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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Turning the benefits of Breastfeeding into the risks of formula LIST

254 replies

rubberduckduck · 23/02/2011 17:19

What do people think of this?

here

Just how much of this can be proved with current studies? eg.less likely to be alive on their third birthday.

Talk about scare mongering?

OP posts:
4madboys · 23/02/2011 23:13

if you had read the thread stayingdavidtennantsgirl you would have seen that having mental health issues is an ok reason to formula feed, she told me so, but yes isnt it nice to be told that you are 'harming' your child by giving them formula Hmm

leonie the point i am trying to make to you, is that it is nice and polite to be CONSIDERATE of other peoples feelings, you seem to be incapable of doing this.

i am pro bfeeding, i think that its bloody lovely and is obviously natures way, but i also realise that is doesnt always work out and i make dam sure to be sympathetic towards those mothers for whom it doesnt work out. so yes talk about how good/healthy/normal etc bfeeding is but you dont have to do so in terms of saying that formula is harmful, or that we wont bond with our babies etc etc because some of that is blatantly untrue (having bfed and formula fed the bond i have with all my children is equal) and whilst bfeeding does give some benefits some such as an extra few IQ points are really neither here nor there and you really are not doing yourself any favours with your attitude, you simply come across as someone who is rude, judgemental and who has issues of their own that you need to deal with.

gaelicsheep · 23/02/2011 23:15

I don't know enough about that particular piece of research to know if it is not breastfeeding or whether it is actually formula that increases the risk. I know there are some actual risks to formula in itself as a substance. So it would depend.

But if I had seen that piece of information expressed like that, I reckon I would have thought to myself "I am breastfeeding, just not all the time so perhaps that's OK". I think it would have inspired me to get every drop of breastmilk into DS that I could. I don't know, I want to research that SIDS thing now.

I am sat here happily breastfeeding my 8 month old DD btw. Smile

HowBreastfeedingWorks · 23/02/2011 23:28

Aw, Gaelic, that's lovely!

I absolutely loathe "breast is best" as a slogan, btw - I much prefer something like "every breastfeed makes a difference" or, as you say, "every drop counts".

gaelicsheep · 23/02/2011 23:31

Smile It was NOT without problems, nor was it without formula! But thanks to everyone on here and all the advice and support I got from people like you after my first experience, we returned to EBF and never looked back!

4madboys · 23/02/2011 23:44

well done gaelic, thats lovely :)

and i agree hbw, its every drop counts, some of my children have had loads of bmilk, some not as much but they all had some and that counts for something :)

hairymelons · 23/02/2011 23:53

Everyone has already said it so much better than me but just wanted to add that I hate this kind of divisive anti-FF stuff. It doesn't help anyone to manage BF when they are struggling in the early weeks. It makes people that wanted to but couldn't feel like shit. And it winds everyone else up.

I'm all for giving women accurate information about the differences between bm and formula- you can only fully choose if you are fully informed. And I think the patchy bf support available to women who are trying to bf is a crying shame.

The 'breast is best' slogan is awful, and it isn't always true anyway. 'Best' is a very subjective thing- when you take into account the mother and her family's total situation, bf may not be for the best (I'm thinking of 4madboys situation for example).

It always struck me that anyone aggressively pro or anti anything has to be using the topic/ debate/ thread (ahem) as a sounding board for their own insecurities. If they truly cared about helping women that want to to bf, they would be trying to normalise it and acting as a source of support and information. Not help perpetuate the myth that it's for earth mothers and militants only.

I also cannot believe that someone can post with an anti-FF sentiment and not know that it will upset people. Which means they either don't care or actively want to upset people. Not on, and not bloody helpful.

gaelicsheep · 23/02/2011 23:55

And that's the thing isn't it? Rather than beating ourselves up about how much formula we gave to our kids, and being made to feel bad for it, isn't it much nicer to be proud of how much breastmilk they had and the good that it did? A much more positive message all round I think.

SueWhite · 23/02/2011 23:56

Some questions for LeonieDelt:

a) Do you say things like this in RL?
b) If yes to (a), do you have any friends (friends who aren't equally obsessed with lactation, that is)?

HowBreastfeedingWorks · 23/02/2011 23:56

GS, that is really fantastic - I am very glad things have worked out well for you.

4MB, yes, absolutely - the "some bf is better than no bf" message is one that has been lost in the "exclusive bf is the best of all" thing, I think.

I've just had a quick look at the search terms people use to find my blog and the two latest ones are:

"sma baby formula milk ingredients danger"

and

"aptamil side effects vomiting"

I often get people searching things about guilt over not breastfeeding - it is a real sadness that people feel and I would love for them to not feel it because they bf for as long as they want to. But before we get there, I think we have to acknowledge that for many, many women, it IS sadness, it is grief - and deal with that sensitively and kindly.

HowBreastfeedingWorks · 23/02/2011 23:59

Hairymelons, yes, exactly!

I think it is telling that Leonie said, "i am not trying to support breastfeeding".

I am, and I do. And I am happy to say that I have made a positive difference and I hope I will continue to do so.

gaelicsheep · 24/02/2011 00:02

You're right HBW, that message has been lost along the way.

You get someone like my HV telling women that one bottle of formula will undo ALL the good of breastfeeding.

Then, if you are on the verge of giving up after 3 or 4 weeks you get every HCP saying to you - you've done amazingly well, better than most women, blah blah blah. Yes but the guidelines say 6 months exclusively, I've done 3 weeks with some formula. How am I anything except a failure?

I think for this generation, possibly the next, 6 monthe EBF is unachievable for all but a few and the emphasis needs to shift. I firmly believe women are discouraged from even trying, and certainly discouraged for persevering to the best of thei ability.

gaelicsheep · 24/02/2011 00:03

ahem, discouraged from persevering to the best of their ability.

ladysybil · 24/02/2011 00:06

I am an incredibly pro breastfeeder, and against formula feeding but that original link has me horrified. FF isnt the devils spawn. its NOT THAT BAD. its just moms trying to do their best.

and breathe. walk away. this thread has probably already had more than enough people on here say the same sort of thing.

HowBreastfeedingWorks · 24/02/2011 00:07

I don't know about unachievable for all but a few for the next two generations - if bf is working well, it is much easier to just bf than it is to sod about with formula or food. But it has to be working well and in order to get to that position for women, better information needs to be widely available, and couched in the right language.

I'm working on it (on and outside the blog)!

4madboys · 24/02/2011 00:09

thankyou hairy melons and hbf you are so right it is a grieving process you go through when it doesnt work out and women do feel guilty, i had huge guilt issues when i stopped feeding ds4 and it took me a long time to work through them.

the reality is there needs to be more support to help women bfeed, support and help and the acknowledgement that they are doing something that can often be bloody hard work and they should feel proud of themselves for however much breastmilk their baby got, not failures because they didnt bfeed totally or till toddlerhood etc.

we are all mothers and we are all trying to do the best we can, we need to support each other in that!

adn i agree hbw, it is telling that leonie said she isnt trying to support/help bfeeding but she is happy to judge those that dont!

i just think people need to be polite and considerate towards others and their feelings, thats all :)

4madboys · 24/02/2011 00:11

anyhow, i am now off to bed, ihave stayed up far too late again and madame will be waking shortly for a feed and the boys will probably be up at 6am.... plus i have three extra children coming round tomorrow, i am such a glutton for punishment! Grin

gaelicsheep · 24/02/2011 00:11

I should have qualified that statement. Smile It is of course physically achievable. But changing the current anti breastfeeding culture is like turning around an oil tanker anf we've bearly started. There have been a couple of threads on here in the past few days that have made me so sad and agry, people's breastfeeding relationships being scuppered by HCPs and family before they've even begun. IMO we have a long long way to go before the support is there at a cultural level to enable more than a few women to do 6 months EBF. I'd like to be wrong though. Smile

hairymelons · 24/02/2011 00:11

'every drop counts' is a much better way of looking at it.

'I'm not trying to support breastfeeding' Sad What was the point in posting then? Oh, I see...

SueWhite, I always wonder the same thing about anti-WAHM or anti-anything really. None of my friends have done this having babies thing the same way...what do people do, cut off their old friends for people who do things exactly the same way?

gaelicsheep · 24/02/2011 00:13

Dear God. "anf we've bearly started". I am still one handed Grin

HowBreastfeedingWorks · 24/02/2011 00:14

Gaelic, I'll crack on with what I'm up to and we'll see about turning it round a bit more quickly!

Night, all!

gaelicsheep · 24/02/2011 00:16

Yes, it's silly hour. Night. x

FunnysInTheGarden · 24/02/2011 00:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

babymutha · 24/02/2011 00:52

PERSONALLY - i think it is fanaticism like this that kept me starving my new born baby when I had PND/thyrotoxicosis and couldn't see the wood for the trees.
Breast that is not working, is not best. Definitely not best. And formula saved her life.
Had I read this fanatical list I might have gone another day trying to make the exclusive breast feeding work. And maybe that would have been the day she stopped living.
After being forced to give her formula (THANK GOD) but crying and screaming each time she had to have the 'evil bottle' she stopped nearly dying and I mix fed her until she started on solids.
Then I breast fed her til she was over 2. I only stopped because of the thyrotoxicosis.
Apparently 2% of women have significant problems breastfeeding. I was one of them. I wanted to exclusively breast feed more than anything. And I am a stubborn and strong willed person who was very, very ill.
I still have pictures of my starving baby to look at.
They still make me cry.
But thanks to formula I also have my beautiful, strong willed, stubborn 3 year old to look at too. And I am immensely grateful for that.

cloudydays · 24/02/2011 02:00

babymutha I could have written your post almost word-for-word (except that I carried on combo feeding but didn't get close to 2 years - well done you!).

DH and I were just looking at DD's newborn pictures yesterday, and after all the loveliness of reliving the first few days, I started crying as we got to day five, day six, and the pictures showed an infant with increasingly dry lips, yellowed skin and eyes, and the (now) unmistakeable look of illness and hunger. I remember that after the emergency hospital admission, the IV fluids, the introduction of the dreaded formula, and the overwhelming relief and gratitude I felt at bringing home a healthy baby who had survived her mother's serious lapse in judgement, I did beat myself up in an awful way about the FACT that I couldn't produce enough milk for my baby.

I've never been so vulnerable in my life - feeling that I'd failed in the first task of the most important role I'd ever have, feeling I'd already failed this perfect, precious child that I had been blessed with. At that time, reading a list like the one linked in the OP, or reading posts like Leonie's, would without exaggeration have been reasons for me to lie awake crying and hating myself while my no-longer-hungry little girl slept blissfully unaware beside me.

I will always carry guilt about my daughter's first weeks of life, but with perspective I know what that guilt is really about: it's about the fact that I allowed my belief in what I thought to be true about infant feeding (that nobody really has supply issues, that breast is always best, that to give her formula would be to fail her) to cloud my own judgement, my own instinct, and my own responsibility to do what was best for my daughter. That is, to not sacrifice her health on the high altar of ebf.

Gaelicsheep, you are absolutely right to split hairs about the semantics. Even after we started supplementing with formula, I always fed my daughter while skin-to-skin, and tried to make the whole feeding experience as bonding and nurturing and lovely as it could possibly be. That would have been very very hard to do if I had stayed in the mindset that by feeding my baby formula I was not actually nourishing her but in fact was actively harming her.

It's important that people understand that breastfeeding is the norm, so I agree that information should be framed in terms of risk rather than benefit. But there is a world of difference between saying that yes, there are risks if you don't exclusively breastfeed (here, if "don't" means "can't" for you, you might find some way to forgive yourself for your body's failing), and saying that the formula itself is dangerous.

Particularly when we know that some women have no other option but to use formula, it is unspeakably cruel to use language that, for some, is likely turn every single feeding session - which should be an opportunity for bonding, sweetness, and lifelong memories - into an exercise in guilt, fear, and self-recrimination. Because those memories last a lifetime, too.

peppapighastakenovermylife · 24/02/2011 07:29

cloudydays - That is one of the most eloquent and so, so true posts I have ever read on mumsnet. You made me cry Blush

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