Hunger Strike: Support thread for those difficult to feed babies

[ClimberChick]

Reflux, distractible baby, nipple confusion, teething pain, growth spurt, slow/fast let down and more......... all welcome. I've noticed that there are few babies not too willing to drink the good stuff atm, so I hope this will be useful. A problem age seems to be the 3/4 month group, but don't let that stop you from posting.

I'm assuming that the babies are BF (which throws in emotional baggage as well), but advice will be on hand to FF babies as well.

Come share your stories, offer/take advice and general hugs and chocolate support. Because we know this stressful, emotionally draining and can make you:

• want to give up BF (if this is your method of choice)
• feel cheated out of that bonding experience that your suppose to have
• resent feeding
• feel like your baby is rejecting you (even though the logical part of your brain tells you otherwise
• feel under pressure, that you or your BM is not good enough
• feel guilty for continuing to BF
• and the general worry out your mind about them not eating enough

Links for identifying the cause here and here

general tips for feeding baby during strike action here

If your worried your LO isn't getting enough to eat, look for these signs of dehydration (which although rare is serious) and see a doctor asap

• dry nappies
• lethargy
• listlessness
• weak cry
• dry mouth or eyes
• the fontanel (soft spot) on the baby's head is sunken in or depressed
• the skin loses its resilience (when you pinch it, it stays pinched looking)
• fever

When I worried about time between feeds, I just remembered the nights when she went longer because she was sleeping.

Hi, Thanks igglybuff i think the time has come to try and get him onto ranitidine but DH is a GP and he thinks they will resist starting it as his weight gain is still okay - or at least was last time he was weighed....haven't been for a while as lots of nappies wet and dirty still. Thats exactly what we tried yesterday with milk in a syringe rather than in the late eve bottle....so that we can give EBM with a slower teat rather than the variflow needed to give the thickened milk. He has actually fed calmly so far today today and slept from 11.30 - 6.30 last night - amazing for him its normally 2-4am. But i won't be holding my breath as the later feeds are always the more problematic! fatseal why don't you try expressing a feed to see whether you have a forceful letdown that might be upsetting LO you can hear mine hissing against the side of the pump! it will also give you an indication of whether your supply is okay - i get about 5-6oz in half an hour with an electric pump from both boobs although most of that is very quick. recommend the medela swing its fab....i have tried allsorts with my three premmies and it comes out tops almost on par with hospital ones. if it is low supply then give yourself a few days concentrating on pumping after each feed and see what happens....my DH exactly the same suggesting bottle for every problem...and as i said he's a GP!!!!...i think they just feel helpless watching us so worried! hang in there you are doing a fab job!

monkey great news on the sleep. The GP who finally prescribed the ranitidine was fab - DS's weight gain was fine but he went on nursing strike. Several GPs wouldn't prescribe the ranitidine despite his refusal to eat when awake so I had to keep going back. Main reason they didn't was because they were a bit apprehensive and and one couldn't do the maths to work out the dose (he was sitting there with a calculator then changed his mind about prescribing when he couldn't do it )

sunangel I just kept on offering boob all the time in the day - usually when DS was playing so was quite relaxed, I'd ask him if he wanted any milk. He'd have a bit then keep playing. Just worked up from there. He also drinks from a bottle now if we're out and doesn't get nipple confusion. He can also drink from a doidy cup too so giving that in the day.

Sorry fatseal didn't read the whole thread....and missed that you'd already had those suggestions! fenugreek and rest has recovered my milk supply before with DD1 along side the pumping and i was reading somewhere that letdown is a pavlovian reflex....remember the dog experiment you probably learnt about at school. Anyway, when establishing supply we often inadvertantly condition ourselves to prepare for letdown by doing a certain thing such as making cup of tea, sitting in a particular chair, using a certain cushion to prop up LO...have you changed how/ where you are feeding at all? also things like relaxing by putting in an ipod with soothing music and drinking a cuppa etc can speed up letdown drammatically especially when pumping or as we have, when you have a screaming thrashing baby at the boob....just turn the music up and deep breathe a bit. the conditioning thing is great if you are pumping to increase supply as you say listen to one song each time you start pumping and then when feeding LO it also brings on a letdown much quicker. i know it sounds crazy but it does work honestly. Think the info on it was on DR sears website. If i have time i will post the link....have to go and collect the older children now and then its chaos here but will do it later if i can find it.

the formula I have for the drugs is

Domperidone 0.3 microgram per kilo four times a day (which is the middle of the range) so when DS was 4 kilo we gave 1.2 mg (which is 1.2 ml) 4 times a day. The range is 0.2 - 0.4

Ranitidine is more complex as its 15 mg per 1 ml and we give 2 mg per kilo ... that's again in the middle of the range but not quite dead central.

I am not however a doctor and this is only what we have for DS. Because there is a range I would strongly push to find out where you child is on the range then adjust once you have that info. We also pushed particualrly with the ranitidine as we were always sure that the silnet reflux was much worse than the projectile vomiting and the ranitidine is the antacid.

We did also discuss omeprazole but because DS has reflux not reflux disease we decided against it as the others treated the symptoms which was always our concern, He still grows even if slowly.

We have also tried gaviscon but that made things much worse (due to constipation) so we stopped that very quickly.

For what its worse when DS gets distractable, difficult to feed, or wont bf I always give him a bottle (but of EBM) and so far at least he's always gone back on track with BF again later. It just gets me through when he's being difficult. I do often put less in the bottles if that's the case though so he doesn't just think oh this is an easy option. And I never give him a bottle in the middle of the night ... I am not goingthere with warming up EBM at 3 in the morning. If he's hungry he can feed, even if he doesn't feed much and will wake again 2 hours later...

Speaking of which why do the gaps in his feeding et smaller as the night wears on. I am fine with him going 11.30 to 3. or 4. or 5 but why is th enext gap only 90 mins or two hours... and when will that also get longer?

Thanks for all the help everyone, I will try a bit more expressing to build up the supply a bit, the amount I got last time I pumped was 2oz less than usual so I think it has dropped a little.

The letdown is fairly fast and furious, as if dd comes off as it's happening, the milk sprays all over her face and the sofa etc. It used to be a bit of a problem for her and she'd choke and gulp, but now that's what she likes best and anything slower seems to pee her off no end.

Anyway, we have had three good feeds today!!! I also made an appointment to see the HVs and get her weighed again, and she has put back on 1.5oz since tuesday, so that's a bit better. The HV was also really helpful(!) and asked lots of questions to try and get to the bottom of the problem, and she thinks that because my periods have come back (had a bit of spotting at the weekend), the hormones have changed the taste of the milk and put her off. This would seem to tally with the fact that it seems a bit better today, although she was fussing again this evening. So I'm fervently hoping that's it, and a bit of perseverance will pay off and she'll start feeding properly again soon. I'll also keep on with some more expressing to boost the supply. Fingers crossed and bed early tonight after last night's 2,4,6 combo.

Thanks Climberchick. Unfortunately I do need the top-ups until I get my supply back up with tea and extra pumping after his boob strike. My supply has already improved once I realised my pump membrane had a hole in it!

I'm bit too woosy to get him back solely bm via cold turkey on the bottles though. However, I'm staying with family for the next fortnight so I hope with my new double pump and a break from cooking/cleaning I can work on supply and feeding. Fingers crosed!

Oh I'm at the beginning of it all and would LOVE advice. Ds is 8 weeks and it's all spiralled downhill in a week. He was a fussy eater but ate/ gained weight well. Last week this progressed to feeding refusual/ screaming feeds. Took him to clinic, then to GP as he'd remained at the same weight for weeks but he suddenly developed an awful diarrhea virus. At A&E (sent by GP) he was dehydrated and they gave him gaviscon for reflux for when bug stopped. Now however he will barely eat. We used to joke about his love of milk, ate too much if anything but now he's still refusing feeds and screaming even more. It seems like learnt behaviour as sometimes he screams before the bottle even touches his lips! He's consistently eating in the 50ml-70ml range, down from 140ml, plus he's completely stopped crying for food. I offer him the bottle after 4 hours if he's shown no inclination for feeding but he's still often not interested. It's a real battle to feed him with red-faced screaming.

I'm at my wits end and quite worried about possible dehydration taking the diarrhea into account. His soft spot has been depressed all week (noted by GP and hospital) and he's sleeping more but he is alert and strong now during wake times. Any tips. I'm quite scared. How little is too little?

ohh strawberry that sounds horrendous. I personally can't offer much advice on bottles, can anyone else?
Do you feed him upright, burp him regularly. I guess you just need to keep offering, but not forcing the issue as this will reinforce negative issues. Does he feed in his sleep, can you have bottle ready as soon as he wakes (when still drowsy, will prob require you being near him so that you pick him up as soon as he stirs). If all else fails, maybe a big syringe? or maybe a non drip cup (ours is really colourful so for her, its different than a bottle), though he's a bit young but worth a shot maybe? I'm really sorry that I can't offer more concrete advice .

There are other posts about reflux medication and those posters should be able to help to identify symptoms to see if sounds like reflux.

Have you tried different flow teats, temperature. Can you keep in regular contact with GP or hospital. If your at all worried, then just get back in touch with them.

As for how little is too little, I don't know, but maybe record how many wet nappies and pass that information along to the HCPs.

Sounds like he's getting stronger, I know illness's can make both FF and BF go off food. Have you been advised about giving him cooled boiled water to help with dehydration?

raen that's great news on the expressing front, at least once your up to a certain amount a day, you can have confidence in your supply.

We seem to be feeding fine in the day (well morning and evenings) but she continues to get more impatience in the night. Suspect teething is starting to bother her again. Ending up feeding her completely upright for night feeds yesterday.

strawberry you could try feeding asleep? No idea if it works with bottles - it does with boob. Rock him to sleep for a nap and slip the bottle in and see what happens? Also ask for another medication for the reflux - gaviscon doesn't do anything for the acid burning the oesophagus, it just coagulates the milk to hold it down. We were given ranitidine. Also reflux can go hand in hand with an intolerance or allergy to cows milk. Therefore the formula you're using could be contributing. I would try comfort milk or ask your GP to prescribe hypoallergenic stuff.

hilda the gaps get smaller as babies move into lighter sleep in the second half of the night so wake for a feed to get back to sleep. If they're uncomfortable or something in the environment wakes them up, they usually want a feed or rocking back to sleep. until they can self settle.

fatseal great news on the feeding.

Thanks for the replies. I tried a sleepy bottle at 3am but it as usual failed after 30ml when he coughed on it and woke properly. He also filled three nappies in a row straight after, each time I changed another filled.

All else has been failing so after a bit of water for hydration I let him sleep 8 hours. He woke up very hungry and ate all of it!!! HE was in his bouncy chair and squirmed but ate without screaming. I really really hope it's not a one off and it's a corner being turned. He was so different after a bellyful, stayed up for an hour playing for first time. He hasn't played for a week. Even more miraculous it's not out the other end yet. I know it's not completely solved but if he can eat any decent amount I'm so pleased, it takes the emergency out of the situation. Hospital were insistent of milk being the best thing for him if he'd take any at all. He's lost all of his beautiful chubbiness he had. He's now at the 98th percentile for length but below the 25th for weight. He started out with a nice weight gain above the 75th. He's 2oz heavier than 3 weeks ago.

It's the weekend so I'm on my own with healthcare but monday I'll turn up and ask for a review now the virus should be pretty much out of his system. One thing that looks positive is at least the diarrhea is a normal colour, not green or dark. YEsterday was the first day I fed the poor thing without having a towel round his bum ready! I'm also less worried as he's now doing a few wees a day.

My husband is away and so are my family and I'm dealing with this alone. I really REALLY respect any single mums out there now, I've never even stayed one night alone in a house before this week in my entire life!

I hope I don't sound awful with the 8+ hours sleep but my last resort was seeing if a proper good sleep and an empty system would help with how stressed he has been. I did check him a lot!

Strawberry

so glad it seems a little better, and no you don't sound awful about the 8+ hours sleep. whatever gets yoy (and more importantly him) through

fingers crossed it continues to improve.

Hello all.
Hi sally - I think we were on the ante-natal thread together? Igglybuff, nice to 'see' you. You have been a help to me on many a reflux thread!
We had paediatrician yesterday and ds has been prescribed domperidone aswell as the gaviscon and ranitadine. The doc was really good actually - went through all possibilities, including intolerances, etc, which was refreshing as they are often poo-poo-ed.
ANyone used DOmperidone? I am a wee bit worried about it as ds is also colicky/windy on top of the reflux (think they feed off each other) and wonder if it will make it worse?

Ds is back to being very wriggly during feeds but not screaming - just crying! ALso upset afterwards. Still managing to stay on 25th percentile though so very, very pleased about that. WIsh MIL would stop going on about how he would be better on formula though... (I ffed ds1 btw, am not anti-ff) FFs, every paed we have seen says keep up the bfing if possible. But of course she knows better...

Anyway, sorry I can't really offer much help to anyone, other than empathy! Hope the weekend isn;t going too badly...

Hi nicky haven't seen you on the thread in a while! How are you?

We tried domperidone and it made DS really really unsettled - his tummy went super gurgly as soon as we gave it. So we left it. He grew out of the vomiting at around 7 months and the silent reflux is getting better since weaning (I've stopped his ranitidine as it intefers with iron absorption but his symptoms are much reduced). Omeprazole is the next option I think?

OMG the pressure of starting a thread, especially by someone who is really bad at keeping track of people, so apologies but my little brain can only remember two things at once.

straw at least it was a weight gain (mine put on 1oz in two weeks once), but no-one was worried. Especially if he's been ill, fingers crossed he'll remember he loves milk. Is he ever asleep sitting up e.g. car seat, could you try feeding him in that?

hilda the law of diminishing sleep return. If she stirs after 5:30, then we've had it really. She lies in bed next to us, not crying, but taking a hour to go back to sleep.

Btw CC thanks for starting this thread!

I really could do with some advice! I have an 8 wk old who is bottle fed. She's on aptamil. She's always been a fidgety feeder, but lately it has worsened. She fidgets on the feed, bucks, wriggles and generally fights the bottle. Usually get 2-3 oz down her then she has a burp, then gets veeeeerrrryyyyy distressed and starts hownling, wriggling kicking for about 5 mins. As soon as she knows I'm not going to feed her aymore she stops and is happy as larry. In between feeds she is fine. I'm pretty sure it's not reflux as she has no other symptoms (she's fine laid down etc etc). She does seem to get painful wind down below and gets consitpated (no poo now for 3 days. She takes water fine and, like I say is a happy baby other than this. I'm worried that she's not getting enough (20 oz all over a 24hr period is an achievement!). She's also still up in the night a lot and feeds exactly like when she was a newborn.

What does this sound like to you? Should I try a comfort milk?? HEEELLLLLPPPP

Nicky We use domperidone, which is an anti emetic so stops reflux making ds sick. It does have wind as a side effect and we do get some explosive poos. We found it was fine and ds isn't worse on it than without it, but gaviscon is a nightmare for us.

With the drugs our paeds basically say try it and see, and if you think the symptoms are controlled don't adjust the doses as ds grows. They also say take him off if they don't seem to work. When we try we decide they do work afterall.

crazy is you ds gaining weight? it may be she's just not hungry anymore?

Not sure, she's getting weighed on friday. Think I'll just go and buy some easy digest stuff, see if that makes a difference. Can't do any harm!

crazy I'd suggest the easy to digest stuff too. Maybe cows milk doesn't quite agree with her (hence the bum wind and constipation)?

She's a little sod!Not sure if she's just going through a 'I'm not hungry, stop trying to feed me mam' phase or if she is genuinely struggling. You know when you just can't see the wood for the trees? I'm too close to the issue to be able to make any sense of it. Does any one know anything about this easy digest stuff? It sounds pretty nasty!

Thanks hilda.
He is very windy as it is, so goodness knows how many sets of clothes we'll get through!

crazy, could it be to do with the teat size? DS 1 was ffed and we chnaged the teat size every so often. if the teat is too small it will make wind worse and she will get frustrated too.

Oh and I found COlief in the bottles helped ds1 with his wind. Not much use with bfed number 2 unfortunately...

Hi Nicky, thanks for that. We've tried changing teat size a few times to no avail - makes it worse - the temper on her is unreal! I'm soooo confused at the moment - just fed her, she took 5 oz no probs, happy as a pig in poop, filled her nappy no probs and is gurgling away quite happily. I'm starting to think she's just not been that hungry over the last few days, and this coupled with the fact she has a bit of discomfort and a temper on her, has made be panic! Guess I'll find out over the next few days... Hope your little one improves Nicky!