AIBU to object to my husband calling our children Black?

[MJJX]

I will start off by saying that I am a mixed-race (black/white) woman. My husband is fully white. We have 2 children (so far). Lately, I've found myself being very bothered that my DH tries to label our children as Black (as in solely Black). It makes me uneasy. He tells them that they're Black and tells other people that he has a Black wife and children when any discussion of race comes up. I want our children to be aware of their Black heritage, but I also recognise the reality. They're 25% Black. They're pale-skinned, straight/wavy hair, no Black features. I have a strong feeling that this is going to cause identity issues for them as they grow older. He's very Americanised (as he lived there for many years), and I feel like he adopted their attitude surrounding race and racial issues (as in their one-drop rule). To me, there is an element of racism to considering a person with any percentage (even 1%!) of Black heritage to simply be a Black person. I really just want him to stop, but other people have told me that it doesn't matter (which I completely disagree with). I think my feelings should matter. AIBU?

(I recognise that it is risky to mention race on MN, so please do not derail this thread with any unrelated arguments about race.)

This would confuse me. As you've said, they're (roughly) 75% white. With his viewpoint, at what point does someone become white? If one of your children has children with a white person in the future, is he also going to consider those grandchildren black?

What would be your preferred term?

ask him to use that.

The 'one drop' rule originated in slavery and white supremacy, and I guess it's kind of flipped and inverted by many modern Black American people but that's not our culture or our history. I admit I'm a white mother of a mixed race young adult child but I'd be confused if anyone described him as Black and so would he. Physically he looks ambiguous and identity wise he'd feel silly saying he was Black. It's just such a different cultural context. I don't blame you for finding it weird and annoying! Does he have a bit of a fetishist 'thing' for Black culture/identity? Does he want to get brownie points from his uber liberal diverse crowd for having Black children??

I agree with you, and am in the same situation - apart from the DH attitude. Two of my children pass as white, one looks mixed ethnicity like me, although all are 75% white.

My DH is also American but thankfully doesn't adhere to the one drop rule, just embraces that the children have mixed ethnicity. It's something that I hated from my time in the US.

What discussion have you had with him around it? Is he really arrogant enough to override you on this?

You need to explain to him that there's a difference between having Black ancestry and being a Black person. I have about 15% Asian ancestry (according to an ancestry test and family history), but I am not an Asian person and would never identify as one. I also hate the term 'white passing' because it suggests that a majority white person is pretending to be white or something. You can't pass as something that you are. They look white because they genetically are majority white.

I hope that I don't offend with this as I am honestly unsure. What would you prefer to call your children?

Why is your husband ignoring that preference?

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all and I find it really shocking that your DH thinks he can overrule you on such a sensitive issue.

I don't think this is an exclusively American belief (at least not anymore). Didn't Harry refer to his children as black? Meghan is also a mixed-race woman.

It’s like Prince Harry calling Lili and Archie Black. Sure they have black heritage, but they won’t go through life the same.

Have you had a conversation with him about this? Do you two discuss race/identity, in general?

This seems so bizarre to me, our dynamics are exactly the same as yours, I’m mixed race - Black/White and my partner is white so our children are 25% black and they’re whiter than my partner with fair straight hair and green eyes! If they were brought up being labelled as black I’d think they’d be extremely confused. We refer to our children as mixed race because that’s what they are and even that feels like it’s being generous sometimes! It was almost the same for me growing up as even though I’m half black, I have straight hair and more olive skin so I used to get asked if I was Spanish or Italian. I’ve never really felt like I belonged to either ethnicity but it bothers me less and less the older I get

When I said some of my children pass as white, it meant that they look white. Not that we or they pretend they are, as they have a black grandparent and a mixed parent. They are registered as mixed ethnicity with school, GP, etc.

It's such a minefield, there are no right answers to suit everyone! I just think it's not up to someone else to decide who/ what we/ they are. Often not black enough for one group, and not white enough for another. Just in no-mans land.

This is really weird, especially as he is the white parent and the children are only 25% black without any associated physical features. Is it virtue signalling?

I think your dh should defer to you on this and I'd put my foot down about that.

Genetically, we are not exactly 25% each grandparent. The way meiosis works if I recall correctly, is that each chromosome is half from your dad and half from your mum, but of each half it's 50-50 chance which grandparent it came from. That's why first-gen mixed race children do look predictably mixed race, but second gen mixed race skin colour can vary so much.

My kids are 3/4 white, 1/4 asian, and my ds looks mixed and my dd looks white.

I posted before on mn in a postpartum rage because I argued with the (white british) physician associate who insisted I should register both my kids as mixed race, and that I shouldn't register them as different ethnicities. I said my dd looks entirely white British, I registered her as that 3y ago, now my ds is clearly mixed. I put him down as "prefer not to say" just to shut up the PA.

I personally am a strong believer that ethnicity is mostly a bullshit concept that I wish we'd all just try not to make a big deal of (in favour of more "real" stuff like background, culture) but if we must, then it's about what you look like.

Some people are so obsessed with being "correct" that they forget they've got a real mixed race human being in front of them, that is getting pissed off.

I’m guessing your husband is woke. Inflicting his obsession with race and identity on to his children is extremely damaging and profoundly misguided. It is not best for your children that they think of themselves as black. I have no idea how old your children are but the chances are that their skin colour, or that of their friends has never even crossed their minds. This is as it should be. It’s ludicrous to raise children to be obsessed with race; their own or anyone else’s.
Maybe buy him Self Portrait in Black and White by Thomas Chatterton Williams and Woke Racism by John McWhorter.

I actually meant the opposite. I meant that using the term ‘white passing’ insinuates that a person is somehow pretending to be white when they actually aren’t (if that makes sense). It doesn’t make sense to me to use the term ‘white passing’ rather than just calling them white once someone is majority white and looks white. To me, I don’t understand why you seemingly have to be 100% white to be seen as simply white when that isn’t the case for any other race.

I agree that it can be tough! I realise that my outlook differs from a lot of people’s.

I would pick your preferred term and clearly state he should call them that .
.if he needs to refer to their ethnic origins at all, as I am struggling with why it comes up so much tbh.

Well his wife is American and they live in America!

What did he say when you told him to stop it? Because he really should stop it.

Definitely. My gf grandad was black but I’m white, and that’s how I describe myself

So I assume you think of your kids as mixed race as you are? And as I would do too.

I would not tolerate that from anyone especially their white father. It doesn’t sound right at all that’s his babies.

I'm white so feel free to ignore. There are people who like to take a lovely warm bath in someone else's oppression. And your children can't be fodder for that. Of course discussion about race, identity and heritage are important but ultimately they will find their own identity. He can't impose one that suits his ego.

You're not being unreasonable. The only way that your husband could have a black child would be through adoption. It's not possible for a fully white person to have a black child biologically. Could they have a mixed-race child that appears more black? Yes. Could they have an actual black biological child? No. With what I know about genetics, my mind cannot be changed.

Even if a mixed-race person appears more black or more white, they still carry alleles (genetic markers) that are both African and European in origin. One example of this is the SLC24A5 gene. It is one of the genes that code for skin pigmentation in humans. It is nearly fixed in Europeans (meaning that 99% of Europeans carry two copies of the derived allele that codes for lighter skin). The majority of Africans carry the ancestral allele that codes for darker skin. One copy of each (derived and ancestral) allele would be passed down to a mixed-race child who has one fully black parent and one fully white parent.

They'll be mixed race regardless. As is Meghan. I don't think OP is alluding to any type of difference in life (unless compared with KCs grandchildren). It's more the term and labels that her husband has given their children of mixed heritage.

I think @MrsTerryPratchett nails it. I read that post and wondered if he announced that he gay friends too, not just a black wife and children (panic as to what one should say).

@MJJX I'd just ask him why and point out how and why you don't agree with his terms.