I'm not black 'enough'

[Isthisexpected]

I am mixed race and skin tone is on the light side. Does anyone else understand this? If I'm in a group of white colleagues the way the riots are discussed is so different to if someone who is darker black is present, so like I'm being treated as one of this group but it doesn't fit with my identity. People talking about how difficult it must be and we must check in with colleagues etc and no recognition they're talking about me too. But then if I'm in a group of black colleagues talking about how scared they are it's almost like I'm not black enough to be seen as one of this group either and that I needed worry as I'm not dark.

I've never really put my finger on it as clearly as this but I think I've fallen between these two racial identity groups my whole life.

My dd is mixed race, and she has had similar experiences. Having done some reading, it seems very common for people with mixed heritage to feel like they do not fully fit in anywhere. I don't have any solutions for you, I'm afraid, but I wanted to acknowledge that it can be complex and confusing. I hope you are OK.

I am not an expert in these issues, but as far as I'm concerned, your feelings about your identity are valid, and it is for you to define that identity in whatever way feels right to you...it shouldn't matter what anyone else's perception is. You are not "half" of anything in my eyes, you are a full member of all of the ethnic groups that you may lay claim to.

Do you have mixed race friends that you can chat to about this? I know that my dd has found this to be very really helpful, even with friends who don't share the same ethnic mix at all - it seems that there is something common to the experience of being mixed that she has found it helpful to talk about.

Apologies - have just realised that you posted this in Black MNers where I wouldn't usually post as I have no wish to intrude. I just saw it in Active threads and didn't notice.

Sorry, and I hope that my comments may be of some use anyway. I'm sure someone with more direct experience will be along soon enough.

The only way I've ever figured out how to fix this is by actively saying "what about me?"and seeing what happens.

You're right, it is isolating.

OP I recommend the book The Mixed Race Experience by Natalie Evans.

As someone black, I don't think I know one black person who has an issue with biracial people, (and viewing them as black.) Not ones born and raised in the UK, perhaps black people who have grown up abroad maybe.

Most white people 'due to one drop rule of the past ' regard mixed people as essentially black.

The colourism I think does complicates things as western tradition is to pale up women, just like darkness in men has always been seen as an attractive quality, 'tall, dark and handsome', so light skinned biracial men aren't seen as a prize in the same way. Biracial.women are caught up in all of that.

A lot of it is cultural too, biracial women who grew up amongst black people don't seem to have any issues with being 'black enough' whereas ones who grew up surrounded by whites do- but that is cultural more than racial.

I think its hard when the biracial person could pass as not having any black parent, I did have a friend at Uni that looked basically like a tanned south European, I thought she was Spanish, but was in fact biracial and considered herself black.

One of my inlaws is in the same boat. We are both now in our 70s, but they have told me that people have said derogatory things about black people in their hearing, which they would never say in front of their siblings, who are much more easily identified as black.

I guess I'm saying to you, it was ever thus. Doesn't mean it was right then, and it isn't right now. But you are not alone.

Also biracial and that's my experience. You never quite fit anywhere because we are our own group. I'm adjusting more as I'm getting older.

Specifically in the context of a right wing rioter type thug abusing a poc on the street - it matters what you look like to the thug, rather than how you identify. Is that the point? That your white colleagues consider you to be safe(r) on the street because of your light skin tone?

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experience as people in the same boat but also as parents of mixed race children. It's actually something I have never discussed with anyone including either of my parents. My siblings have a completely different experience of how they are perceived as one is very dark and doesn't appear as mixed race at all and one is very pale (like the Southern European passing person who considers themselves black a PP referred to). When I once tried to discuss how I am perceived by others (not as clearly as I have articulated it here mind you) they didn't get it.

It is a really odd, sort of disconcerted/detached feeling that I'm left with right now as I reflect back. The riots and how others have spoken about them in front of me have definitely made me realise that my own identity is not how others seem to perceive me. But it's more about how I feel in relation to others (lonely misunderstood), not just what others think. Lots of waffle sorry, as I digest these new insights. I will read the book recommended. I will also see if I can talk about this with anyone else who I can think of who is mixed race and might get it.

Hey I'm mixed race too and very pale and as ive got older have found myself feeling similar tp ypu. What I've realised is no one is coming from a place of malace towards me whether that be black or white.

I don't have a solution but you aren't alone there are lots of us...

Both my husband's parents are "black", but he's a little on the lighter side too and he's always felt by he hasn't fit with any group! You really just can't win with some people, it's best to just do you and ignore. I myself am Moroccan/English so I'm mixed race in the unconventional sense and have always had the same issue. Not English enough for some. People are so ignorant!

I'm sorry you have been made to feel like this op. It's thoughtless colourism.

I’ve found my thread! I’ve actually started to see a therapist about my identity issues because it really does feed into every aspect of my life. I appear “ambiguous” and could probably pass as any ethnicity to be honest, but socially I’m surrounded by blackness and “feel” black, so it knocks me for six every time I don’t feel accepted as such (which is very often), then having to deal with the usual stuff in white spaces also knocks me!

I’ve also found the riots and the general rise in right wing politics difficult to manage, particularly with the white side of my family and with colleagues. All of the “oh it’s ridiculous, isn’t it,” is well meaning but doesn’t acknowledge the actual threat it poses to people who don’t appear white, never mind any understanding of how scared some of us are feeling living here right now.

My identity issues are also causing issues within my own family (hence me seeing a therapist). My children are technically “75% black” if we want to chop them into pieces, and they both identify as black but see me as white. They don’t call me ‘white’, but treat me as if I’m the white mum of mixed kids who doesn’t understand certain things. I can accept that there are things that I will never understand because my ambiguity protects me from a lot, but please respect me enough to know that I understand how to do your hair (who do they think did it throughout primary school?!) and that I know the difference between carnival and “carni”!

As someone black, I don't think I know one black person who has an issue with biracial people, (and viewing them as black.) Not ones born and raised in the UK

biracial women who grew up amongst black people don't seem to have any issues with being 'black enough' whereas ones who grew up surrounded by whites do

This is an interesting perspective. As someone mixed-race who has grown up around mostly black people in a mostly black neighbourhood where a lot of us were born and raised in the in the UK, my experience has been the total opposite to yours. Not the say that no black person perceives me as black, but certainly enough to make me need to explain myself or my identity more times than I could even begin to count.

Such interesting and varied responses thank you.

Thank you to those posting in support as well.

The riots have tapped into something deeper for me than I ever realised has been there for the whole of my conscious life. It can almost be as black and white (no pun intended) as which race am I being seen as in this moment, with this group of people and do I need to explain how I see myself or is it best to say nothing?

My siblings with totally different names that massively identify them as with one cultural and racial identity have had completely different experiences to me growing up. So it's literally just the posters on this thread that have ever "got it". So validating.

I knew it would be a mixed race post.

What about any other time around White people - assuming you're mixed with White, are you treated as White enough? Does it bother you if you're not seen as White around other White people or if Black people treat you as too White or White people see you as not White enough?

The whole point of being mixed race is that you're neither fully this race or that race, and you're both races at the same time. Not one or the other. So I've never felt the 'not Black enough complaint'. Of course we're not. Also not Asian enough nor White enough.

We're mixed enough though. No monoracial can claim that either. See, we all have our lanes and it's odd when we keep trying to force ourselves into other people's.

I can’t speak for the OP, but for me, yes. It works both ways.

Hi @Isthisexpected,

I think I maybe understand a bit. I'm white but I was at a conference once where I met a really nice interesting mixed race person. I wndered if I could tell you as it seems similar to what you are saying.

The lady was, by some distance, the smartest and most organised person in the room and I really wanted to join her group.

I put my foot in it though and then she didn't want me in her group. What happened was that I went and sat next to her and introduced myself. Then I realised that her features were a bit different and I cheerfully asked what he nationality back ground was, as I'm mixed nationality myself and always find it interesting to ask other people.

Anyway it turned out that she had the facial feature shape of a black person, but completely white skin. Once she explained, it was completely clear. I was really really happy to meet someone that was mixed in that way as I'm also mixed western european, so a bit of a mixed appearance myself.

After I asked though, she was embarassed and didnt' want to be in the same group as me any more. I was kicking myself because she seemed a lovely and interesting and intelligent person and I really wanted to hear her thoughts on the project we were working on.

So I kind of get what you mean.

I'm mixed Norwegian, German and Scottish and constantly found myself not quite fitting in as a student because I was very very tall and all my friends were quite small. It was literally hard to be included in a group because their eye level was at my chest height.

I hope this is okay what I've said.

Listen to the podcast Mixed Up

I think it is so important that there is a greater awareness of what it means to e mixed race - in the same way that there is an awareness of the difference you may face for being black. I say this as a black women with mixed race family members and friends who have a very very different experience to me because of the way they are perceived in certain spaces (in comparison to the “collective black experience” that you can rant about with people like you). Whether that is being embraced more than myself or someone darker (from both sides) or actually not being heard at all for not quite fitting in.

It’s a common problem and I have witnessed both sides - and have had in-depth conversations with those that have experienced it.

I did have a friend at Uni that looked basically like a tanned south European, I thought she was Spanish, but was in fact biracial and considered herself black.

This is such an interesting discussion and will come back to it.

The Moors were in Spain for about 700 years. Andalucia, see Seville, Cordoba, Alhambra, They brought irrigation, architecture, agriculture, etc.

Mali - where my son's dad is from - had a university in Timbuctu where they were far advanced while Europe was in the middle ages.

The Dogon tribe knew about the star Sirius before the astronomers caught sight of it.

Wikipedia has all these facts. It's at the click of a mouse.

Knowledge is power.

Yes it's common with so many people. Another example is when you are ethnically something (ie Chinese), but if you've never been there or can't speak the language it doesn't count. Basically don't belong in any group. It's horrible that other people think they can tell you what you are

It's horrible that other people think they can tell you what you are

Ain't that the truth.

Awful reality and sorry you are going through that.

Oh sounds interesting thank you I will