Breast is best. Or is it?

[RubyBuckleberry]

video g by Dr Karleen Gribble exploring the damaging impact of the language we use when talking about how breast is 'best'.

tiktock - I don't think we get breastfeeding promotion right either. It seems to me to be a terrible con-trick to bang on about the health effects of bf/not bf without sufficient support in place to make sure bf is a happy, effective experience

Once again, very very wise and sensible words. I have never spent so much of my time agreeing with someone who has poler opposite views to me on an issue! :)

Interesting about attitues in scandanavia.

"I only think peope shouldn't refer to the loo when they keep telling the person with the colostomy bag how much better and healther it is to pee au naturel, and how bad colostomy bags are for your health"

that's actually a really interesting point TW. The problem is that lots of women and babies in this country have 'colostomy bags' when they didn't really need to have them and could have enjoyed peeing au naturel had they had the right information and support. And companies market colostomy bags as if it is the normal thing to do and peeing au naturel is somehow special and extra and 'tesco finest' - something unattainable for some, and btw the colostomy bag companies are more than happy to keep perpetuating the myth that peeing au naturel is best and desirable but colostomy bags are ok too and pretty close to the real thing?!

blimey, when i think of it like that, that is just criminal!

but i completely understand how given that lots of people are now stuck with colostomy bags, it must be utterly galling to hear how peeing au naturel is actually much less risky for them and their babies

What have I started!

lol i know!

Thank you, toddlerwrangler.

I don't know why you think our views are so different.

Your experience - which I read on here and remember - was dreadful.

I do think that when women feel terrible about formula feeding, they are right to criticise anyone who judges them or dismisses them for not trying hard enough or whatever drivel ignorant people can come out with. But they are wrong to feel uniquely victimised in this.

There is plenty of judging and criticism and stupidity shown to breastfeeding mothers as well. I would say that in the main, confident breastfeeding mothers can usually dismiss the daftness and even laugh about it, just as confident ff mothers can - but not everyone is confident.

On another thread, a nurse reports colleagues asking her to remove her bagged and tagged expressed breastmilk because the sight of it in the workplace fridge was offensive. She was very upset about this, and no wonder.

We also read posts from mothers whose confidence in themselves as bf mothers is zero, just as women who ff may be low in confidence.

I suggest that at least some of women's negative, defensive feelings about formula feeding come from within themselves - it's a deep sadness at the recognition of a missed experience, disappointment at plans going awry, and a perfectly understandable sensitivity to criticism, and a tendency to see criticism and judgment where it really is not, too.

I don't think less emphasis on the health effect of formula feeding would make much difference to people's distress over formula feeding - that's not to say people should accept judgment and criticism because that is cruel and unkind. But I think the sadness would still be there, even if no other statistic, study, research, post on MN, ever happened. Time and self-acceptance make the distress less acute, not a collective vow of silence.

Lovin the colostomy bag analogies :) :) :)

Sorry I know I have jumped in late to this, but have been following since last night. I formula fed both my dds and will do the same with 3rd (hopefully about 6 weeks away, but the way I'm feeling today, could be sooner . I do understand that b/f is better for my baby, but I choose not to do it. I have never felt guilty about my choice and whilst I know that a great deal of posters on this particular forum do, I think that is more to do with the fact that it didn't fit into their plan of being the perfect start for their baby, in the same way that some mothers are distraught by the fact that they had to have a c-section or be induced.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say, just rambling, in case you hadn't guessed Just to agree with something tiktok said in a previous post women beat themselves up about everything, if you want guilt, try missing your dds first school sports day through work "and everyone elses Mummy was there apart from you", later proved to be a slight exaggeration on the part of a four year old

As a mother who started to breastfeed but gave up after 36 hours largely due to lack of support and information, I whole heartedly agree that breastfeeding should not be held up as different or 'best'.

I certainly think it should be the first choice for mothers and I intend to try best feeding again with my next one. However, if it turns out that I just don't like it, even when we have the latch right and my nipples aren't bleeding, open, sores after 24 hours, I will feel no guilt in FF. saying that I would still encourage other new mothers to at least give BF a go.

BUT

When talking about risk, people need to be very, very careful.

Comments like: but there are dangers of ff. although a more accurate terms would be 'risks of formula feeding' its not demonising, its presenting fact. are not helpful and are certainly not 'fact'.

There are no inherent risks or dangers that are specific to formula feeding (as long as it is prepared correctly). There are increased risks of certain things and that distinction is extremely important.

To say that there are risks or dangers without that pre-requisite indicates that whatever the risk is, it is specific to formula fed babies - and short of food poisoning from poor prep, I haven't seen one single health risk that cannot also apply to BF babies (even if the risk is smaller for BF babies).

There is also the issue that generally, people really have no idea what the reality of risk calculations are. This article explains what I am trying to get at better than I can.

IMO, the best way to 'promote' breastfeeding, rather than pitting it against formula and confusing people with health benefits and risk factors, is to promote the things that breastfeeding has that formula feeding doesn't:

It's free(people always respond to cost savings)
It's less hassle as unless you are expressing there are no bottles to sterilise.
It's always at the right temperature (no trying to find bottle warmers or begging restaurants to let you have a bowl of hot water)
It's on tap

By promoting these things, you are appealing to people in a way that makes more sense to their day to day lives, in a way that is solid an tangible, and not to some possible health risk that may or may not happen no matter how the baby is fed.

Big billboards with a nice shot of a women wearing a white shirt and breastfeeding her baby with the slogan "Breast Feed - it's natural and free" will convince a lot more women to try and stick with breastfeeding than arguments about how well iron is digested and absorbed.

Then, once you have people's attention, you can make further information available about the additional benefits of BF over FF. But by starting with the health issues, you immediately run into the very natural "But it won't happen to me or mine" instinct and the anecdotal arguments of "But so and so breastfed and her baby was still in hospital loads with bronciolitis / has asthma / eczma".

lenak you say: "There are no inherent risks or dangers that are specific to formula feeding (as long as it is prepared correctly). "

Not true.

"There are increased risks of certain things and that distinction is extremely important."

I don't see why. There are inherent risks and increased risks, so making a distinction is not even necessary.

"To say that there are risks or dangers without that pre-requisite indicates that whatever the risk is, it is specific to formula fed babies - and short of food poisoning from poor prep I haven't seen one single health risk that cannot also apply to BF babies (even if the risk is smaller for BF babies)."

Why dismiss food poisoning from poor preparation? You can't eliminate salmonella or enterobakter Sakersakii from formula, even if you prepare it properly, though you do reduce the risk....and that risk is inherent.

The risk of NEC is inherent in formula feeding, too.

I am loathe to continue, as this is to demonise formula in a way, and I feel sensitive to the feelings of people who don't like these arguments.

But I am even more unhappy about letting something that's just not correct go uncorrected :)

So shoot me :)

tiktok I didn't dismiss food poisoning, I said short of food poisening, there wasn't a health risk that could not also apply to BF babies.

An inherent risk is one that is impossible to manage, however, the risk of food poisoning from formula is possible to manage through correct preparation methods.

Yes, there is still some risk - but it is a manageable risk and therefore not inherent.

Also, as food source is not the only way to catch salmonella, it is not a risk that exclusive to formula fed babies compared for breast fed babies.

Sorry - that was badly worded - obviously the risk is still inherent.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there are no risks that are Exclusive to formula fed babies - I guess inherent was probably the wrong choice of word to start with.

I think the ear infection thing is more to do with the logistics of latch - the way the tongue moves and ears wiggle etc rather than milk pooling by the ears (at least I have never heard the milk pooling line) . Breastfeeding and formula feeding are different methods of getting milk physiologically - one reason why nipple confusion can come about.

Ah - perhaps not quite what you mean Lenak but the one risk exclusively to FF babies I can think of is in emergency situations - you don't run out of breastmilk but if you can't get to the shop you can run out of formula milk.

But no, I understand what you mean

As for the breastfeeding message - I agree. But actually think the best way to promote it is for more women to get out there doing it. The more it is seen, the more it will become 'normal' again. However...to do that you need women to breastfeed. Feels like a vicious cycle!

ToddlerWrangler and others - I totally understand about guilt causing PND. I mix fed due to trouble BFing, and only managed BFing thanks to nipple shields so never got the fully intimate BFing experience with her.

Having had a second child at a different hospital and getting FANTASTIC help, I can pretty much entirely blame the problems on poor support. I don't think I'll ever forget one particular HV who came over when DD was one week old, I was in tears and riddled with guilt about topping up with formula. She just scoffed and said "oh for goodness sake just give her a bottle, it's not a big deal"

If BFing was acknowledged as the norm rather than an Optional Extra, NHS would perhaps be forced to give more training and support. I was shocked when my friend was looking at midwifery courses and there was hardly any BFing training at all. It was seen as 'extra credit' FFS.

I have to disagree with you Lenak, sorry. That Sakasaki disease that the belgian babies died of was exclusively due to contaminated formula. a breastfed baby is not going to be exposed and therefore will simply not be at risk of contracting it.

Support is definitely the main issue.

DD was born at 4am - she was latched on for her first feed at about 6am which lasted about 20 minutes, she had a brief feed at 2pm and then woke at 8:30pm for a feed which lasted 2.5 hours.

She woke again at 2:30am for another feed - after an hour and a half, she was showing no signs of finishing and I was in agony (I had no idea feeds could last that long) I called for the midwife who looked extremely pissed off and just told me that "Sore nipples are only to be expected, it's perfectly normal" and walked out.

She finished feeding at 5am. She woke again at 8:30am and I started to feed her - we had to stop while the doctor came in to do the checks and she was still feeding at 10:30am when they were discharging us. She screamed her head off while I was getting dresses - obviously still hungry.

When we got home, she went straight on for another feed - an hour later she had a mouth full of blood and was crying every time she was removed from the breast, I was in agony (at the time, it was worse than actually giving birth) and in tears. My mom offered to make up a bottle I refused at first, but she told me that it was OK and I just remember an overwhelming sense of gratitude and relief.

DD had formula for the rest of that day. When she woke that night, I was starting to feel guilty so tried to breast feed again but the pain was unbelievable.

I stuck to formula after that, and apart from some early guilt, was pretty comfortable about my decision.

I was in no frame of mind at the time to jump onto the computer for support and as a professional had told me "it was perfectly normal", I thought that if this is normal you can keep it. Of course, having researched it since, I know it was not normal and was probably due to bad latch. If I had received more support that first night, I probably would have continued to BF for at least a couple of months, if not more.

Thanks, Toddlerwrangeler, you say everything that I think, but am too inarticulate to communicate clearly!

lenak , yes, you said 'short of food poisoning' as if we could discount it as unimportant. Why would food poisoning be an unimportant factor in infant health?

Riven, you said campaigning went in one ear and out the other, after I pointed out to you that your impression bf stats had not changed in 18 years was wrong. So how do you account for the consistent rise in bf initiation and maintenance over the past 20-35 years?

It was not solely sloganising, for sure. But the focus of attention on training, education and promotion that makes up the campaigning on this issue has made a difference - shown quite clearly in the stats.

tiktok Sorry if you read it that way, it is not what was meant.

I don't think it is unimportant, but I do think it is an easily managed risk with correct preparation. Also as food poisoning can actually be transmitted to infants via means other than consuming food (poor hand washing by infected parents or siblings, touching raw poultry, contact - direct and indirect - with reptiles for example), it is still not exclusive to FF babies.

Thanks MrsHavisham, I take that as a real compliment as I am the least articulate person in the world.

Terible grasp of the English Language + short fuse = lots of internet arguements for me!

bf is natural and it was here for ages. I dont demonise ff, if you arent able to bf, fair enough, but why chose it over when you can? Thats the thing I dont understand. Everybody i know, when they discovered Ive been bf my dd for over 2 years they were shocked and I dont know why tbh. Otoh mentioning actual risks of ff is a fair point!

Ok ... well food poisoning due to incorrectly prepared / stored fornula is