December 08 - a few babies under the tree still need unwrapping!

[EffiePerine]

New thread ladies. I have a feeling I will be talking to myself a lot

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Cat, WG, and Verso I hope you are all getting some sleep now. Massive sympathies from me. DS has had many nights like that although thankfully now (at 6 weeks) he has about as many good nights as bad. Hopefully your little ones will start to settle a bit more soon too.

Just a quickie as am feeding little O.

Sorry to all those with babies having crying jags/wind/colic etc Cat, I wish I could help. Dentinox, a dummy, I bet you have tried all those things. Massage? I am so sorry for you.

WG - Dentinox is basically dill oil mixed with some other stuff to make it the right consistency. It's not too evil despite horrid medicinal name. There may well be a website if you want to check it out. It seems to make my DD fart rather than burp, but hey. She hated the taste and spat it out at first and pulled the most comical faces (unlike Infacol which she LOVED) but she is ok with it now. Anything which bursts the bubbles in her poor tummy which cause her so much pain is fine by me. The syringe is only there for ease but you don't have to use it - perhaps you could try getting it in some other way? I think it was wither Veggie or Turnip who mentioned homeopathic remedies if you prefer them? Chamomilla I think was one of them?

Effie, WG, Kim - fantastic birth stories. Jeepers WG, your sounds a bit hairy. Thank heavens you were both ok.

Summer - no baths for 4-6 weeks I was told...I love 'em, but I only have a bath in London anyhoo so there's been no temptation for me here...

Reban - with four children to manage I think you must be a very organised and capable lady.

Trace, of COURSE tell your friend to join us!

Kim, was it you who was asking about numbness? I still have it and I think it lasts ages. As for roll of flesh/fat/skin I am told that if I lose weight and do loads of tummy exercises it will disappear or at least look a lot better. Personally I am dubious but apart from the horrendous weight gain I can't complain too much about the effect of having a baby on my body - it's really not TOO bad (and all worth it

Arti and KMP, I think I will be in Westfield on Mon any time from about 2.30 on. Just give me a buzz if you are around - 07795217915.

It's light across the frosty fields and a very handsome pheasant is stalking about the garden - it is so beautiful. Have a lovely weekend you all. I am off to London for this wedding, sans DD, and I won't be on until tomorrow.

morning!

Just a quickie - am trying to settle dd2 off to sleep and entertain a clingy dd2 simultaneously while dh sleeps peacefully on the sofa - poor lamb - this 2hrly breast feeding is really tiring him out - even though we're sleeping in separate rooms [horrible sarcastic wife emoticon]!

anyway - had a thought - has anyone's baby smiled yet? just thought if we hear about each other's little positive milestrones it might encourage those who feel the current poo-sleep-scream cycle is endless with nothing back fr4om the LO. Does that make sense? sorry it's hard to think or type with dd2 climbing over me and talking incessantly!

will come back later xxx

Morning trace! Yes ds has smiled a few times in the last week or so. He doesn't really smile at anything but I'm sure it's more than wind (hopeful emoticon!). You're absolutely right, the first time he did a really big, non-windy smile it totally made up for all the crying and just melted my heart and made me smile for hours!

trace good plan re positive milestones - much better to focus on the up side! Yes, DD2 has smiled - though she most consistently smiles at DD1 (bless) and my boobs (not-so-bless). DH is miffed because she hasn't smiled at him yet.

I have a sore head as I found myself banging it rhythmically against the headboard at 4am because I. Had. Had. Enough. Very weird behaviour - feel quite normal during the day but find the nights REALLY DIFFICULT.

DH is pestering me for you know what . Where do I start with how wrong that feels?

Congratulations Effie. Lovely story. Hurray for another great midwife.

Love the photos Kayz. Your DS2 looks a bit like my DD2 but I suspect that is just because they are both so big.

Oh what a night! .

Yesterday we endevoured to keep DD awake more in the day. This seemed to lead to a slightly grumpy, windy evening and things were not looking promising. However, it did mean she sort of cluster fed all evening. At 10.15pm I gave her a final feed and DH got her to sleep by swaddling and then bouncing on the birthing ball. At 11.15 she settled in her moses basket (gasp!). Then we all slept, not for one hour, or two, or three but four long peaceful hours. Then DD woke at 3.15am. I bothered to sit up properly and feed her, then burped her and put her back in her moses basket at 3.45am. And for the first time ever she settled for a second time. And we slept. Not for one hour, or two, or three but for four more lovely hours .

I hope this little tale gives everyone who is suffering some hope. The previous night had not been good. I am sure it was all a flash in the pan, and I will be sobbing on here tomorrow, but still...

Congratulations Turnip and Oli - and what gorgeous names. Never heard of Liaden before - looking forward to hearing what weird & wonderful pronunciation it has, given Turnip's previous form on names (I'm thinking Lemon maybe? ). And congrats to March29 too - sounds pretty dramatic!

Good to hear you got your MLU birth Effie. Looking forward to meeting the wee man soon.

Cat in terms of how you know your baby is getting enough hind milk, then if the majority of poos are yellow then there is no problem. If not and your baby is falling asleep after 5-10 minutes it may be a good idea to offer the same side first next time if you suspect he/she has not emptied the breast. You need to change breasts when the baby is no longer drinking (see link below) or when you can feel that the breast is empty. I am in the habit of having a feel of how firm each breast is at the beginning of the feed (a quick squeeze in between the armpit & nipple). If there is still firmness after the baby has been on the first side I continue to offer that side until the firmness is completely gone, and only then do I switch sides. I find that if I start off on the half-empty breast and switch to the fuller one half way through the feed I avoid the more frenzied sucking on the fuller breast and DD takes in less air that way.

This link has been posted before and I'm sure will be posted again but I'd definitely recommend spending some time on Dr Jack Newman's site if you haven't already, particularly for the video clips. It shows you how to recognise whether the baby is drinking, and there is also a really useful technique called Breast Compression which helps the baby get the richer milk at the end of the feed, especially if your baby gets tired quickly.

On the wind issue, DD also struggles with it quite a bit. I'm using a variety of methods to keep it at bay - they are all helping a bit but none of them clear it up completely.

• Trying to minimise air taken in during the feed. I mainly do this by feeding first from the emptier breast (see above), and by making sure I get to her as soon as she shows any sign of hunger rather than waiting for her to cry. When she's getting ready for a feed she makes a coughing or snuffling noise and shows her tongue.

• Winding mid-feed as well as after the feed - I use a combination of over-the-shoulder, face down, sitting up with chin & chest supported, tiger pose (or whatever it's called), with patting and circular motion on the back and left side. To be honest this has limited success with DD - I think most of the time when she swallows air she swallows it so hard it very often passes the point of no return and is only coming out the other end! Also winding mid-feed sometimes makes her a bit impatient to carry on feeding, even though I know she has wind to bring up - it can be a bit counter-productive if it makes her feed more frenziedly when I put her back on.

• Holding her upright for a while after feeds and propping up her moses basket with a couple of books. This is more to stop her being sick than anything, but should also help any stray wind escaping.

• Distraction. A change of scene or passing the baby to someone else seems to work for a while, sometimes long enough for her to fall asleep.

• Walking around. Can work if the baby drops off but otherwise only works until you stop ... not ideal at 1 in the morning!

• As others have said, massaging the tummy in a clockwise motion seems to help. I second rosmerta's suggestion of pushing the legs up towards the chest to help them release the wind. It sometimes takes a while but once I've got 2 or 3 out of her she does seem to calm down noticeably. An olive oil massage after the last nappy change of the day seems to relax her a bit.

• Finger sucking (or dummy if I could persuade her to take one). I tend to use this one in the evening as I find that if I just keep on feeding and feeding her it only makes things worse and she tends to be sick. It's not always easy to tell the difference between when she wants to suck because she's uncomfortable and when she's hungry but if she's hungry she tends to give me the fat tongue thing (showing me the top of her tongue) and when she's windy it tends to be pointing the tip of the tongue and darting it in and out - this is often accompanied by rolling eyes (if she needs to burp) or a red, screwed up face and pulling up her legs (if she needs to fart).

• Dentinox. I've used this a few times when things have been really bad. Like others have said, I use a fraction of the recommended dose (I think they say 2.5ml and I use about a fifth of that otherwise she just pukes it up). The jury is out as to how much difference it makes.

I haven't tried cutting out any foods, but the worst 3 days she had were over Christmas when I was eating tons of sprouts, roast parsnips etc. Could be coincidence though as it started on Christmas Eve, so before all the roast dinners. It has settled down a lot since, but that could be because I'm trying lots of things. I read the other day that some women have reported more colic when they take vitamin supplements as well. I haven't been taking any in the last few days - I normally do - and things do seem to have improved (again, could be pure coincidence).

I also found this link somewhere on MN the other day and it has some other suggestions as well.

Hi ladies - just wanted to pop in and see how EFFIE was doing - well done you! (and to all others who have popped thus far and good luck to those of you who have it ahead of you.)

Me again - I was looking for MAJORMOO have you name changed? Have you had your littly yet?

Verso poor thing. Is your 6 week check this week? Sounds like you could do with mentioning how you're feeling to someone. And I would recommend slapping your DH rhythmically rather than hurting your head!

arti glad to hear you had a good night. Been meaning to ask you by the way - what did your friend say about your choice of name?

Well much as I would love to meet you for a coffee LadyT, Westfield on Monday sounds like my worst nightmare. I managed one department store the other day in my pathetic quest for just one garment that doesn't make me look like the bastard child of John Prescott and Bernard Manning before scurrying back to my mum's to comfort myself with fistfuls of leftover Quality Street. Cat, if you fancy something to distract you from DP's first day back at work we could meet up for a coffee or I could bring a baguette up to yours and make you a sandwich for lunch? Let me know.

Rumpel hi & thanks for your good wishes - majormoo had a baby boy named Jesse on 19th December.

Realise I sound like a bitofanutter . Didn't mean to. I don't have PND - I know I don't because it felt completely different to this. Bleak emptiness all day every day. I just sometimes find I have The Rage - at about 3/4am when I find I have almost no patience left. I still manage to be kind and gentle and sweet with DD2 but just wish someone would show me the same courtesy, if that makes sense!!

Great thanks for letting me know and well done MAJORMOO Good luck everyone

Verso I know how you feel. I tend to get the rage at around 4/5pm, when I just lose patience with both of them. Dh was back at work yesterday and I practically threw both the boys at him when he got home.

trace good idea with the postive milestones. We have had a couple of smiles from ds2, when he's looking at the black and white books which he loves.

We're going to try and make a serious effort to get ds to settle at night. Part of me thinks that it shouldn't matter if we cuddle him to sleep as he's still a newborn, but its just getting worse. He wakes up every couple of hours & takes another hour to properly settle, even if cuddled. So we came up with a list of things to try, hopefully at least one of them will work!

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poison thank you so much for taking the time to post all of that info - am off to read the links as I have no idea how to tell if a breast is empty and whether DS is actually swallowing - he usually feeds for 30 mins but last night he was on my right side for 45 mins then wasn't satisfied until he had a further 20 mins on the left - I am sure my right produces less and that he was sucking but getting nothing... hopefully Dr. Newman can put me right

anyone got a virtual hug going spare?
am struggling with dd1. She's really playing up - answering back, saying no to everything, ignoring us, shouting, having strops...and is constantly saying she's tired. She's not responding to me like normal and I'm feeling really cross with her and don't know how to get through to her to get my old Lucy back. But at the same time I just feel really sorry for her that we've turned her little world upside down. She's been an only one for 4 years and then within 3 weeks has got a baby sister, has left nursery and will never see those friends or teachers again, had christmas so loads of fuss from grandparents, and is starting full time school on Tuesday. She's had no routine for 3 weeks and obviously hasn't a clue if she's coming or going. When I'm with dd2 I feel bad.
This is always my worst time of day (tears and fears!) so I know things will seem brighter in the morning. Just feel like a crap mum for not knowing how to make things easier for Lucy.

No probs mibbes - hope you find it as useful as I did. By the way I've been meaning to say for ages how impressed I am with your managing to breastfeed after starting off with bottles - very inspiring.

{{{{hug}}}} trace. Is there any way you can plan some special time just you and dd1? I made popcorn w dd1 today and also took her for a drive in mummy's car... silly things maybe but real one-on-one time.

anyone near s london fancy meeting up sometime? can promise am quite sane really IKEA anyone? or mothercare world purley way?

rosmerta thanks for empathising - helps to know am not alone!!

catdean don't mind sharing at all! The list is to start a bedtime routine, settle him in the bedroom as soon as he's had his evening feed (instead of living room), try a grobag & try him in the cot. We're going to try one thing at a time though & then move on if it doesn't seem to make any difference.

Dh did say today that if none of it worked then we should think about putting ds2 in his own room because SIL did that at 2 weeks & her dd started sleeping through then. Needless to say I was a bit .

[hugs] trace, I agree with Verso about trying to find some 1-to-1 time. Ds1 likes to help get tea/bottles ready, & I've taken him to the park etc. Plus I think when they get back into their routine, they will settle down again [wishful face]

verso there's probably millions of women who feel the same, just doesn't seem like it when you're in that mood though!

i'm interested in night time routines too. I find it goes to pot because i'm bf on demand... how do you keep on track during eg a growth spurt? do you wake for feeds/bath time etc? all tips welcome...

Hello everyone,

Golly, it has taken me ages to catch up and now DD is starting to wake up for her feed. Eek! Congratulations to everyone who has popped over Christmas and new year. Is that everyone now?

Sorry to hear so many of you are struggling with feeding and/or windy babies. I hope things ease soon.

I'm afraid I'll have to dash but will try and keep up with the thread in future.