Due November 2009 - second trimester thread part 2

[skorpion]

Hope this works

Hola! (or Oh-La as someone used to say...suits my mood better today...) Just thought I'd come in for a quick rant about kiddicare.com but I'll spare you from it as I can't NOT comment on the bilingualism. Please feel free to skip the whole post, it'll be a looooong one.

I was raised bilingual. My dad only ever spoke his 1st language to me and my mum only ever spoke her 1st language to me (even though both of them were fluent in the other too). From what I've been told, starting from the first words, I learned both languages at a similar speed. I had a couple of made-up words (half-and-half) but what kid doesn't? Apparently I also refused to speak the "wrong" language to the "wrong" parent, and ended up stubbornly translating if anyone happened to speak to either of my parents in the "wrong" language too. (We lived in a 50-50 bilingual town.)

I went through most of school in my mum's language, but did do an "exchange" while in High School so that I got two terms in dad's language too. Went to Uni in England, so I suppose that doesn't count.

I consider it the greatest gift my parents have given me, and I am forever grateful that they both took the time for it... dad especially, as they divorced when I was 6 and he really had to go the extra mile (more like 100...) to make sure I didn't lose touch not just with him, but also the language and culture. It was hard for a while, as mum moved me to a monolingual place where the minority language was frowned upon. I've seen videos from that time, and I did develop an accent for a while. Fast forward to me being a teenager (read: old enough to escape the hell hole my mum had moved me to) and I spent every weekend and all my holidays back in my home town, which is where I also ended up doing the "exchange". Much thanks to that, my circle of friends to this day are speakers of the minority language. There's only one person I keep in touch with who's from the place mum moved me to.

I can't stress how important this all ended up being for me, on so many levels. Not only did I learn another language and gain another culture... it ended up giving me a whole other life, too. Without going into too much detail - I don't know where I'd be without it. Have you ever hear the saying "a new language opens a door to a new soul"? I think for me, the other language ended up also being a way out of a very miserable situation. I honestly don't know where I'd be without it.

I tell anyone and everyone who has the opportunity to bring their child up to be bilingual to do it. (Although I've never really gone into the personal details before...) It doesn't cost anything, it's not really that hard, and you're most certainly not teaching your child, you're interacting in your own language, which the child will pick up without any effort.

It leaves me quite torn, as I'm now married to someone who speaks English. It's taken quite a few heated arguments to get him to see the benefit of me speaking a different language to the bean (and don't even get me started on MIL's opinions on the subject!) but DH is now fully on board. (Although, I must say, I still don't think he quite gets that I plan on only speaking my language to the bean, at all times.)

The problem? "My" language. Because I'm bilingual, I have two. Do I pick the majority language or the minority language? Leaving all emotions aside, it would certainly make sense to pick the majority one, but I also think that the minority needs every boost it can get. Add to that, that the majority one is very hard to learn so it would make sense that the bean would get that one from me. But emotionally? The minority language is what I consider my own language. I've kept all my diaries in that language, and have a blog in that language. All my friends back home speak that language, as does the side of the family that I'm closer to. Not to mention the fact that in a way, I feel I'm indebted to that language for "saving" me.

I've spent months thinking about this, and I think the right thing to do is to do the sensible thing. For once in my life, I need to let the head rule the heart. I'll speak the majority language to the bean, and hopefully, in that way, I'll also manage to reclaim it for me, somehow.

Ummm, I guess what I'm trying to say is:

Please give your child(ren) the gift of another language if you can. It'll make their life richer and easier. There are no disadvantages (apart from the possibility of them starting to speak a bit later). They will not grow up confused, nor will they end up speaking both badly. It'll also allow them to access your culture from the inside - something they'll never be able to do if they don't speak the language fluently.

Please forgive me for going on... it's such an emotional subject right now. (Come to think of it... so is anything. I cry at adverts.)

As you were.

Ninja cross posted...
You may remember that this is another issue that I end up ranting and raving about

Excuse my language, but "DS has to obey the contact order" WTF????? Since when is "has to obey" the grounds for a healthy, loving relationship? It's beyond me that your ex can't see that if anything he should be concerned about rebuilding the relationship, not making demands on your DS.

Does your DS legally not have a say in any of this? (In most countries, DC's views are taken into account when orders are granted.) Although I realize that your DS may not feel comfortable in having to have a say IYSWIM, I still think it's something that your ex could do with considering.

I don't see how your DS can be made to spend 2 weeks (or any time at all) with his dad against his will, or even reluctantly. That surely would do more damage than good?

Why is it that Fathers for Justice get so much press but stuff like this is just considered normal? Wish there was something I could do!

Thanks Broodzilla. One day I might learn that I'm just not dealing with a rational human being.
He wants everything to be perfect with his new life and DS having any problem with that just doesn't go along with his narrative.
The court order is old so is now a bit like tryong to put a found peg in a square hole but to change it means engaging ds in court process. It looks like this might have to be what happens. I just thought it's healthier for a child if the adults can be reasonable and make the decisions.
In the past this man has attacked me, threatened me with knives, left suicide messages.... I'll stop now it's all too much to revisit and here's probably not the right place.
For ds's sake I've really tried to stay civil with him and since dp has been around he's had to back off physically but I wonder if he's not trying to get to me by punishing his son.
It doesn't help that my hormones are every where and the smallest thing sets me off.

"For ds's sake I've really tried to stay civil with him and since dp has been around he's had to back off physically but I wonder if he's not trying to get to me by punishing his son."

Believe me, your DS will know this. Both that you've tried, and the real reason behind his dad behaving the way he does. Kids are far more perceptive than (most) adults give them credit for! Again, nothing of your ex's behaviour is likely to endear him to your DS, but I am sure that your DS feels loved and supported by you (and your DP by the sounds of it) and really, that's all that matters. The rest of it are his dad's issues.

Have you thought about counseling for your DS? It might help him if he could talk it all through with someone neutral? Also, just a thought, is any of what's happened in the past documented anywhere? If so, surely that would work against your ex having DS for visits (especially for such a long time?)

I can only imagine how stressful this is for your right now, but just keep telling yourself that you're in the right. You are.

Ds has had counseling in the past because he witnessed quite a bit of violence and this made a huge difference. I've offered to get him some more but he doesn't want it. He seems fine, just resigned to the fact his Dad is a bit of of pillock.
Perhaps I should take his lead and just not let it wind me up.

He admitted DV in court but because it was towards me not ds it doesn't really affect contact. The cafcas woman did say that ds would probably decide to see less of his Dad as he got older and that once he was 12 he could have a say in access so I think that's where were at now.

I just find his blindness to his sons needs very frustrating.

Sorry will stop ranting now or I might never stop. On the plus side dp is fantastic with ds and treats him as his own. When we first got together he saw ds and I were struggling so pulled together a male group of family and friends so that ds had positive male role models and is ds's confident when it comes to all thing Boy that I (apparently) could never understand.

Ninjacat, this all sounds terrible, glad to hear that you have such a supportive partner. I feel really sorry for your son. He is already a teenager, isn't he? I really hope you can sort that out soon.
Broodzilla, I so you for being perfectly bilingual but I don't wan't to make your decision about your choice more difficult but I would have said you should choose the language you feel closer and more comfortable in. If you kept your diaries in the minority language you should probably choose this language. Talking to your child will be a heart thing not a brain thing. I can see your point about which language would be more "useful" for your child but I think being perfectly bilingual would already be enough. He/She could still learn any other language later. (May I ask which languages you are talking about? Didn't you say you were Scandinavian?)
But I agree with you that you have to choose ONE, otherwise the child would probably really get confused.
And just to let your husband (and especially your MIL know), being bilingual will be a huge benefit for the child. But if you chose to speak English (even only sometimes) you would definitely harm your childs linguistic development!

Broodzilla I'm also really intrigued about what your languages are.

Oh and ursigurke and Broodzilla thank you for your kind words. Going to try and put it to the back of my mind until DP returns Monday.

Hello!

@Koumak: I went to UCLH on Friday and I'm SO pleased to have changed! There is such a big difference between Whittington and UCLH. And being in a modern environment is so reassuring.

Re the language conversation, it is so important to speak more than one. And the sooner your learn the easier it is to learn a new language later. Between the 2 of us we speak 5 languages perfectly and have been discussing which ones to use with the baby,probably French and English and will try to find a Dutch speaking nanny.

I'm not really showing yet (while the baby is apparently alreay 25cm)Is anyone else in the same situation? I want a big belly!

Ponkey - I seem to have plenty of baby belly to go round - you can have some of mine!! SIL is at same stage and she is hardly showing, so not just you!

DS woke up from his afternoon nap yesterday with a fever of 101 and struggling to breathe. He was trying to cry, but struggling to get air into his lungs, and then he started vomiting. We rang the NHS helpline, and apparently triggered some emergency response with 'child under five with temperature and struggling to breathe' so I got my first trip in an ambulance courtesy of Mr Pants today. Familial history of asthma, you suck.

They think he's got a virus, but probably not swine flu - they gave him steroids, painkillers and an inhaler. They kept us in for three hours (during which time the fever went down, his breathing eased, and he got more and more chipper - oh my God, hell is being stuck with a cranky toddler in a hospital cubicle who keeps trying to leg it away from you across the A and E towards the nice vomiting drunk in the opposite cubicle). We have a Tamiflu prescription as well, although I'm honestly undecided about whether to give it to him - if they think it's just an ordinary virus with asthma complicating things, then I'm reluctant to unleash Tamiflu on the kid.

Anyway, we were up every four hours last night giving him the inhaler - he decided at about 2 am that the inhaler was NOT, in fact, a fun new game, and started trying to fight us off while wheezing and gasping - and he sounds better this morning. I am knackered though.

Worse thing about being a parent - when your kid is sick or in pain, and clinging to you with this absolute trust that you can make it better somehow, and you're thinking 'Kid, I have NO idea what I'm doing here.'

Morning all!

Wow so much to catch up again!

We went pram shopping yesterday and got exactly what we decided we weren't going to get I love it though, even though we spent way more than planned .
We got an easywalker (3 wheeler) with a carrycot in bright red, it is so sturdy yet light and has a huge pushchair for when lo is bigger, the carrycot is a good size too so will last right through the winter. We got a buggy board for ds2 too! Oh I sound like a sales rep
Also managed to get crib mattress, new v cushion (ds1 likes to sleep with the other) and a free play gym thingy!

Anyway enough about me, nija what a nightmare your your exp sounds, you poor thing.
ponkey glad you like your new hospital, its always a worry when you switch midway.

I'm loving the idea of teaching lo a second language, I recently went back to college to learn french and ds1 loved trying to pick some of it up.

Right going to wake ds2 up, I think 9.40am is late enough to sleep in !
Have a good day.

ninja What a nightmare your ex is being and how awful that your poor DSs feelings are not being taken into account. I really hope you an find a solution that doesn't involve too much stress.

tamlin hope your DS is ok. I imagine looking after sick children is one of the most stressful things about being a parent.

I was out with my best friend and godson yesterday. He's 11 and always bumping into things and falling over. Yesterday he managed to trip up and take the skin off all of one of his armpits and was really crying and in shock. She said there's nothing in the parenting books that tells you about how to deal with things like that! I'm gonna be a nervous wreck.

I had a makeover done yesterday at a Dior counter and ended up buying loads of expensive make up for wedding. Am booked to have highlights this afternoon. Honestly, I know now why I don't usually bother with this sort of stuff! Got my family arriving on Tues and wedding on Sat. Scary stuff

Tamlin what a nightmare. Trust your instincts, it sounds to me like you you do know what your doing even if it doesn't feel like it. Ds is obviously blessed with very caring and loving parents. Hope he bounces back soon.

Lemontop and Tigger thank you

Lemontop I'm feeling quite excited thinking about weddings. DP proposed on a beach back at home in Pembrokeshire but it's our secret at the moment. Will wait until after the baby is born to make an announcement. DP has always been set against marriage so I think there will be a few shocked family and friends

lemontop glad to 'see' you in a better mood. How exciting, a week to go! I'm sure it will all go fantastically well, have a brilliant day.

tamlin what a scary story. I hope your LO is getting better by the hour. I imagine you're absolutely right, the feeling of helplessness must be awful. Big hug to the boy, get better soon.

ninja I agree with broodzilla on this one - kids see and understand much more than given credit for. You and your DP seem to be doing a great job of being parents and I'm sure this is not going unappreciated. Even though your DS is only a child, whatever is happening to him now will shape his future relationship with his father. It's such a shame and so stupid that the grown-up is so blind and doesn't recognise the harm he's doing. To himself as well. What if this new relationship doesn't work out? He may be left on his own in old age and it will be way too late to do anything about it. I'm sorry to rant on this, but I speak from personal experience and get angry when I see a parent doing this. It is so easy to ruin what should be a most natural of relationships. And it is never ruined by the child.

Thank you, ladies, for your thoughts on languages. I don't think it was ever a question for me whether to do it or not. I absolutely love the fact that my kid will know all the things I learned as a child, so much great literature for example. And I would never deprive her of the contact with my side of family, that is just not possible, as I am close with them anyway. My only bit of confusion comes from the fact that the only language I can communicate in with DH is English. It is the language I expressed love in for the first time, having been here for so long I think in English, dream in English, my whole adult life has been in English. I guess what I'm trying to say I feel like English is actually my first language now. I think you're right, learning two languages from the moment go can only be an advantage.

Sorry to go on. Enjoy the rest of your weekend!

Tamlin - your poor little man, hope he (and you!) are feeling better soon.

So much talk of wedding, Congratulations Ninjacat! We have one of my oldest (i.e. known each each other long while - not that she's old!) friend's wedding in 2 weeks, cannot wait (partic for 2 nights child free!!). Just been on notonthehighstreet and bought few more bits for he that i didn't need -love that website!

ninja Congratulations!!!

Hi hope you dont mind me joining your thread? Im due november 7th just found this chat! Anyway thought id say hi do any of you live in london?

Tamlin your poor little boy. I find illness the hardest thing about being a parent! The worry never stops.

DH and I saw Harry Potter last night (ie the film, not the boy walking around Shrewsbury!). The DSs had a night out at the grandparents. Before the film we ate at one of those Chinese buffet places and I suffered all night with the horribliest indigestion and heart burn ever Serves me right for mixing crispy pancakes with cho main, egg fried rice, satay sauce, beef black bean sauce, noodles, and heaven knows what else.

Hello missese! There are a lot of people here from London (not me though).

ninja yeah! That's lovely

Welcome misssese

Harry Potter is brilliant, cant wait for deathly hallows to come out!

I worked last night, woke up at half six this morning, with achey arms and legs and feeling dizzy, hoping its more pregnancy and work-related rather than SF tho. am bit worried tho as i work in a petrol station and have people right up close to me but i did use the hand-gel frequently (as tesco have decided to issue all depts. free alcohol hand gels to prevent illness spreading and losing all their staff)
taking mat leave at 32 weeks which is quite early i kno tho some of it includes holiday, but i really think this six weeks cant come quick enough.

thats my whinge over!

hoping everyone is well.

back from our big summer hols in devon..what a fawltey tour disaster...terrential rain, in crappy caravan which felt like it was on a train line and DD very poorly first 3 nights, i think it was croup but could have been swine flu who needs everything from toothache to toeached now seems to be called swine flu! anyway we did have a good time but glad to be home..

however DD appears to have developed tantrum fever and its non stop screaming and clenched fists...joy..

still get a surprise when i get my babycentre emails telling me how far gone i am at how fast time in flying thought i did weight myself this morning and appear to have doubled in weight in last week..maybe undetected triplets..

have another week off work and two chid free bliss days for cinema and shopping, can't wait

dont have time to catch up on last weeks post but hope everyone is going well and bumps are progressing nicely

loving BB at the mo

way past my bed time..adios

Hiya,

I was wondering how long everyone is taking for maternity leave?

Ponkey - with DD I took 6m (that ws what we got paid for (inc stat mat)at the time, with DS it had increased to 9m, I think this time round I'll take 8-9m - depends on how far the savings stretch - have to take into account going back to work for a month before getting paid.

Weston - sorry to hear your holiday was a bit of a wash out.

Sorry if TMI so early in morning but is anyone else suffering badly with constipation? (didn't have it this bad with other 2) have read that milk of magnesia can be taken in pregnancy -has anyone used it or anything else to good effect?!

Been making a list of things i 'would like' and those i 'need' for baby! the need list really isn't very long as already have clothes, fully equipped nursery, double buggy, sling etc but am trying to slyly move things from the 'would like' to 'need' without DH noticing!

Hoping to get to see Harry Potter this week sometime, heard good things!

Welcome missese, there are a couple of us in London, me for example.
Ponkey, don't know yet, but I'll start rather early, end of August, well, I'll take one or two weeks of holiday first. I will probably get bored after the holiday but I would probably not be very useful anymore and as we will have a lot less business from september on, I don't want to "steal" hours from my younger colleagues. Going back is an interesting question as I wouldn't want to go back fulltime but then it will probably be difficult to earn enough for a good child care. So, I have to see with my boss, if I can only work a couple of hours, mainly admin which I could do with the baby in tow.
beepbeep, good luck with the list adaption

im only planning on taking 26 weeks mat leave with a couple of weeks hol added on, so 30th of Aug should be my last working day. Id rather take additional mat leave but cant afford to.