Space Invaders

[EchoNan]

Not a TAAT. The issues are wider than that.

Yet again on here, I've seen the attempted derailing of a mother's thread about her child.

When we talk about challenges we have, ploppers turn up trying to close debates down.

This small part of MN came into being against much opposition. Huff and puff all they like, these eeijts are not going to blow our BMN house down.

I thought I'd post here for BMN to share views. Even when it's pointed out that here is a safe space, that it is Black Mumsnet, still we have deliberate attempts to undermine.

I haven't posted this in Site Stuff, for it to be swamped by other voices, I'm thinking. perhaps, have a discussion here first.

Should BMN not show up in "Active " for example? Or is that counter productive? Any other suggestions?

Thoughts welcome.

Yuck. That sticker!

I thought it said cheeky monkey but this is even worse

It's outrageous that people PMd you screaming for proof. Hope you told them where to go

So it's either unbelievable because it's unacceptable or its harmless. Make your fucking minds up!

@HmmmmmmInteresting yes that was my mistake. I wrote the wrong thing in the thread.

I’m white, and often click on posts from BMN when they come up in Active, but usually just to read and reflect on what is said rather than contribute. I learn a lot from you all.

I found that thread disgusting. It’s the complete denial of other people’s realities that is so depressing and enraging. And the fact it involves a child, and so many absolute idiots still can’t see it from a little person’s perspective is just fucked up.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I support you all in whatever you decide is best.

What I found unbelievable where the amount of posters who claimed to either be black or have a black child who said it wouldn’t be an issue. I don’t know any black person in real life who has reacted with anything but outrage.

Hi, I'm white. Just trying to think of ways to have more control over derailing - could you have more BMN mods able to watch threads and post warnings not to derail/taking action if that is ignored?

@PingedAgain I echo that and am exactly the same. I supported this space from the start and would support anything else felt best.

@Lndnmummy

What I found unbelievable where the amount of posters who claimed to either be black or have a black child who said it wouldn’t be an issue. I don’t know any black person in real life who has reacted with anything but outrage.

I'll leave this here again

I think it's really important that some more general threads remain, I have learned a lot. I am deeply ashamed to say that I asked a colleague if I could feel her hair after she had it braided. The second I started to say it I wanted to die. She was far too polite and said OK. Afterwards I apologized and asked her to please forgive me. Her reply was it's the tip of the iceberg in offensive terms but she also understood that sometimes people try to engage and fall over themselves to be inclusive to the point they over familiar. I am still embarrassed and think it's important to have a kind of osmosis of understanding.

I saw the "cheeky monkey" thread and as a white person all I can add is that it doesn't matter if the offender doesn't agree that they were being/trying to be offensive.
the insult happened and the hurt feelings are valid.

so the only acceptable moves are
a, for teacher to apologise for being ignorant & stupid if it was just that or
b, having some action against them if they were being racist.

I only saw that thread & this because they were in Active btw.
And I understand people in BM are not here to educate white folks. fair enough. You should be able to discuss whatever you need to without constant interruption by people not in the know.
However, I would appreciate it if someone could tell me where there's a place to ask questions. I would genuinely like to learn because I'm a good egg.
But of course I'm aware my needs are not important here and if I'm in any way offensive please report my post.

love & peace

I'm a good egg too although actual eggs need an epipen

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.

Compared to the now withdrawn original "Monkey Sticker" thread, this one is a world of difference, in tone and discussion.

Keep your thoughts coming, and I'll try and sum up suggestions towards the end of the thread. and post them for everyone on BMN to look at. I hope that's ok? (I'm kind of doing this on the hoof, no one has elected me or anything )

I'll flag the thread up to MNHQ then, and hopefully that will inform how things move forward.

We are a Brave Space, if not quite, a Safe Place.

@Nengineer

I was never aware about the hair touching issue until I saw an episode in "How to get away with Murder" (on Netflix, a fantastic show on it's on right, and a huge eye-opener. Viola Davis is incredible.)
I had no idea it is a huge no-no and why. So I looked it up and I'm so grateful to the person who wrote a brilliant article about it.

And when I saw John Leguizamo's Latin History for morons (also on Netflix, also brilliant although I'm biased coz I luffs him) I remember thinking that a Black History for morons would be great too.

Right, I'm out. Sorry for hogging space.

@Nengineer and @ZingDramaQueenOfSheeba

Thanks for your posts, you've got me thinking too. It's good that people follow some of the discussions on here between ourselves, and have the courtesy not to interrupt.

We are all different on BMN, age, location, education, heritage, politics even. As someone on here says, we are not a Monolith.

There's a good book called " Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race" by Reni Eddo-Lodge. If you can pick one up second hand, it really is a good read. It's not nasty, or anti white, it's got a lot of hidden history in it too. (I'm not on commission ha ha.)

Or have a look at this for starters, and dip in and out.
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/black-history/

Maybe an Education/Awareness thread in BMN to post on? Just thinking this through.

Anyway, I'm back minding two little girls in a moment as they have made about 2000 fridge magnets while I've sneaked on here. So I'll be back much later.......

It took a bit to post this. I am ashamed. So thanks for listening to me.

I'm white so I'll second what @PingedAgain said. I learn, even though it's not anyone's job to educate. Taking it off Active will stop that.

I wonder if MNHQ can just have a rule that if you get deleted on BMNers once you get the topic hidden for you. It might be too relentless for that though. Some threads are just vile.

@EchoNan

oh my, they've been busy! 🤣what will they do with all the fridge magnets?

thank you so much for answering.
yes, I'll get that book. and will look up link too.
there is a BLM section on Netflix and I have got some programmes in my watch list.

Every time I re-watch Fresh Prince that line "why aren't we taught about black history" (not direct quote) hits me.
Exactly!
I think a Q&A thread would be good. but not if BM posters would feel it would undermine them or their voices being heard.

I really am grateful for your reply.
Black lives are in danger and the more everyone knows the more everyone can do.
I'm certainly trying.
love you all x

I am a white mumsnetter.
I couldn't believe the lengths some posters on that thread were going to to pretend racism doesn't happen.
That sticker is horrible. They can't even pretend its the cute cuddly animal sticker aimed at the nursery/reception children who like monkeys.

I have found several threads in the Black Mumsnet section very interesting and informative (although I appreciate they are not there to educate). It was the only place on Mumsnet that mentioned the police officer convicted of Manslaughter for example.

@Lndnmummy I'm sorry your son has experienced this at school.

So I think the questions/educational piece is entirely different which needs to be separate. It’s not the aim or purpose of BMN. I do think a locked board where you’d have to get admitted might be the only way to go. After the plaster thread we had some discussions on emigrating from MN altogether and start/find a black owned social media platform. I don’t know.
What’s been heartwarming is to see that posters out there are reading, learning and reflecting behind the scenes,thank you for sharing that.
I’ve been (and still am) really critical of some of the moderating on mumsnet but I’ve to admit they were on the ball last night.
So some small wins but man overall it’s really bloody depressing. 1/2 day to go then new school. There is a pretty hefty formal grievance being drafted as we speak. I hope that although it’s too late for my child it may help others.

Hi everyone. I’m white and also find this board really useful/interesting so not sure about keeping it hidden. I’m a governor and our school is aiming to be anti racist. I would certainly support any issues being brought up with governors if the initial complaint isn’t dealt with satisfactorily by the head. Governors is where you go if you have a complaint about the head. There’s gonna be racists trying to derail your threads whatever you do. Even setting up a new forum, people will just join and pretend to be black and derail threads. Or a hidden one, same. I don’t know what the answer is.

I saw the stickers thread and hid it. I've been here long enough to know how these kind of threads end up and its always so enraging and disappointing I've stopped being surprised at the racism on MN.

I don't know what the answer is. On the one hand limiting it to only posters who have a history is one option to weed out the trolls but it doesn't stop the racist long term posters. It would be a shame for it to be hidden because it is an important part of MN and even posters who don't contribute learn a lot from these threads.

Im FWR there is the ongoing Quentin Bunbury thread, which is really helpful when dealing with disruptors, derailers and shit posters. I'm on the app so I can't link right now. I know a lot of BMN posters don't like FWR but they get a lot of similar bad faith posters and are very experienced in putting them in their place.

But the purpose of BMN is to serve their users, keep them safe and away from harm. The purpose of BMN is not to serve as a question bank or educational space outside of their demographic. If that’s a side effect then that’s fine but it should not and must not be a consideration above the safety and well-being of the BMN demographic. So for me the unequivocal stance is “how can we protect ourselves and get the use that WE need”. It’s not, and must NOT be about “but oh no, then so and so lose an educational opportunity”.

Yeah I thought that Lndn after I posted. I hope you all find something that works.

It’s not, and must NOT be about “but oh no, then so and so lose an educational opportunity”.

I think you're absolutely right -- it isn't comparable to, say, the FWR boards because this board is very specifically titled for its primary users, Black Mumsnetters: it's not called "Race theory" or "Racism chat for all"! Whereas the various feminism boards are titled after the abstract debates: they're not called "feminist Mumsnetters". It's a crucial difference. I think if the majority of users of the board would prefer it not to show up in Active, or have heavier moderation conditions, that should be absolutely their choice.

I'm so glad to hear your DS is moving to another school, @Lndnmummy; and that you're going to put in a formal complaint. As I said before, this should definitely go to the Head asap and (if you don't get any satisfactory outcome from the Head) to the governors. But given schools' public sector equality duty I would hope this should be taken very seriously indeed by the Head.

And I'm sure everyone on the thread will join me in sending love and best wishes to your DS, and hope that he has a lovely summer.