AIBU to object to my husband calling our children Black?

[MJJX]

I will start off by saying that I am a mixed-race (black/white) woman. My husband is fully white. We have 2 children (so far). Lately, I've found myself being very bothered that my DH tries to label our children as Black (as in solely Black). It makes me uneasy. He tells them that they're Black and tells other people that he has a Black wife and children when any discussion of race comes up. I want our children to be aware of their Black heritage, but I also recognise the reality. They're 25% Black. They're pale-skinned, straight/wavy hair, no Black features. I have a strong feeling that this is going to cause identity issues for them as they grow older. He's very Americanised (as he lived there for many years), and I feel like he adopted their attitude surrounding race and racial issues (as in their one-drop rule). To me, there is an element of racism to considering a person with any percentage (even 1%!) of Black heritage to simply be a Black person. I really just want him to stop, but other people have told me that it doesn't matter (which I completely disagree with). I think my feelings should matter. AIBU?

(I recognise that it is risky to mention race on MN, so please do not derail this thread with any unrelated arguments about race.)

I have twins - one refers to themselves as white british , the other refers to themselves as mixed race. In theory, both children are correct; they are 25% mixed race but the one who thinks of themselves as White British is blonde haired and blue eyed, and the one that thinks of themselves as mixed race has olive skin, dark brown eyes and hair.

I kind of think the most important bit is what your children think - but I suspect they are too young to have an opinion. In the interium I think your hubby should respect your wishes since he is 'labelling' your children your heritage you should be able to tell him how you would like this described.

This is a pit of thorns, isn't it? I'm interested because I lost my best friend, many years ago now, on being surprised she called herself black. She was irretrievably offended that I hadn't thought of her that way. Like OP's children, she had one mixed parent and one white. I'm white..

I also had no idea Markle had any black heritage before the fuss about it. On the other side, a second friend was outraged at being called a racist insult - clearly black or mixed in appearance, he was adopted by a white couple and, it transpired, had never thought of himself as anything but white. (Quote: "I could understand it if I was black ...")

Very few people have skin that is actually black or white, and the other racially-coded features are not restricted to people of darker or lighter colouring. The whole thing's a mess. For what it's worth, OP, I agree your H seems to be trying to do the right thing but should cede to your view, at least until your children are old enough to make their own choices.

"also had no idea Markle had any black heritage before the fuss about it."

🤔🤔

If you consider yourself to be mixed race it’s pretty disrespectful of your husband to describe you as something other than that to other people, especially if he knows you don’t agree with his take on things.

Just ignore the other people who have told you it doesn’t matter - they are your children and this is your/your child’s identity. Sit your husband down and explain to him how you feel and agree what you will tell the children to avoid any confusion.

Well, I didn't! I recognised her from Suits. Stopped watching it before her character's 'race' entered the storyline. Harry turned up with her, she still didn't and doesn't 'look black'.

It's not at all obvious to me. Pics for comparison but I DO NOT WANT TO DERAIL.

I didn’t realise MM was black either - I stopped at standard-issue-Californian-influencer, race doesn’t really come into that.

OP, call your DC exactly what you want. You’re their mother.

@RoseField1
You hit the nail right on the head with your message
I personally would tell him to shut the fork up and get on with not pigeon holeing whilst being so "right-on" it's naffly wrong
The fetish about black I've always found creepy/odd and think it's about how some white people think they know all about us so impose what they think we will be like when they interact with us; whilst not possibly seeing us as human just "other" so that if they get on well with one "black" person they're the exception to what ideas they really have about the others
Your message and the original message posted really made me think
And I'm going to say that the father of those children has no respect for the mother at all because he knows this truly bothers her and is ignoring her concerns
I would say he's what my mother would've called a "benign racist"
And @MJJX and the children are proof of how could he possibly be??

Ultimately, yes, your husband should stop if it makes you uncomfortable, as he doesn't have the same investment in it as either you, or your children do.

Tangentially though, I see it differently, as in my culture any Māori whakapapa (ancestry) means you're Māori, whatever your racial mix might be. There's no such thing as a half-Māori, as people say. So a 'one drop rule' isn't always coming from a negative angle - it can be about belonging, cultural acceptance, and embracing your heritage.

Why are you doubting that?

I didn't have a clue either, didn't have a clue who she was before she turned up in news stories around Harry. I wouldn't have thought she was black either, hell my skin is darker that hers during the summer, and as far as I'm aware I've got absolutely no black heritage at all.

Yeah I didn't know either

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

as far as I'm aware I've got absolutely no black heritage at all

So why are you on here then?

Wtf? Maybe her dh is black? Are you policing race? I think we had enough of that in the past..

@MJJX Tell your dh that your children are mixed if he's their dad. Saying they are Black is like Saying they are White- not true. They are a beautiful mix of the two of you.

It does matter. As a white man, he doesn’t get to decide it matters. It’s inaccurate and can definitely cause them issues in the future. He needs to stop.

Maybe her husband is black. Or maybe she has a black friend...
Let's see😊

I agree. I have no skin in the game and accept whatever label someone chooses. But if asked for an opinion.. I agree it's disrespectful to ignore the rest of the contribution. Why is 'mixed' a problem? Or any other label that recognises more than just one heritage. And I agree it's racist to choose the colour there is the least of, to put it clumsily in order to make the point.

That's a conversation for you and your partner though, to get on the same page. He shouldn't be calling you black if that's not your preferred label.

Same reason men post on MN(!) we're all here to (hopefully) hear each other's issues and learn. We need more integration and awareness. Hiding out and talking alone in corners won't change anything.

Everyone in society needs to be involved in conversations affecting different groups in society.

I'm mixed race and married to a white man and my DD looks white. I don't think my husband has ever referred to either of us as a particular race. I don't think I've ever heard him mention anyone's race when talking about them, tbh. This would annoy me too if DH said it.

The only thing I've said to my daughter about it is that it's worth mentioning in GP records or appointments where appropriate because while the genes that control her appearance make her look white, there are also certain health conditions that are more common for people with our ancestry and those still might be present regardless of her appearance. So just in case, it's worth mentioning. Other than that I think she considers herself white and I am not that fussed either way.

She can make roti and pepperpot, though.

It would annoy me and I would correct him. I find the one drop rule inherently racist and would tell him so. Your children are basically white. He has a mixed wife and white children and it’s weird he wants to pretend otherwise.

It’s also weird to me how you hear:

”white passing”

but never

“black passing”.

People should question why that is.

Are you sure your hubby isn't one of those "I'm not racist my wife is black" types, because it sounds like it from your post?

Because historically (and even up to present day) being "black passing" didnt/doesn't allow someone to access certain privileges, while "white passing" did. You don't hear of anyone "passing as black" to escape hardship.

You don't seem to understand the historical context of what white passing means and how it came about. Black people who could pass as white during slavery and also in South Africa's aparthied meant that they had a chance to escape oppression, for some that meant hiding their real family or totally cutting ties with their real family in fear that their identity might be revealed. Even today if you pass as white it means that you will get treated better and have better opportunities in life. There is no such thing as Black passing, what does anyone gain from passing as Black?

Your dd daughter is not white if she is mixed, she looks white but both of your children have mixed ethnicity, our looks don't always tell the full story of our ethnicity and it's helpful to disclose our ethnicty when dealing with medical issues because certain diseases are more prevalent in specific ethnic groups than others.

Same here, with me mixed race, and my partner white. He laughingly refers to the children as mixed race, because one is pale white and blonde, and the other has curly hair and is olive skinned, but could be any background really from appearance, and her hair is quite light.

But I put them down as mixed race for medical reasons - like a BMI of over 23 is overweight for my ethnicity and we can be prone to different illnesses. I do feel like a fraud putting it down on nursery/school forms however.

But I’m very aware I ‘pass’, curly hair and pale olive skinned. Whereas some of my extended family members might have had a harder time growing up