Can I have the lowdown on formula please?

[ButterpieBride]

I have a 9.5mo DD who will take a bottle of ebm or ready made formula. We got a pack of the powder today and it took ages to make up- with DD1 I'm sure we just made up six bottles with cold kettle water and used them over the day.

I don't need to sterilise the bloody bottles do I? I'm sure I read some kind of cheaty way of making up the powder that was still safe on here somewhere, but can't find it- any ideas?

Also, would giving her cows milk be really bad? my mum seems to think it would be ok, watered down and with a bit of bovril added but somehow I don't think that is the case.

How do you know when to feed them? The box says she should have three feeds a day by now- it is more than ten usually at the boob, but no idea how much she is taking.

Also...sigh. Didn't think I'd be making this post. I don't know ANY ff babies.

my DS who is 6.5 months and FF has about 5 bottles of 7oz feeds, on top of normal food. Make them up with cooled boiled water and keep them in the fridge. Warm them in microwave for 30 secs when needed.

No doubt that is all wrong, but tis the way I do it

and no need to sterilise at that age. Have not used cows milk or bovril, but see no good reason not to.

At that age if FF, she should be having about a pint a day or 3 feeds of 7 fluid ounces or 210 ml. If BF as well, cut back on formula a bit. Bovril???? That very salty substance?? Absolutely no way.... why Bovril??? Cows milk can be mixed with food ie, weetabix but not given as a drink until a year old. I don't sterilise bottles - just put them through dishwasher and rinse out straight after they have been used so milk can't start to go off.

This is what I did. It may not be the approved way, but I had no problems.

I made up a day's worth of cooled, boiled water in bottles.

I measured out a day's worth of formula powder and had it waiting in one of these powder dispenser.

When I needed to feed DS I shook the powder into the water.

DS was usually happy with cold formula. If I wanted it warm, then I would add some hot kettle water to the cold fridge water, mix it up and empty it our to the right amount before adding the powder.

stopped sterilising and used cows milk from 9 months for my DD, she seems to be fine!! :o (now 4yrs )

You can't give cows milk yet as babies under one need the vitamins and minerals etc in BM or formula. Also think there's something about an enzyme they can't break down yet?

My DS has a bottle at bedtime and we make it according to the new guidelines - boil the kettle, leave it to cool for 30 mins, then add the powder, and cool the bottle to drinking temperature quickly (put bottle in cold water). The guidelines were changed following some baby deaths in europe. This is because milk powder is not sterile, so the water needs to be hot enough to kill bacteria but cool enough not to scald the powder. I knw a lot of FF babies whose parents don't do it this way but there you go. I think if DS started to have more FF I'd use the ready made cartons.

I think you're also supposed to sterilise all milk bottles again because of bacteria.

As for how much, follow the general guidelines? I know my DS "snacks" on the boob which is easy to do as it's freely available!

p.s. HV agreed with me :)

I used cows milk from about ten months. Stopped sterilising waaaay before then.

In terms of making up bottles...we make up 6 in the morning with slightly cooled boiled water, cool them quickly under running water then keep them in the fridge. Warm in a jug of hot water when necessary.

Done this for three healthy babies. Water is hot enough to kill the bacteria, but it's still convenient like the 'old' way.

What lovely74 said

http://www.mumsnet.com/babies/bottlefeeding are the guidelines from the mumsnet useful stuff page. I don't ff myself, but thought you should know the current recommendations.

You have to make them with hot water because the powder isn't sterile.

Ds is 9months and I give him ready made stuff, far easier.

My LO is almost 9 months and has 2 bottles per day (so about 14 oz in total) - one at wake up and one at bedtime then lots of dairy during the day and water.

I don't sterilise anymore.

To make up the bottle I use boiled water cooled for 30 mins then cool down the bottle.

If you are giving 3 bottles I'd do 7am, 3pm aand bedtime

"I did X and my baby is OK" is such a bullshit excuse for lazy parenting. My mum smoked and drank through her pregnancies and I'm OK, but it's hardly a recommended health practice.

www.fao.org/ag/agn/agns/files/PIF_Bottle_en.pdf

watered down cows milk & bovril !! wow, i've heard some pretty outdated advice, but that's pretty much one of the worst.

3 feeds a day is too few for a baby of 9 mths really... feed responsively, same as you would with breastfeeding - ignore what the box says, go by your baby's needs

if she is having the odd bottle, then just use ready made

washing in hot soapy water and air drying or in the dishwasher is ok i believe, i would not be too worried about sterilising as at 9 mths i imagine pretty much evrything is going in hr mouth

no fluids other than breast or formula milk are really needed, you can offer a beaker of water with solid food, but certainly not cows milk as a mian drink, although you can use it in cookin

Lulumaam - do you have a link that 3 formula feeds a day is too few for a 9mo? Just my HV told me 3 feeds were fine, especially if she's having dairy through the day and a varied solid food diet(and that's also what I read in the department of health birth to five book). When I double checked recently (knowing some bf babies that are bf when they like at that age), she told me that she really didn't need any more than 18-21 oz formula per day. And water was fine with her meals and at non-milk feed times.

Am not implying you are wrong, just find it interesting how different people give such vastly different information.

• 3 feeds a day fine for a 9 month old who is -having three meals a day. I cut down to 3 milk feeds a day when introduced three solid meals as advised by HV with both DD and DS1.

My routine at that age was roughly:

7am formula
8am breakfast
10am offered water - maybe offer formula to start with at this time if used to 10 bfs, and cut down later.
11.30am lunch
2pm formula
5pm supper
6pm formula

• a baby who is eating solids and formula should be offered water throughout day esp if hot. A bf baby who has access to the breast does not need water.

• cows milk ok, even on cereal, doesn't have to be "cooked" but not good as a main drink. You probably know this bovril totally unsuitable for babies or toddlers as very high in salt.

• no need to sterlise bottles at that age. Best advice is to make up bottles with water at 70c, at that age fine to make up whole days worth at a time and put in fridge.

the cheaty way to make up bottles is to mix all formula with a small amount of v hot, just boiled water, then top up with cooled boiled water (ie room temperature or below - we used to keep a jug of it in the fridge)

that way, the bacteria are killed, the feed is fresh each time AND it is immediately at the right temperature, so no faffing about while baby cries

Talk to you HV, mine actually agreed that DD was big enough and healthy enough to do without sterilising and give her cows milk.

If baby is happy and healthy, there is more than enough to do in life without making more work for yourself!!!

PS personally I think Comparing not sterilising bottles for a healthy good sized 9 month year old to drinking and smoking in pregnancy is like comparing the dangers of jumping out an airplane without a parachute and jumping of the last step of a staircase. of course better safe than sorry....

Afaik, using just boiled water comprimises some of the nutrients in formula. It's supposed to be no less than 70C but not much more either.

Add message | Report | Contact poster jemjabella Sat 04-Sep-10 12:11:00
"I did X and my baby is OK" is such a bullshit excuse for lazy parenting.

Erm...is that aimed at me?

Agree with lovely74 - water needs to be 70 degrees to kill the bacteria. I don't take the risk, when you compare it with the effort required to prepare the formula according to the guidelines. The WHO guidelines say that you can pre-prepare and then store the feeds in the fridge.

Also agree with Lulumaam - I feed responsively - at 9mos they are still getting most of their nutrients from the formula.

Angelberry - comment prob also aimed at me,
bad mummies for treating our children on a case by case basis as opposed to assuming one rule fits all

Sorry LunarRose but I think your health visitor was mad to suggest that! I don't blame you though - we can only do what we do with the information we have at the time. I'm surprised at the amount of people on here saying they switched to cow's milk totally at 9 or 10 months though!

DS was having marmite sandwiches at that age, but not marmite in his milk! So I'd also say bovril is out. I'd guess it's probably high in iron though which is why it was suggested? Old fashioned advice as others have said, but not totally nuts!

OP the "cheat but still safe" way is to make up with 1/3 almost boiling water to kill the bugs, then top up with 2/3 cool boiled water, shake to mix, feed immediately. Adjust 1/3 & 2/3 to your baby's preferred temperature ratio, which I guess takes practice.

If there is any nasty bacteria in the powder, it's never going to be 100% completely killed by the hot water, just depleted to such a small number that it's not an issue. So if you make it in advance it has the chance to multiply back up to dangerous levels, of course the risk is higher the longer you leave it, and if you leave it out of the fridge.

ButterpieBride - unfortunately there is a severe lack of good information about FFing.

There is a very very good leaflet produced by UNICEF which is about formula, different types, how to feed and how often. See here. (I'd recommend that you look at the one for HCPs which has much more info in it.).

I think it is important to provide evidence based advice.

Sure - anecdotal advice can be interesting - but the fact that people have used methods which are not recommended and their DCs have been fine is neither here nnor there.

There are mum's here on MN whose DC have had serious problems from formula and mum's who know of friends with similar circumstances.

Regarding sterilising bottles: the reason for sterilising bottles is that it should make it more likely that any bacteria on the bottles and in the teats is destroyed.

Properly thorough cleaning with hot soapy water, air-drying in a clean area should also remove bacteria.

I think the guidelines state to continue to sterilise whilst bottles are being used as it is difficult to ensure that teats are completely free of bacteria.

Obviously the risk to a baby of a D&V bug decreases as their own immune system improves.

Making up formula:

Formula powder is not sterile. The manufacturing process cannot guarantee to remove all bacteria. Some of these bacteria can cause fatal and dangerous infections. These are much more common in young babies.

Making up formula with water which is 70 degrees has been shown to decrease the risk massively. The lowest risk is to make each bottle up fresh. However there are guidelines for making bottles in advance, colling rapidly and storing in the fridge.

A kettle of 1 litre of water boiled and left for 30 mins will be 70 degrees. If the water is hotter than this then there is a risk that nutrients and vitamins can be destroyed.

Have a look at the NHS guide for HCPs.

If you want more details into the ins and outs then the Irish Guidance Note 22 is brilliant.

Use of a microwaves is not advised due to hot spots. I found it very easy to heat milk in a jug of hot water.

Lots of people talk about a method of making powder up with a smaller volume of hot water and then adding cold. What I would say about this is that it hasn't been tested (from a bacteria point of view) - it's not clear if the smaller volume of water can kill the bacteria.

Regarding cow's milk - it is not advised I don't think until a baby is 12m old. Having had to give up BFing I wanted my baby to have a BF substitute rather than cow's milk.

angelberry - no, it was actually aimed at BikeRunSki's post but as you said more or less the same thing then yes, I guess that means it's aimed at you too.

If you cannot be arsed to ensure the safety of your baby by boiling a kettle - however uncommon the contamination of enterobacter sakazakii - then what else is that other than lazy?