Due June - 'I can't remember my own name, let alone where I put the creme eggs...'

[PregnantPenguin]

For those of us with 3 months to go or less....

Good luck Josie

Morning all,

Bit of a nightmare morning here with the car not starting and being over an hour late for work - on a v. important day when lots of things are happening that I need to be here for!! Oh well - boss was very understanding.

I've had the very low down kicks too, it feels like bug is trying to kick his/her way out. Last night I think Bug decided to lay across me, instead of head up, and my belly got very tight on one side. DP was v. excited that we could tell it was a head. I told him I've been able to tell for ages, but it's the first time it's been really really obvious.

The stretching across the top of my belly feels muscular, so i think it could be just stretching, but i've noticed it happens more in the car (for some odd reason). Maybe it has something to do with my posture in those seats?

Good luck to all with aquanatal/mattresses/interviews/midwives/doulas etc...

Morning. PP - thanks for the link to that article. Am even more torn (perhaps not the best word, eh?) about what to do. I think I have a fairly high pain threshold, but I don't enjoy being in pain, so why should I have any pain whatsoever if I don't have to? I don't believe a painful experience will make me a better mum. But then, no one seems to be able to agree on the side effects of pain relief. Is it better to have a problems because of an epi (if there are any - don't jump on me, it seems there are, but new research says not) than risk post birth nightmares about how horrific it was?

Oh, if only we knew what would really happen to us an individuals if we took one course of action over another it would be so much easier! My head hurts!!!!!!

Anyway, I tried the natal hypno relaxation cd last night, and that woman's voice got right on my tits straight away! And the pan pipey type music. But I persevered. Maybe it has had some effect, there's a bit about eating the right foods, and I did turn down a scone and jam this morning when I got into work.....

Hope everyone is having a good day, and all going well with mattress, interview, shopping, etc etc.

Hello all. Just to say with some help (legal in Holland) mil passed away yesterday. Dp was there with her and think he feels a relief now she is not in pain anymore.

Im here in GC as cant fly anymore 30wks and HBP dr wont let me. So constant phonecalls are keeping me going and the dog and the cat are keeping me company!!

Well just thought id let you all know ill be on a bit more when have finished uni assignments as life still has to go on Speak soon

Paro - so sorry to here about your MIL, must be very mixed emotions for you and DH at the moment. I remember when my GP's died my parents felt relief as well as sadness, I would also like a choice as well.

I have linked again to a website that encourages you to get the baby in the right positiion as this helps lessen intervention according to my MW's who have done a study on it, it is just sitting right and lying right so hope this helps.

www.homebirth.org.uk/ofp.htm

Sorry

www.homebirth.org.uk/ofp.htm

Para - sorry to hear about your MIL but glad your dp could be there with her. It can't have been easy for him seeing her in so much pain.

Aberdeen - I know two people who were pregnant when they did their PhD defences, one was 8 months and the other was on her due date . Whilst I don't think they were given an easy time they didn't have the longest viva's as I think the examiners were concerned about raising their stress levels! Mind you another guy in my department had a 6 hour viva and they had to send out for lunch! What did you do your PhD in?

Mellymell - I have actually moved out to sunny Forest Hill now (wanted a house with a garden etc... and just couldn't afford Clapham) but still up for Clapham Common Walks etc...

PP - the aqua natal I found is actually in Beckenham, which may be a bit far from you...? Not sure about Clapham, but they are bound to have one, given the 'yummy mummy' nature of the place these days...

Interesting article re: the epidural - but has made me more confused than ever!!!

Whereabouts are you guys based then?

Anyone else in SW/SE London?

I'm sure that if men had to give birth epidurals would be given routinely as soon as labour begins. Its just that we have been brain-washed into believing that we have to manage (and be in agony) to have a good birth - which is crap.

I had an epidural for my first birth after a hideous first 25 hours and it was fantastic. I offered to kiss the guy who put it in. And I don't feel at all that I failed in that labour, I needed that relief, and probably should have had it about 20 hours earlier. I didn't have one with the second but by the time I was fully dilated I really wanted it!

The problem I think is not whether you should have one, but whether you will be allowed one. My local hospital won't routinely give an epidural unless you are considered to 'need' it. Don't ask me how they decide, I really don't know...

Para - I'm sorry about your MIL, and I know there are no words that we can say to make it better - just know we are thinking of you.

So sorry about your MiL, Para. You're in my thoughts.
x

kitten - I'm in Ham (between Richmond and Kingston)

PP - v interesting article which reinforces how conflicting all the advice we get is!!

Last time round, I devoured every natural childbirth manual I could get my hands (Ina May, Kitzinger, Odent etc) and did everything "by the book" - loads of yoga, swimming, pelvic tilting, sat only on birth ball at home for last 8 weeks, healthy veggie diet, only put on 16lb, BP excellent blah blah. Was in established labour at home for 17 hours using only breathing and water pool for pain relief (kept putting off gas and air was thought pushing was only round the corner!)

Basically, I don't see how I could have tried harder to have a natural birth and in the end, I STILL needed drastic medical intervention when my placenta finally abrupted

I could write a book about how screwed up emotionally I was afterwards, feelings of shame / guilt / Nam-esque flashbacks of C Section which consultant claimed was "fastest she'd ever seen"

I (think!) have got my head back in order this time and am trying to keep a more open mind. I am trying very hard not to invest too much emotionally in the idea of "the perfect birth" and just see what happens on the day. What happened to me was very rare and is unlikely to happen again. But we have decided to go for the midwife led unit this time which is in the same building as the consultant led unit in case of another emergency

I still strongly believe though that we give ourselves the best CHANCE and it's only a chance, of a natural delivery, if we are allowed to move freely, not strapped to a bed being poked and prodded every two minutes. But if despite all this, you need intervention, I think it's best to be mentally prepared and be flexible - you are still having a baby and are still a MIRACLE worker whatever happens!!!

What really helped me put things into perspective was learning about the Campaign to End Fistula Look here It sounds cheesey I know but finding out about the thousands of women in poorer nations who lose their babies after hours of obstructed labour (because there's no facilities for C section) and then are left doubly incontinent (and hence shunned by their communities) brought it all home to me about how f**king lucky we are here in the UK. The charity offers operations to repair the damage and the women can finally return home and pick up their lives. I sent them a donation after DS birth and I will be doing the same in June no matter how I end up giving birth!!

But am so having some gas and air this time

Interesting article about epidurals... why feel like a failure if you have one? That is ridiculous. Obviously we'd all love to breathe through the pain and have a wonderful experience but I know loads of women who had eps and everything was fine. My little sis had one after 12 hours of labour cos she was exhausted. She slept for a bit, let the ep wear off and then pushed her baby out. No stitches or anything.

My MW (and a lot of the books) say you are more likely to have more intervention having had an ep and that is the worrying thing, not whether you have "failed" because you didn't experience the pain. That is so silly. I am still in two minds because my consultant wants me to have one for the second twin in case she is breech, but I really don't want to be hooked up to machines, IVs, a catheter etc. That is the downside to an ep I think.

Neenz sorry can't help it but it the midst of all this Serious Discussion -

Woooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww I can't believe you're having twins!!!!!!!!!!

para - so sorry to hear about your MIL, sending hugs...

josie - my PhD is in physical oceanography - bit of a obscure area but I find it really interesting.

sybilvimes - my hospital's like yours, it's hard to get an epidural out of them! I had to ask for several hours before I got mine - and it would have been much better if I'd had it earlier as we were getting a bit too close to the pushing stage before I did.

thanks basilbrush for the good example of keeping perspective...

Hi everyone, thanks all for the interesting links to articles/websites. The benefit of being in denial about birth is that it wouldn't even have occured to me to feel guilty/a failure about having an epidural . Have no idea yet about what my hospital policy is on these kind of things - is this something my mw should have told me already or is she only likely to tell me if I ask? Got my 28 week (at nearly 29) appt next week so should really make a list.

Sophie, thanks for the homebirth website; some useful information on there about positions etc - but like me, did you find it a bit over-long, over-wordy, over-complicated? They could so have done a 1 page doc with some diagrams and made the same points.

Para, like everyone else I'm so sorry to hear about your MIL. Hope you and your family bearing up ok.

To be honest that article left me thinking that all the experts were a bit extreme in their various opinions. Altho it did occur to me that if you are more likely to have intervention following an epi it is because medical staff assume that will be your wishes. "She had an epidural, she wants a very medicalised birth (instead of just wanting the pain to go away)..." thinking?

Part of me decided not to do NCT antenatal classes because I didn't want to feel guilty if I end up wanting an epidural. Altho I will still do their coffee morningsm etc to meet other Mums. Why is it such a big thing? I can honestly say I have no idea what pain relief is offered/used/available for a man having the snip and the idea of me judging them based on it seems ludicrous....

Clapham Kitten / MellyMell - I am in Wimbledon - Colliers Wood right now. If everything goes to plan it will be South Wimbledon soon, but am really not holding my breath! Posted a thread on pregnancy re: yoga classes and aquanatal classes in SW London and got some great responses re yoga. Looks like your classes in Beckenham may be the closest aqua ones, don;t think I'll see you there tho.. Have you seen this place? If I win the lottery I'll treat us all to membership

Para - Sorry to hear about your MIL.

Wishing everyone luck with mattresses / interviews / doulas /yoga / houses - Phew!

Hmm, following all those links led me eventually to these stats (From:
women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/body_and_soul/article1493155.ece ). Thank you modern medicine! (Still hoping for a natural birth if possible).

In the past 50 years rates of Caesarean section in England and Wales have risen dramatically, but deaths among babies and mothers have dropped.

CAESAREAN RATES
1950 3 per cent of all births
2002 22 per cent of all births
Source: National Statistics

Maternal mortality rates
1950 About 70 deaths per 100,000 births
2000 12 deaths per 100,000 births
Source: UN Population Division

Perinatal mortality rates
1950 37 per 1,000 births
2004 8.2 per 1,000 births
Source: National Statistics

PP, for all that Spa looks lovely, the website just made me want to eat cakes! Not sure if that's a good thing for a spa or not!

Paro, just wanted to add my condolences and hope you're ok.

It's never occurred to me to feel 'guilty' about whatever happens in labour. I salute anyone who's been there and got the t-shirt for a natural birth, but I refuse to be brainwashed into thinking that's the only way to do this. I definitely feel confused though!

PP, good point about the epi leading to more intervention if medical teams think that you're 'ok' about medicalisation. I don't want loads of intervention, I just don't want to be in pain! Sybil, yes, I agree re men and pain relief - I also think that there would be better solutions if that were the case, such as pain relief without side effects.

Dramaqueen, I have my next mw appointment next week, and I have a huge list of questions! I'm also going to book to go and have a look at around the hospital in a couple of weeks.

Hi there

Paro, so sorry about your mil. Sending [hugs] - it must be very disappointing that you can't be there with your DP.

Births - hmmmm. I have heard that the reason that women who have epidurals are more likely to have instrumental births is because you basically can't feel what's going on - and it therefore interferes in the natural hoo-bijammies. As a veteran of an epidural with syntocinon, and an instrumental delivery, I can testify to that. But I think my case was pretty extreme as I had been on the epidural for 10 hours before DS finally came.

I think it's great that we have all these options, but natural childbirth or otherwise stirs up such a maelstrom that many women feel cheated because they didn't follow their birth plan. Part of my head-in-sand approach is a feeling that there may be no point investing in all of these lovely birth plan ideas when I'm probably going to be induced again anyway.

And finally, I may have mentioned that I've been working pretty hard. I've been feeling less and less in control as have a very high value project with tight deadlines and a client who is not delivering his end of the bargain. I've also had really bad insomnia and have been hyperventilating because of it. Have been asking work for support but they didn't (indeed said they couldn't) help.

Anyway, I went to the doctor today and my BP had gone through the roof. So she signed me off sick until 7 April. I always knew it was a possibility but I'm still feeling pretty stunned. Work is now having to be supportive but it feels a bit shit. Oh well, I guess I'll be around here a bit more than I have been of late.

Josie - hope the interviews went well.

Am deeply chuffed with DH. He has managed to buy a Phil & Ted for £185 which is unheard of. He will be getting a cream egg as a prize for being so marvellous. Obviously, I will have to buy one for myself to keep him company.

PP - that spa place looks lovely. I had heard about it before actually, but obviously discounted it as far too expensive! Think maybe we should all be purchasing lottery tickets this weekend... x

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