I'm not black 'enough'

[Isthisexpected]

I am mixed race and skin tone is on the light side. Does anyone else understand this? If I'm in a group of white colleagues the way the riots are discussed is so different to if someone who is darker black is present, so like I'm being treated as one of this group but it doesn't fit with my identity. People talking about how difficult it must be and we must check in with colleagues etc and no recognition they're talking about me too. But then if I'm in a group of black colleagues talking about how scared they are it's almost like I'm not black enough to be seen as one of this group either and that I needed worry as I'm not dark.

I've never really put my finger on it as clearly as this but I think I've fallen between these two racial identity groups my whole life.

Did anyone watch BBC's Celebrity Race Across the World this week? One of the contestants - Kola Bokinni - spoke of this. His mum is Irish and his dad is Nigerian.

I'm mixed (S Asian/Eur) but like the woman mentioned previously pass as southern European. My family background is complicated - my 2 siblings have very different experiences. One is hardly darker than me but never passes - the other does but has major cues (name, speech - which I don't have). Half my family are Muslim - really amazing what people say in front of me.

I have a few mixed friends and that really helps a lot. People do talk differently around me depending what they know. Mixed really is it's own lane and I have been most at home there when possible and have found mixed people very welcoming no matter if they are lighter or darker. Can't say the same for full blood S Asian - I've become very wary of their reactions. Often wished I were darker.

Mixed is its own lane is such a great way of putting it.

Hi OP - saw you mention this thread in the Kamala Harris one and thought I'd come join. I really do get what you mean here. I honestly feel like I don't fit in anywhere and it's completely shit.
I had 1 black grandparent and 3 white. I was raised from the age of 8 by my white family only.
I look ambiguous. White people tend to think I'm Greek or Egyptian although I've noticed that black people do often seem to realise that I'm mixed (it was more obvious when I was younger, as my hair texture has changed as I got older)
I literally feel like a fraud the whole time. I'm not white, but neither am I black and I don't even know whether I could legitimately be considered bi-racial when I'm (I guess) a quarter black.
I really do feel like a PP that it seems to sort of invade every part of my life. Therapy is a good idea, and one I might consider. I have had therapy before but for different reasons mainly family issues so sort of related but more from the abandonment side. But I think even THAT is tied up with me not belonging anywhere.
Anyway sorry for the essay, but it's nice to hear from someone who feels similar.

Welcome to the discussion/reflections.

I've been wondering about the idea of how other people identify me. This week a train operator and I were chatting and I said I was mixed race he said "ah yes I thought so". It got me thinking...most of the time when I say I'm mixed race people who are white say "oh really, how long have you lived here?" Or "wow your English is vey good" etc as though they are surprised and so forget themselves a bit assuming that means I'm not born here. In contrast people of colour tend to see something in me maybe as I don't get the same reaction.

This only applies to strangers. Once people know me I very much feel like neither group see me for who I actually am.

The idea of passing is an interesting one. Had a conversation with a much lighter sibling about this last weekend. Almost none of this is on their radar at all because they look white AND identify more with the white side of our heritage. Whereas my darker skinned siblings never get mistaken for white so don't feel othered by the mixed or black community. I'm very much the outlier because of the cues, my name, my skin, my hair and how I feel about my heritage, how I have been raised due to birth order etc.

Mother to mixed race teens here.

This is an utter heartbreak for my teens - they want to belong but don't feel that sense of belonging from either racial heritage, because they don't look enough one race or the other. The feel judged and are lacking.

I often feel as though I've done my children a disservice, to have given them a father of a different race (from me) and made them into people who belong neither here nor there.

I've felt that not-belonging myself, as an immigrant in the UK, but it's magnified for my children who were born here but are not white-looking. And yet they are too white-looking in my motherland to blend in and "belong" there.

We talk about it often, only occasionally with their father because he doesn't experience any race issues as a white man in the UK. For my teens, it's not enough to be mixed, maybe because the mixed "lane" is so small and unrepresented so far.

@HKBBC I agree about the mixed “lane” not being enough. I don’t feel I would fit in with a mixed “community” any more than I would a black or white one as being mixed is just so broad. Like @Isthisexpected described with her siblings, the mixed experience varies so much from person to person that shared experiences are hard to come by.

Even though I feel I’m more closely connected to the black community than white (despite my ambiguous appearance), sometimes when the conversation around mixed people has come up there are people from the black community who are outraged at the idea of mixed people being included. From childhood through to adulthood, I have had comments like “stay in your own community”. What does that even mean? Does someone who is mixed Pakistani and Korean have the same experience as someone who is Nigerian and Scottish? While these comments are from a minority of black people, they’ve stayed with me throughout my life and as a result I always place myself at the peripheral in any cultural or community events for the fear of being told I “don’t belong”.

Likewise, when white people find out my heritage they often try to make me their token, most noticeably at work. It makes no sense as I’m only black to them until a “more black” person comes along. This is the main reason I avoid white spaces socially. At least in black spaces I’m not treated like a fountain of cultural knowledge. I’m just me.

"IWhile these comments are from a minority of black people, they’ve stayed with me throughout my life and as a result I always place myself at the peripheral in any cultural or community events for the fear of being told I “don’t belong”.

God this resonates so much with me.

I actually feel like I'd be judged more for trying to make myself part of the black community because my experience is so different to someone who is obviously black.

When I was a kid we lived for a while in Jamaica with my aunt and she had so much abuse from neighbours for having the "white" girl staying.

But then yeah white people sort of think I'm "exotic" sometimes. Or even worse they forget and then every now and then will make a racist comment and then be like "oh I didn't mean YOU"

I am white (well, 95%, as I discovered on my Ancestry DNA test), but can I comment? I grew up partly in South Africa where the mixed race community (known as Coloured, which is not a slur there, as highlighted by the musician Tyla) has a distinct culture and identity, including music, language, cuisine etc. (It's not simply a black African/ white European thing, the Malay element is very significant). I remember being surprised when moving to London in my 20s and finding that there was no real specific identity for mixed race people. Now, South Africa overall is of course hardly a model society, past or present, but it's an interesting idea. (Some may vehemently disagree that there should be a separate identity, but I thought I would just mention it).

@HKBBC what area of the country do you live in?

I'm in London and depending exactly where you are there are more mixed young children then black and/or Asian ones. Though the ethnicities are very varied. Even among them adults make stereotypical mistakes where they think a child is from and who is their parent.

It’s this forum as well I commented on this group when they first made it and was told I wasn’t welcome as I am “only” half black 🤷‍♀️.

I'm not mixed but I am lighter skinned Black and I actually think these conversations come back to colourism, texturism and featurism.

Very much how white people have to learn when to and when not to take up space likewise those of us who are lighter skinned need to learn when to listen to the experiences of darker skinned Black people and not to centre ourselves. A lot of the anger from Black folk comes from that if you are lighter skinned you're seen as more palatable look at actresses, lighter skinned women are often favoured for lead roles over darker skinned women, and when they are lighter and darker skin women in a cast together typically the darker skinned woman is always the mean one the nasty one the bully and the light skin is always the kind one all these playing to stereotypes and colourism.

Its a nuanced conversation but too often it's led from the wrong angle.

@MotherOfRatios I totally get that and make a conscious effort to be aware of the privileges that come with being mixed, and have raised my (light skinned, “75% black”) DD to spot colourism so she can avoid perpetuating it, however that doesn’t change the fact that we are left floating around like nomads with no community to feel a part of. A PP has said that someone told them they shouldn’t be on this forum because they are “only half black”? That’s bullshit to me.

@MotherOfRatios I actually think in some ways what you're saying there is just demonstrating what people are saying. What you're saying is that it's true, we're not "black enough" to get it -.now I'm not arguing that point. I'm sure I have a lot of privilege compared to someone darker skinned. But at least they have a group or a COMMUNITY where they're accepted. Ie the black community. Where do all us misfits go? Who are our people? They're not white, and like you sort of just said, they're not black either. I've personally experienced racism from BOTH black and white people.

Trying to be vague but I belong to a professional network of minority ethnic people. I didn't realise until a particular comment that darker skinned members were questioning how much I contributed and I'm understanding this more now thanks to some of the posts here.

It certainly is nuanced.

How are you talk about yourself is telling, you are not a misfit at all, have you ever spoken to a therapist about how you feel?

whatever you've experienced hasn't been nice, but embrace the fact that are you a mixed race you are not black and you are not white you are mixed race and that's perfectly okay.

Yeah, sometimes it's about just checking how much space you're taking up because as a lighter skin person, although I'm black, I can't speak to the experiences of my darker skin colleagues because I haven't experienced what they have because I'm not dark skin and our experiences will be different navigating this world. We have very similar experiences but also very different ones and that's okay it's about giving darker skinned people the room to talk. Sometimes I feel like I'd like to lighter skinned people are at the forefront of conversations because we are more possible and we have to challenge that notion.

there will be times by mixed race people deserve to have their own spaces to discuss specific issues like having a racist grandparent, but often a lot of the struggles are the same it's just that mixed race or lighterskinned mono-racial black people are the forefront of conversations and it shouldn't be that way. When organisations and media want a black person, they will always pick the mono racial light skin to black person or the mixed race Black person. It's a problem and it's often why black men date interracially because of deep wounds of colourism they don't want a darker skinned child even though it can happen with a white person they will chance it and dare a white person typically to have a 'lighter child'. Black men are part of the issue, and I also think lighter skinned racial black people and mixed way people have to call out black men men's colourism towards darker skinned black women.

Colourism can be a hard pill to swallow especially when white people can be so racist, that it's hard to even think but I'm not flavoured or preferred except lighter skin people are preferred. An example of colourism is we all know Rosa Parks but she was not the first person to refuse to give up her seat , but colourism means that she became the face of that movement
when actually it was Claudette Colvin a darker skinned, black woman and often darker skinned black womens experiences are erased. Even within slavery lighter skin people were put in the house and not subjected often to the same brutal slavery as darker skinned people were in the fields. Colourism has a long deep history just like racism it all comes from white supremacy.

Yes. I'm mixed race and used to have real issues with my identity. I always think it's interesting that I could tick black on a form and nobody would bat an eyelid, but if I ticked white it'd be another story. Yet when white people would talk about things regarding black people specifically around me, it would be like I'm not included in that group. It's frustrating.

But she IS both black and white. 'Mixed race' on its own isn't an ethnicity.

Being Black isn't an ethnicity, ethnicity is like being Italian Spanish etc
I don't know if she's half Ghanaian or Nigerian (examples) and half English or something else so I can't comment on her ethnicity.

In terms of her race, she is mixed race I.E a mix of two different races presumably Caucasian and Black although it could be different she can correct to me if I wrong.

To clarify when I said she isn't black or white, I meant her race is not fully black nor white? She is a mixture of two races. That's perfectly acceptable to be a mixture of two different races there's nothing wrong with being mixed race.

@Somanypiessolittletime not all those who are mixed with one black parent are light skinned, and not all those who look part black are actually part black. While I knew this quite young it was only really empathised when I had my DD due to some of the kids she went to childcare with, is in school with and how some strangers perceive myself and her father.

So when you are saying people have a community they belong to based on being black they actually don't. They are just accepted by some people who know them, while others who have their own issues say they are not welcome when they realise they have one non-black parent or no black parents.

Oh and you are not a bloody misfit. Unfortunately you haven't found enough people who get you so you can confidently ignore everyone else or tell them where to go as necessary.

I agree. There is an assumption that, as mixed race people, we don’t understand or aren’t aware of colourism or our privileges. Colourism is a serious issue and as mixed race or lighter skinned black people it is so important that we understand this and reflect on times we may have perpetuated it ourselves so we can begin to break it down piece by piece. However, that’s not what this conversation is about. I have noticed that when mixed people talk about our experiences of being mixed, the conversation of colourism is brought up as a rebuttal. The two conversations should be awarded their space separately. They are linked but not intertwined.

You can't separate the issues tbh there's some issues that aren't to do with colourism but most things come back to it.

Especially when mixed race Black people say but white people say racist things in front of me because they don't see me as Black that is an issue of colourism and the proximity to whiteness playing out

@MotherOfRatios I thought this thread was about mixed race people who feel as though they belong neither here nor there, as though they are not accepted by either racial group? I see how you think colourism might be a factor in this, but you're missing the point when telling people that being mixed race is "perfectly okay".

I know my children are "perfectly okay", in fact I think they're perfect. The problem is that they do not feel perfectly okay because they are perceived to not be enough, from either side of their racial heritage. It's not enough to have a self-belief that everything is perfectly okay, when much of society is telling you you don't belong.

@Reugny we're in the SE, but overall, I'm from a small minority group and my mixed race children are therfore in an even smaller group. They find it tricky to talk with people about this (obvious caveat that every person's experience is unique to them) because being mixed race isn't often raised, it's it? You're either in. Or out. Mixed gets neglected.

My children are supposed to have/ be "the best of both worlds" but what happens when neither world wants you?

Exactly @HKBBC Seems our experiences are being dismissed.