Q and A with Mike Brady from Baby Milk Action

[RachelMumsnet]

We're inviting you to send in your questions to Mike Brady, Campaigns and Networking Coordinator at Baby Milk Action.

Mike graduated in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and has worked in Africa as an engineer and science teacher. At Baby Milk Action, he monitors the baby food industry and campaigns to hold them to account.

Baby Milk Action is a non-profit organisation which aims to save lives and to end the avoidable suffering caused by inappropriate infant feeding. It is the UK member of the International Baby Food Action Network (IBFAN), a network of over 200 citizens groups in more than 100 countries.

Baby Milk Action's slogan is: "Protecting breastfeeding - Protecting babies fed on formula". It is perhaps best known for promoting a boycott of Nestlé, but also works with national governments and international bodies on regulations and marketing standards.

Mike was seen earlier this year outside Nestlé (UK) HQ in the guise of [[http://info.babymilkaction.org/emailnestle
Mr. Henry Nastie]], explaining Nestlé's marketing practices.

Send your questions in to Mike before midday on Friday 9th December and we'll link through to his answers from this thread later the following week.

[lowercase]

[maisyandpandulce]

I live overseas. Nestle is ubiquitous - in the way that, oh I don't know, bread, is in the UK. Any hints for boycotting things here?

[MilaMae]

And yes until Mike Brady has had his nipples shredded by a voracious chomping baby I think he is slightly hampered in understanding many areas of breast feeding.

[lowercase]

you are missing the point here mila

[confuddledDOTcom]

It's not a breast v formula issue, Mike's not campaigning to get all women breastfeeding, telling them how to breastfeed or telling people they shouldn't be formula feeding. If he was then I'd be amongst the people saying "what would he know?" and yes I have done that before about men who think they know all when it comes to birth and breastfeeding. This is about the unethical practices of certain companies that put babies at risk, certainly British babies but particularly African babies.

I find it disgusting that people are so wrapped up in their own infant feeding experiences that they don't believe African babies should be protected!

And seriously, if you think this is a breast v formula issue, go and read the boycott list and see how many times formula comes up on there.

[Hopelesslydisorganised]

Well said confuddled - am actuallt staggered that so many posters are spectacularly missing the point of Baby Milk Action. Just look at how they break the code every single day in advertising to see why we need Baby Milk action.

As a midwife and a health visitor I am exposed to their stuff everyday from offered diary covers to pens as they try and find ways of getting their products into peoples homes. In many cases they have got wise to the "cover up the name or scratch it off" ploy. Now they have dedicated colours or symbols which are instantly recognisable. Anyway of getting HCPs to take their advertising into YOUR home without your consent or knowledge. They are not stupid.


And know this - apart from one or two specialised milks the formulas are largely all the same - slight differences in make up but otherwise do exactly the same thing. If one milk doesn't suit (C+G did not suit my son) you choose another - Simples.

Forget all the prebiotics/probiotics/LCPs stuff - the companies increasingly get into trouble for some of their claims. So if you choose to bottlefeed - choose a milk (check out the companie's websites for advice if you need to look at what is largely the same information and claims). Feed your baby with formula (as I did too) and if it doesn;t suit try a different formula.

[Hopelesslydisorganised]

• apologies for typos and spellings - tis too early for me.

[marzipananimal]

MilaMae I agree that int this country, lack of skilled support for bf mothers (especially at the start) is the main problem.
However, formula companies wouldn't spend loads of money on advertising if it didn't work. If they manage to lead people to believe that bf is difficult and not the norm and not really worth bothering with anyway, then more people are likely to have difficulties bfing and the support needed is less likely to be available.

[cantthinkofagoodname]

Hi Mike,

in my local branch of a well known chemist chain there are always promotional shelf labels with the first stage baby milks, advertising extra reward points for baby items for parenting club members. They don't say that first stage formulas are excluded, and so imply that first stage baby milk is part of the promotion.

I tried to point out to the store manager that this was misleading people as they are not allowed to give points on first stage formula. He didn't seem to know what I was talking about and said that if anyone complained about the lack of reward points for the formula, they would honour the promotion and give reward points on the first stage formula.

Is there any legal requirement for people selling formula to be aware of the rules surrounding promotion? What can I do to ensure that my local branch of this chemist chain are obeying the law when they don't seem to even acknowledge its existance?

[SarahAggie]

I very rarely post on MN but I had to respond to "Formula feeding is costing this country a huge amount in baby hospital admissions, and acute and chronic illnesses."

I am a new mother who has just been through a very traumatic first few weeks with my son.
We were readmitted to Neo Natal 6 days after birth due to severe weight loss. If it wasn't for formula my little boy would be a very sick baby.

I continue to persevere with breast feeding, expressing and topping up with formula and will continue to do so. I am unable to produce enough to feed my baby and this is incredibly upsetting.

To imply that formula is evil is very damaging to mothers who have no choice.
Far more babies are readmitted to Neo Natal now that breastfeeding is on the rise.

Far more support is needed for those of us that want to breast feed but need formula as well.
It takes a great deal of time and commitment to continue to breastfeed when you are in my situation and being judged in this way will only encourage more of us to give up breastfeeding all together.

[confuddledDOTcom]

Sadly though SarahAggie, it is correct. There are some conditions not seen in breastfed babies and some that are more likely to be seen in formula fed babies. Formula fed babies are more likely to spend longer in hospital for the same visit as a breastfed baby and more likely to be put on a drip for the same condition.

Yes formula plays a vital role in a world where breastfeeding support is hard to find but that doesn't change that it is not a living substance, it doesn't adapt to each feed, it isn't a complete meal, it is contaminated (the recent beetle contamination is the obvious one but as I've already said there are conditions only found in formula fed babies, you also have the fact that formula is not sterile and rarely made up following the new instructions to ensure it's sterilised), is not bio-available so includes an incredible surplus to make sure baby gets enough, has ingredients that have no place in a baby's diet (MSG, Free aspartic acid, BPA, Fluorosis, DHA/ARA, Hexane, Mercury, Melamine, Cyanuric acid, Formaldehyde, Antinutrients/soy, Bacteria).

If you were on a long journey (works more if you think about those long roads in the US or Australia that have no civilisation for days) and were hungry and the only place you found to stop was McDonald's, you'd stop there. You'd get your fill and leave satisfied. Does that change the fact McDonald's is not the healthiest diet? Do you defend McDonald's because it kept you alive on that journey?

Guess what? My children were formula fed before I met them. They were 5 and 3 hours old before I could see them and they already had tubes down their noses. The first (5 hours old) was on formula pretty much for her first two weeks and had a lot of top ups after that because of bad HV advice. I was grateful for all the times we had to take her back to hospital and could breastfeed her knowing I was keeping her off a drip (yes, I've been told "She'd be on a drip if you weren't breastfeeding") and going home early (been told that too "As you're breastfeeding we're happy to let you go home today as she will get fluids, if she was formula fed we'd have to keep her in so she could be on a drip")

I'm grateful my children had formula when there was nothing else available to them but I will never pretend it's anything other than it is.

[Ceidlihgirl]

Bottlefeeding mums perceive Baby Milk Action to be anti formula. Whilst this may not be the case, that perception will affect the credibility of anything you say. Does your organisation need a makeover?

[Beveridge]

Earplugs so would you object to any male doing a Q&A on breastfeeding on the grounds that they (presumably!) have never lactated?

What an odd thing to say. Does that mean Jack Newman wouldn't be allowed on either?!

[crikeybadger]

Ceilidhgirl- I'm not sure many of the bottlefeeding mums who have said that have actually looked at the BMA website.

In bold letters across the top, their strap line reads: Protecting breastfeeding- Protecting babies fed on formula.

SarahAggie- sorry you've had a hard time. Formula (or donated bm) is certainly a godsend for sick babies. No one is saying that formula is evil and no one is judging you.

[Ceidlihgirl]

crikey that is exactly my point . If one of Baby Milk Action's aims is to get info across on formula to mums in the UK who use it, then it is a lost cause if your image is such that your target market think you're bonkers extremists and won't even look at your website.

[Ceidlihgirl]

Just to be clear, I am not saying that I think Mike is anything of the kind , just trying to explain the point I was trying to make.

[BertieBottlesOfMulledWine]

Yes agree totally with Ciedlihgirl. I don't know what BMA could do about it though. If you look at their site it's clear they aren't extremists and they care about breastfed and bottlefed babies and want to promote GOOD information going out there. Getting upset over the Nestle boycott is misguided IMO - it's not about stopping formula from being made available, it's about stopping awful marketing practices in the third world, where (incorrectly made) formula IS a very real danger to babies.

[crikeybadger]

Ceilidh- I take your point.

I think some people just wade in grinding their axes without really looking at the whole issue that BMA is talking about.

[MilaMae]

So now formula is being compared to McDonalds-totally and utterly appalling . Just waiting for it to be likened to smoking,called poison etc,etc.

This is exactly my point why BMA shouldn't have been invited on here-extremist views being expressed under the guise of looking out for African mothers.

I do boycott Nestle thankyou very much.I most certainly am not missing the point either. How patronizing and fundamentally incorrect.

I simply don't take kindly to posters who claim that anybody not partial to extremist anti formula comments don't give a monkey's about 3rd world mothers because many do.

[BertieBottlesOfMulledWine]

Mila, that's not what I said at all FF and BF is a contentious topic and it is going to attract extremists - but BMA are not an extremist group. And FWIW I wasn't referring to your post about the nestle boycott, but the one above yours which stated that boycotting nestle alienates FF mothers because they need to buy formula.

I'll be interested to see in fact how Mike responds to the more "extreme" views because in all I've seen of him he's always been very neutral in terms of FF vs BF and keen to promote safe, informed FF for those who want or need to use it.

[tiktok]

Feeding, however it's done, is so emotional, and a good thing too! How we feed our babies is part of our relationship with them and part of our 'identity' as mothers.

That does not excuse out-and-out hallucinating about concerns around formula safety and unethical promotion. To be concerned about breastfeeding and the lack of knowledge and support to make it a happy experience is not to 'demonise' formula or to judge formula feeding mothers.

Formula companies make their profits at the expense of breastfeeding - more breastfeeding = less formula feeding. As businesses, their prime duty is to their shareholders. The public health agenda needs to combat this. There will always be a need for a safe, appropriate substitute, and it should be cheap, easily available and of good quality.

I would like to ask Mike how Baby Milk Action can explain that concern about formula is not the same as judging mothers who use it.

[Caz10]

MilaMae have you been on the BMA website?

A couple of quotes:

When babies do not receive breastmilk, for whatever reason, they have a right to nutrition that is as safe as possible and will cause the least possible harm. For this reason, Baby Milk Action campaigns to make formula feeding safer. This is is line with the aim of the International Code of Marketing of Breastmilk Substitutes:...

...We monitor the baby food industry and campaign for them to fulfil their obligations under the International Code, which is set out in Article 11.3:

Independently of any other measures taken for implementation of this Code, manufacturers and distributors of products within the scope of this Code should regard themselves as responsible for monitoring their marketing practices according to the principles and aim of this Code, and for taking steps to ensure that their conduct at every level conforms to them.

We also work with and train health workers so they understand their responsibilities under the Code and Resolutions. Through our partnerships with professional bodies and mother support groups, we campaign for better information and support for parents and other carers.

This work aims to protect breastfeeding and to make formula feeding safer.

Baby Milk Action believes it is a mother's choice how she feeds her child and no-one should attempt to make her feel guilty over the decision she takes.

No "African babies" () anywhere!

[Bubbles1066]

Harktheheraldeverything - And I will never understand why junk food is compared to formula. Junk food contains empty calories and not all the nutrients necessary for human health - eat it all the time and you may well be at risk of malnutrition. This is not true of formula, which is a complete food until 6 months and then necessary nutritionally alongside solids to 1 year. Yes it's not as good as the mighty BM but it's definitely not a junk good in any way either.