“I love your skin colour, I hope I can have children with this colour”

[Supamum3]

The ultimate microaggression for me. I detest these comments. It happened in the nail shop as I was having a pedicure and I was stunned, I kind of just gave the lady puzzled look to show that was a weird thing to say. But equally I didn’t know how to respond to it so said nothing. I’ve had this in the past before when a white woman has said my kids have a lovely skin colour, I don’t like it, it made me feel SO uncomfortable but I was flummoxed in how to respond. Can anyone share a similar experience and how they responded?

If I told someone I loved their hair and they came back with 'you probably wouldn't love the racism that comes with it' or similar. I would be quite hurt. If the intention is to stop people giving compliments to you, I think it will work but imo its targeting the wrong type of person as the vast majority will be giving a compliment from a good place. Such a shame its gotten to this stage for all it seems.

@rattlemehearties

Have I missed something, why are so many self described paler than pale white people replying with their own anecdotes on this thread? Check the board you're on FFS!

Fwiw OP the reply suggested above seems good in the moment to help the person see sense - "that's nice, dear, but they wouldn't like the racism that goes with it"

This just came up in a general thread of trending posts so I didn’t realise the original board it came from. Apologies for that as it wasn’t clear.

Need to address a couple of posts on here. I say this as a white person because some of y'all won't listen if it comes from a Black person:

1) This board is for Black Mumsnetters. If you aren't one, either come here to learn something or stick to the rest of Mumsnet.

2) Having red hair is not the same as being Black. Full stop. Yes, you may have experienced discrimination based on having red hair. No one is discounting your unfair experiences. But it's not the same.

3) Lots of the white posts on here come across as very defensive. If the idea of people getting offended at being complimented on their skin colour makes you feel uncomfortable, sit with that feeling a while. Make the effort to understand why you feel uncomfortable, and actually listen to Black experiences. Do the hard work to understand some else's point of view.

4) Understand the significant disadvantages these women's children have by simply being born Black. These women have often faced a lifetime of subtle and overt racism, and they are preparing to raise productive, successful, contributing humans in a society that discriminates against them for their skin colour.

5) Don't gaslight people because their experiences make you uncomfortable. It's ok to learn something new.

6) Educate yourself before you speak. Racism is still alive and well.

For example:

53% of people from a minority background believed they had been treated differently because of their hair, clothes or appearance, compared with 29% of white people. (source: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/02/revealed-the-stark-evidence-of-everyday-racial-bias-in-britain)

Black women in the UK are four times more likely to die in pregnancy or childbirth (source: www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jan/15/black-women-in-the-uk-four-times-more-likely-to-die-in-pregnancy-or-childbirth)

95% of Black students in the UK have experienced racism (source: www.ymca.org.uk/press-statements/young-discriminated-and-black)

So please don't discount Black experiences shared in this thread. Use the discomfort you feel to educate yourself. It's a wonderful chance to examine your own biases, learn something new, and change your thoughts and behaviour going forward to support these Black mums who are fighting to protect their children in a society that actively makes it hard.

TL;DR If this board makes you uncomfortable, stick around and learn something, or use a different one.

1) This board is for Black Mumsnetters. If you aren't one, either come here to learn something or stick to the rest of Mumsnet.

By that logic, mumsnet is only for parents

*LimeWire" the tone of your post was absolutely unnecessary. People have been nothing but respectful on this thread.

@VitaminA

I don't call this type of comment microaggression because I refuse to accept that the mere act of ^noticing and complimenting^ my skin colour is an aggression. Of course it might be a case of fetishisation - but the chances are low. Over the years, I've come to realise that most people don't think much about what they say and therefore I don't need to waste time reading stuff into their comments.

I agree with this. I'm quite taken aback at some of the things people consider to be more than it is and make such a big deal of, but we all have different perceptions. I know I have mine, so who am I to judge?

Like always white women over here trying to minimize a black experience by saying it’s the same for them or saying it’s just a compliment. 🙄

Many white people love a tan. They risk getting skin cancer to look brown. I'd take it as a compliment. My mixed race GD hasn't got brown skin as she has albinism. She gets so much abuse.

@dasher789 you are being so disingenuous! The example was not of a general compliment, it was of someone saying she wanted pretty brown babies. It's a different statement and not at all okay.

@rattlemehearties no I am absolutely not being disingenuous.

There is much discussion on this thread about hair texture and whether its okay to comment on it.

As far as I am aware, all threads start of with an op and then develop. I was responding to part of that development. This is a trending thread.

@rattlemehearties commenting specifically on someone saying they want pretty brown babies - it obviously is a stupid statement but I would highly doubt offense was meant. Its like when people say they are starving yet they don't no the meaning of the word. We all say stupid and flippant things from time to time. In my experience, you can tell whether someone is being sincere albeit thoughtless or whether they are simply a complete arse. Should the nice but thoughtless person be brought crashing down with a harsh but perfectly real description of the reality they suggest? Perhaps they should but its definitely a matter of opinion.

@Lndnmummy they are great responses thank you. I can’t wait to use the cringing one

Had to smile at this. When my mixed race daughter was about two years old, an old lady in a supermarket said to me 'she's got a lovely tan'

The trouble is it’s hard to be neutral about skin colour because so much is attached to it. So much hated, violence and violation has been attached to skin colour that it’s got it’s own massive backlog of history clanging along with it.
The subtext, even it’d it’s totally unwitting and meant as a compliment , can be heard as “ you know that stuff all over your body that my ancestors murdered and violated and dehumanised your ancestors for? Well I really like it “.

Of course this is massively over stated , I’m not subtle enough to capture it as it is.

@Dasher789 if a comment as such would make you feel hurt then it’s a wake up call for you to understand how this type of comment is taken by the receiver.

As you mention some people are genuine and others not and it’s that person to think twice about making the comment instead of the receiver left wondering if the comment was flippant, genuine or pure stupidity.

Need to address a couple of posts on here. I say this as a white person because some of y'all won't listen if it comes from a Black person

Yet you feel you can speak “as a white person” on behalf of Black MN? I am sure they can speak for themselves, it being black mn and all.

As for the skin colour thing- i always think it’s the tan obsession. They don’t want black skin or hair, they’d like their white privilege, just with a nice tan. Save them having to bother with tanning salons. As a kid I never understood why people were obsessed with abroad, the sun, and getting their skin as dark as possible, yet somehow black skin was inferior.

It’s back to western beauty ideals. Very pale skin- bad. Naturally dark skin -bad. Tanned- whether natural colour or sun/fake tan- beautiful.

I do wonder if we’re seeing the same with lip fillers etc. white western features have a naturally thinner top lip, but currently the “ideal” is for matching full lips. Yet for years black people have had racist comments directed at the very feature white women are now queuing up for. I realise some part of it is sexual and for the male gaze, but again, what does that say about white men and black women.

It’s a very thought provoking topic for me. I do wonder if people see “beauty” more easily in their own race- while for others the differences are the appeal. With so many varied “looks” and changes in fashion I think it’s impossible to say what is beautiful- and again I think this is where mixed race kids comes in- both black and white people can see their own markers…

@Dasher789 I understand that, I do. But as a parent of black children its not about you (as in you who said the potentially wellmeaning comment). Its not about YOU. Its about my children, their development of their sense of self, their feelings, their understanding of how others see them. That is the only thing I care about. The only thing. My job is to nurture, protect, build, and shape them in a world where most of the time they will be torn down. Its not your fault that you don't understand this, it is part of the systemic issue which is white privilige. But I am hoping people reading this will think twice. It is not about YOUR feelings, its about my children.

[quote Dasher789]@rattlemehearties commenting specifically on someone saying they want pretty brown babies - it obviously is a stupid statement but I would highly doubt offense was meant. Its like when people say they are starving yet they don't no the meaning of the word. We all say stupid and flippant things from time to time. In my experience, you can tell whether someone is being sincere albeit thoughtless or whether they are simply a complete arse. Should the nice but thoughtless person be brought crashing down with a harsh but perfectly real description of the reality they suggest? Perhaps they should but its definitely a matter of opinion.[/quote]
But in your example

Would you say “I’m starving” to a famine victim in Rwanda?

@Nomoreusernames1244

Need to address a couple of posts on here. I say this as a white person because some of y'all won't listen if it comes from a Black person

Yet you feel you can speak “as a white person” on behalf of Black MN? I am sure they can speak for themselves, it being black mn and all.

As for the skin colour thing- i always think it’s the tan obsession. They don’t want black skin or hair, they’d like their white privilege, just with a nice tan. Save them having to bother with tanning salons. As a kid I never understood why people were obsessed with abroad, the sun, and getting their skin as dark as possible, yet somehow black skin was inferior.

It’s back to western beauty ideals. Very pale skin- bad. Naturally dark skin -bad. Tanned- whether natural colour or sun/fake tan- beautiful.

I do wonder if we’re seeing the same with lip fillers etc. white western features have a naturally thinner top lip, but currently the “ideal” is for matching full lips. Yet for years black people have had racist comments directed at the very feature white women are now queuing up for. I realise some part of it is sexual and for the male gaze, but again, what does that say about white men and black women.

It’s a very thought provoking topic for me. I do wonder if people see “beauty” more easily in their own race- while for others the differences are the appeal. With so many varied “looks” and changes in fashion I think it’s impossible to say what is beautiful- and again I think this is where mixed race kids comes in- both black and white people can see their own markers…

On the contrary. I was never implying that I speak on behalf of Black MNers. Or even that all Black MNers share the same opinions on things.

It was simply commentary on how many posters were dismissing the OP's comments. Or gaslighting them by trying to downplay how serious these issues are. I would be furious if people were always commenting on my child's skin or wanting to touch their hair. No matter how well intentioned.

For too long, Black people have been told how they should look, act, dress, live. This space is supposed to be a safe place for Black MNers to discuss the issues they want with others who will identify with them - not to be refuted or dismissed.

I don't pretend to understand what Black people go through. I do not speak for them. But I would be absolutely livid if I was a member of a specific group for a subsection of the population, and it was flooded with people who don't belong to that population telling me I was wrong.

@Avaynia

Like always white women over here trying to minimize a black experience by saying it’s the same for them or saying it’s just a compliment. 🙄

But what if it reallyis a compliment? Should white women never compliment black women?

Can you really not see the difference between 'that colour looks amazing with your skin tone' and 'i want my babies to havd the same colour skin as you' as if the OP was a walking talking swatch card @bitofachinwag?

It's meant as a compliment but to me has an undertone (if said to a mixed ethnicity person such as myself) that you're a nice shade of brown, aka not too dark because God forbid.

I've also had, your hair is lovely, I bet you're glad it's not full Afro and it's just nice long curls. And my daughter who is paler than me has had - wow she's such a lovely tan colour not too dark at all.

It's hard, I often respond something along the lines of 'wow, I love Afro hair and all textures so it wouldn't have mattered to me' and 'yes, well she may or may not be darker or paler as she gets older and it'll all be good to me'

I get that it's a compliment but it still stings and makes me think what they'd really think of my cousins who are much darker.

@Toomanyradishes

Can you really not see the difference between 'that colour looks amazing with your skin tone' and 'i want my babies to havd the same colour skin as you' as if the OP was a walking talking swatch card *@bitofachinwag*?

I probably shouldn't have included that quote. I meant generally,bwould it always be seen as a microaggression for me as a white woman to compliment a black woman on her hair or skin?

@GalacticGoddess exactly. My son gets so upset over comments on his and his brothers complexion because he feels they are derogotary towards his culture, his family and his identity. It is hurtful. So again its not about how it is MEANT. It is about how it is perceived. And hopefully, if you are wellmeaning, truely wellmeaning, you would not want to inflict those feelings on another human being?
My dh reminded me of how he recently took one of the boys shopping and a young adult did the whole "oh he is so cute, i hope I get a baby like that colour". My dh said to her "I really really really think that would be a terrible idea".

@Bitofachinwag You sound like one of those men claiming they're not allowed to talk to women anymore. No, it's not always a microaggression, but it commonly is. We all know the difference between a man's genuine compliment and a demeaning, dehumanizing one, don't we?

I'm dark skinned so considered far from the ideal but I've still had people genuinely compliment my skin and hair before. They tell me a color looks nice on me or the curls/braids are pretty. It doesn't offend me in the slightest.

The ones who aren't genuine act like certain features are cute accessories they can stick onto their children. But only to a point, of course. They want their mixed babies but we all know what kind of mixed babies they want. The "caramel" look. Especially with an "exotic" eye color. If said child came out darker than a paper bag those same people wanting mixed babies would see that child as "just" black and not what they wanted. It's gross.

And yes I can speak for myself and voice my personal experiences as a black woman, but I do agree with LimeWire. It's annoying, at best, when white women show up here all defensive and try to downplay the things we go through. Especially considering how conversations about sexism go on this website.