'not really wanting to'

You really do have to laugh in the face of ignorance. Wish I knew who it was. Pruni Tell me!!

I have learned that it is really better for me to avoid any threads that get into the bfing vs. bottlefeeding debate. It stirs up all kinds of sadness and grief and sometimes takes days for me to recover.

This is such an emotive subject also linked with type of labour.. I am b'feeding though was very hard to start with and the only reason I continued was 'cos ds knew what he was doing.I had no idea! this was following a traumatic birth which we were both lucky to get through ( but thats another tale) My point is outrageously sexist but reading this thread I thought that very few men would beat themselves up in the same way that women do but also how healthy it is to givemyself time to reflect greive explain whatever you want to call it so that you can get your head round it though it always takes longer than you think

it was on a Parp thread last week, Serahscarer

Thanks Dinny

Just sent this email to a friend who keeps telling me how she would wean her ds, except that nursing him is "just so easy".

"I guess it's time to let you in on this, but it's something that I have found to be very difficult to talk about face to face. I'm assuming you may remember that [ds] got nipple confusion and weaned quite early, hence all of the pumping. I'm sure my depression played some part in it as well. In any event, I am still grieving the fact that I did not get to breastfeed him as long as I would have liked. In fact, it never went well from about the second week on. So, it's very upsetting to me when I hear mothers talk about how easy it is. I know you don't mean anything by it, but I just felt like I needed to let you know. Even seeing someone nurse their child is very, very hard for me. I do think it's nice for [ds] and [her ds] to get together for playdates so I thought I just needed to get this out now since it may be a while before you do wean him."

I was so upset after she left I was shaking. It just seemed to bring back all of the hurt and disappointment all over again. Sometimes I feel like I'll never get past this.

lovely to see such an intelligent, sensitive discussion on this topic rather than the usual bunfight.

I know that I fell into the trap of "justifying" to all and sundry why I gave up bfing DS (readmission to hospital with dehydration and jaundice at 2.5 weeks completely killed my confidence.)I think that you can (not inevitably) fall into a great sense of guilt, as you have taken on board the breast is best message, but just not realised quite how difficult something so natural can be.

Jabberwocky -

jabberwocky,what a sad post.

It's really made me think.

Let us know what your friend says please.

XX

I dont usually come on these threads because of aforementioned reasons. Just wanted to say as a breastfeeder with my DS i can not understand the mentality of women who breastfed and feel the need to rant at those who didnt it is such a personal thing, was recently speaking to a women who asked how I had fed and she reckoned she wouldnt coz she thought it was gross, fair enough I thought not my feelings but I would never query it i dont see how it is my place or any womens to critise, we should support them bringing up babies is hard enough as it is.

This is a brilliant thread. Thanks for making me feel normal.
dd bottlefed from 5 days when I phoned my midwife in tears saying I just couldn't breastfeed. I had not slept at all for fear of the pain of the next feed and even felt angry at poor dd for what she was doing to me. I am sure that a lot of you who persisted but got through it still know what I'm talking about and I'm really chuffed for anyone who makes it work. I don't know why I couldn't 'stick with it' and I still feel guilty about it, especially when people glibly say that it 'gets so much better' if you can 'just keep going'. I really wanted to do it but the experience was just too awful for me to continue.
The most difficult thing was taking dd into hospital at 3 weeks old for an operation (hard enough)and the mum of the baby in the next bed was breastfeeding her 10 month old. I couldn't bare to look at them and I was certain that she was looking down her nose at me although nothing was said except one time when my dd was crying and she just said 'oh, do you still let her fall asleep in your arms then?' I felt like the most useless mother there has ever been and didn't feel I had anything to say to her. I'm sure she didn't mean to cause offence but I was pretty emotional anyway and would have told her to stuff off if I'd had the energy.
Yeah I think I went through a grieving process as much for dd as for myself since she was the one being denied all that good stuff.
Probably doesn't make much sense but it has helped to write it down!

Thanks everyone. haven't heard anything back yet, but I know she was running several errands after leaving my house (it's just 4:30 here) so it may be tonight before she checks email again. I do wonder how long/if ever I will be able to get past this. gemma97, I remember well those nights you are talking about. It was terrible. In fact, that is what started a lot of the problems as dh, trying to be helpful, insisted that I "take a break for 24 hours" and start expressing. I knew it was the wrong thing to do, but was hurting so much I didn't have the fortitude to resist his well-intentioned but bad advice.

Well, I did get a reply but not sure what to think of it. She basically seemed to get a little defensive and went into a really long discussion of how it wasn't easy for her to start with, etc. etc.

" I am sorry that I made you uncomfortable, and it wasn't easy to start out - in fact it wasn't easy until almost a year into it. Now, it seems too hard to stop. It is soooo much easier to let him nurse than cry or starve for a few days or whatever it will take. It is almost like I am too tired to try and I haven't a clue what to do and when to do it first. I don't know if you remeber though, it was so hard for us to get the hang of it - The first 10 weeks I couldn't even get him to latch on - then it still wasn't working, and as you can tell - he still will only go to the one breast, which is why I still am an A on one side and a C on the other. He doesn't nurse much during the day anymore, only when he is very very tired or/and needs to be comforted - like the scratch on his head. Some days I really want to wean him, other days I think "why?" It isn't hurting him any and it is convenient for me = so I will try not to do it in front of you, I don't want you to be uncomfortable, but I do want you to know it was anything but easy and if you would have had the luxury of staying home to work on it - I am sure it would have eventually worked out."

I actually feel no better and almost like I have been lectured on the subject I'm wondering now why I even bothered to say anything...

Also, she doesn't seem to realize that she has told me how easy bfing is almost every playdate that they have had together!!!