Q and A with Mike Brady from Baby Milk Action

[RachelMumsnet]

We're inviting you to send in your questions to Mike Brady, Campaigns and Networking Coordinator at Baby Milk Action.

Mike graduated in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and has worked in Africa as an engineer and science teacher. At Baby Milk Action, he monitors the baby food industry and campaigns to hold them to account.

Baby Milk Action is a non-profit organisation which aims to save lives and to end the avoidable suffering caused by inappropriate infant feeding. It is the UK member of the International Baby Food Action Network (IBFAN), a network of over 200 citizens groups in more than 100 countries.

Baby Milk Action's slogan is: "Protecting breastfeeding - Protecting babies fed on formula". It is perhaps best known for promoting a boycott of Nestlé, but also works with national governments and international bodies on regulations and marketing standards.

Mike was seen earlier this year outside Nestlé (UK) HQ in the guise of [[http://info.babymilkaction.org/emailnestle
Mr. Henry Nastie]], explaining Nestlé's marketing practices.

Send your questions in to Mike before midday on Friday 9th December and we'll link through to his answers from this thread later the following week.

and aye, tiktok is spot on with the rolling eyes at crazy suggestions wrt the sale of formula.

MilaMae: I have read the thread. I have now re-read it and seen no harsh words. Maybe some silly comments.

The only conclusion I can reach is that you take all criticisms of formula as a personal insult and a judgment on how you fed your baby.

Which, ps, you shouldn't do. How you feed your baby is your own business.

I don't feel guilty what so ever,you're putting your issues on me.

And Tiktok I'll be as outraged as I much as I like thanks,it's an open forum.

I have mentioned my "outrage" as you put it several times to illustrate the point that this thread instead of being a forum to put questions to Mike Brady is being used as a vehicle to demonize(yes I will use that word again as it's appropriate)formula with statements totally uncalled for. It's wrong and I'm not comfortable with it.

Sorry if that makes uncomfortable reading but personally I think any new and vulnerable ffeeders should be able to read about Nestle without the usual rather nasty formula comments so I'll post what I like thanks.

Oh, FGS, MilaMae.

Yes, be as outraged as you want to be. Go ahead and think that any discussion about how formula can be marketed ethically is a personal criticism of you and a 'demonisation' (ha!) of formula itself.

But don't use your outrage to derail this thread. In fact, surely to goodness you have been outraged enough today? Are you not a bit tired? :)

Why would reading about Nestle upset 'new and vulnerable ffeeders'? Would not 'new and vulnerable' ffeeders be interested in the products they are using, and how they are sold?

Where has there been a 'nasty' comment about formula?

(I do hope you are not going to mention supermarkets again.)

Not entirely sure what you're on about Tiktok.

If you read my last post you'll see I'm all for info on Nestle but not the normal anti formula crap which I hasten to add I'm not alone on feeling uncomfortable with.

I find your tone rather aggressive.

I formula fed both my children from birth.

I am a supported of BMA and have boycotted Nestle for years

I support other women to breastfeeed

I support other women to bottle feed safely

no agenda or demonisisng here

Don't intend to sound aggresive, and I don't think I have been - exasperated, a bit, yes :)

MilaMae - you are the one who entered the thread complaining of an "anti formula, scaremongering witch hunt" ...and that uppped the temperature somewhat.

Not sure what you mean by 'anti formula crap' - you can't assume that 'anti formula marketing' means someone is 'anti formula'.

A question for Mike Brady: how can this distinction be made clearer?

I would like to clarify my views on formula and supermarkets. Firstly, I would like to point out that my baby would have died without initially having formula although I sucessfully went onto breastfeed.

Formula companies consistently ignore laws on advertising and agressively promote their products without due regard for public health. Formula has been clinically proven to be not as good as breastmilk and there is ample research to support the short and long term health risks to both a baby and a mother of using formula. The reality is in this country, that people are unaware of the research or if they are aware because of their own experiences (clearly awful ones in many instances, where people don't receive proper help and support and get told all sorts of rubbish by HCPs) they get very defensive and view people who promote breastfeeding as nazi's etc. There is a public health issue at the heart of this problem which should be addressed and people should be looking at the wider evidence based picture.

I agree with you, ohanotherone. It is possible for formula to be on sale openly and to be widely available, and for all those concerns about advertising and health to be met - no need for its sale to be banned from supermarkets.

The mark up on formula is massive, too. No reason for it not to be consistently low priced and it could be, because there would be no money spent on marketing.

A question for Mike:

As I understand it from "UNICEF stats www.childinfo.org/breastfeeding_infantfeeding.html etc..the majority of babies in the developing world who are not exclusively breastfed are not given other milk or given formula, but water or complimentary foods traditional in that community such as maize meal porridge.

So the challenge of enabling more women to exlusively breast feed for longer and save the lives of 140 million children a year is not simply one of breastmilk vs formula (or of poor people vs big corporates) it is also about challenging some of the traditional practices handed down from Grandmas etc...

So the question is, do you think that there is any hope, that a company such a Nestle could be a force for good. They have has so much marketing expertise, scientific research and global reach, and an interest in selling products to children and families throughout their lives - do you think there is any hope that they might become a force for good in promoting sound nutrition, from breastfeeding to eventual weening and beyond. Do you see any sign of companies doing this?

I don't think people are against promoting breast feeding and I do think people are well aware of research which is why most mums like myself at least try to breastfeed.

If I hadn't been inundated with the pro bf literature which I was I wouldn't have bf my twin boys and dd at all let alone the 6 weeks I did manage. Believe you me I didn't battle at it for any other reason than it was best for them. No the reason I gave up was lack of support which I really think the emphasis needs to be shifted towards.

The info is out there,mums don't want anymore. They know only too well what is best.I'd be amazed if you could find any mother who didn't know.To be frank it's all pretty pointless in this country when the systems really aren't in place to ensure mums continue to bf.

You can campaign all you like but it isn't going to make a jot of difference until mothers get more support-how can it? They'll still give up if it becomes impossible to continue. A info leaflet doesn't suddenly make everything easy.

I would imagine in Africa things are different. Do mothers still have more support from their mothers and the wider community? Also obviously campaigning is crucial for such countries as it simply saves lives.

Perhaps a better idea would be for formula products to be in plain packaging with similar typefaces and the instructions on how to prepare in much bigger and clearer writing so that more space is given to ensuring that parents can safely prepare the product.

I don't think formula companies give much thought to the fact that people using their products may have visual impairment, may not be able to read instructions properly due to language barriers or learning difficulties or may live in poor conditions in this country. Also if a parent is on a very low income then the proportion of their income spent on formula is huge is comparsion to the actual cost of the basic ingredients whereas breast milk needs needs no preparation, does not discriminate and is always sanitary. So to promote formula as an equal alternative to breastmilk is unacceptable. Their messages work, A girl at work said "I will formula feed because I want my husband to share the feeding". Where has she got that message from, if not advertising???

ohanotherone - or should you be renamed 'voice of reason'?

Agree with you. The problem isn't formula, or using formula, it's the companies that use it to make profits. Of course they use aggressive marketing tactics and aggressive marketing campaigns to encourage the use of formula, preferably their own brand, all in the name of profits. Advertising works, else companies wouldn't spend millions of pounds each year on researching, developing and checking that their advertising is effective. Also hence the disregard for babies' health in the third world.

Personally I would like to see the FF advertising ban extended to follow on milk and all advertising aimed at children banned. People are more than capeable of choosing car seats for their DCs without the overwhelming amount of advertising that FF companies expose the public to (especially late at night when tired women are trying to feed their DCs) so surely people are capeable of choosing a formula without being bombarded with images and advertising surrounding follow on milk.

It's almost as though the FF companies are trying to encourage individuals to stop BFing and start FFing as soon as their DCs are 6 months old, and by default promoting their FF milk for younger babies.

I don't think FF should be banned BTW (I would be very dead without FFing, not having survived my babyhood) but I think there needs to be a LOT more honesty, which is difficult as lots of women (seem to) find making the decision to FF a very emotional and difficult one.

The BMA has some very interesting information and seems to present a very balanced view. Promoting SAFE use of FF is, surely, something that benefits us all?

MilaMae I still hear you, although most don't. This has turned into a FF/BF frenzy as usual with all the 'faces' turning out to support one another. All I can say is well done for carrying on. I have tried it before to no avail, so all power to you for standing your ground.

Cue loads of from the 'not for profit organisation folks, but who nonetheless pay their employees, a number of whom post in this topic' and then cue loads more and

Not to mention the inevitable 'you still have issues about BF brigade'

Ahhh, so glad it's been moved from the MN 'topspot'

MilaMae, you are right that no amount of campaigning or promotion will assist women to bf without the support and the knowledge and the cultural and social acceptance of bf that enables them to do so.

One part of enabling is to restrict the marketing of formula, which makes ff sound like an easy, problem-free alternative. FF is not inherently easier than bf (of course it may be, if bf is not going well) and it is not without its own problems.

Baby Milk Action campaigns for fuller information about formula feeding, so mothers don't have to interpret marketing strategies or decide how much of the sloganising to believe.

Marketing of formula works at a cultural level to affect perceptions.

Women who bf are often beset with doubt and lack of confidence - you can read these every day on mumsnet. There are threads at the moment, where women describe what sound like normal baby behaviours which they worry mean their baby is not satisfied by bf, and needs formula.

The heavy marketing of formula contributes to this lack of confidence.

Funnys, you enjoy contributing to any apparent 'frenzy' that's going, and are never slow at being in there near the start.

yes tiktok maybe it is because I am as passionate about supporting FF mothers as you are about supporting BF mothers. But nice try.

[hmmm]

A formula feeder said that six months of formula is like one McDonald's meal on a long American road where there are no other options.

I formula fed, I had no choice I was too ill to do anything else. I do feel some guilt (crazy I know, I was seriously ill having reacted to a general anaesthetic and my baby was seriously ill having been taken out very earl, so not like I had any say in the matter) but I'm realistic, I know what the ingredients list is and I know that it is a fact, not a dig at me. I never understood how people can be offended at an ingredients list or statistics or whatever else. How do you get offended at facts?

you can be passionate about supporting ff without taking every scrutiny of formula/advertising thereof /politics thereof as a personal attack .

I am all for safe , reasonably priced formula, no gimmicks, no heavy marketing.. to see an end of threads like ' how do i make formula up safely?' , ' which formula is better, the MW/HV said X is better/the most like breastmikl ......'

You can also be passionate about supporting bf without taking any positive mention of ff as a personal attack.

MilaMae - if you genuinely think that all women know the facts about formula you are seriously naive.

Mike - beyond supporting by way of membership and raising awareness of Nestle's antics, what can we do to help BMA and help spread the message about safe feeding (irrelevant of method/milk given)?

Has mumsnet considered separating the breast and bottle feeding forum into two to avoid all these arguments? I think the issue is particularly contentious on mumsnet as it is middle class forum (sorry but it is) and therefore there are few people on here who choose to FF, more they FF because could not BF. So they are bound to be upset by very pro BF people. On places like baby centre there is far less debate on sensitivity.

That way the FF's could get all their questions answered without entering into a BF debate and the BF's could focus on BF.

Zimm - been discussed many times. Consensus is that it works ok the way it is. Many people do both, after all.

I don't think someone who ff after wanting to bf is inevitably upset by 'pro bf people' and many people who ff after wanting to bf remain 'pro bf'.

People who ask questions on mumsnet about ff get their questions answered courteously and informatively, in my experience.

Ill-feeling only gets stirred up when people make an unthinking (and occasionally, though rarely, unkind) remark about formula that rides roughshod over people's sensitivities, or when people make the error of saying that being anti formula marketing is the same as being anti formula or judgmental of formula feeders, or if they use anecdotal stuff to 'prove' there is no/little difference between ff and bf.

The rest of the time things are ok :)