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August 2018 #5

993 replies

peterpanwendy · 03/04/2018 21:01

As we enter month 5 of our pregnancies we need a 5th thread!

Good luck to everyone having their 20 week scan this/next week :)

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93
Gem173 · 04/06/2018 11:16

What’s that @NikkiL123? Xx so exciting when we get deliveries!

NikkiL123 · 04/06/2018 11:22

@Gem173 his pram and travel system 😃x

FoxtrotSkarloey · 04/06/2018 11:22

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Emmasmum2013 · 04/06/2018 11:59

Is that really a thing? That you're not meant to have formula in the house in case you have a wobble and decide not to BF for whatever reason? And somehow not having formula will encourage you not to BF so you should not have it at all? My attitude is that fed is best... formula or breast. I have images in my head of poor punished women with all manner of BF issues, having to persevere because they've no other choice :(

Emmasmum2013 · 04/06/2018 12:03

@NikkiL123 - can't wait to see it all made!! Also, prepare for impending divorce when building the pram and putting the car seat in the car for the first time.. if you and your OH can get through that, you'll be ok with a baby! Grin

@FoxtrotSkarloey - I think I gave mine a feed about half an hour after she was born. I she was put on my chest as soon as she was born and I asked if I should try and give her a feed and the midwife said hang on for a bit. So I think it was about half an hour after she was born? After they'd done all the weighing and stuff, and dad had had a cuddle etc. Its all a blur now!

NikkiL123 · 04/06/2018 12:39

@Emmasmum2013 that just made me laugh and snort at the same time 😂😳, we argued yesterday about putting winter coats in the garage so pram/nursery assembly is going to be hilarious/challenging!

FoxtrotSkarloey · 04/06/2018 13:27

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Gem173 · 04/06/2018 16:10

I’m going to try bf but have two types of formula, cow and gate and aptamil, in the house ready to go. I know it’s gunna be hard and I’m really wanting to formula feed but it’s my ohs persistence that I should try bf which has got me to try bf to see if it goes okay. If it does happy days, if not I won’t feel bad for going to formula xx

peterpanwendy · 04/06/2018 17:24

I had no idea formula went off so quickly @BertieBotts thanks for sharing!

I am in the same boat @WaitingforToto I'm so desperate to BF I'm so worried something will go wrong.

@YouCantBeSirius those blankets are dreamy 😍

So about BF.. I've heard/read that milk doesn't normally come in until day 3, well usually you don't stay in hospital/birthing centre 3 days so what do you do after you get home and then the milk comes in? Will they have helped you establish a latch in hospital before letting you go home? And what if milk is delayed coming in? Will there still be colostrum? I'm so nervous sorry for all my Q's I just really really want to do it x

OP posts:
WaitingforToto · 04/06/2018 17:48

@peterpanwendy I've booked a breastfeeding class via my local nhs trust, it's at the hospital. I'm hoping all questions will be answered then, I'm going to start making some notes now so I'm prepared with what I want to ask. Might be worth seeing if there's one in your area (I'm in Leeds). It's a one off class, not a course, and is the only antenatal class I'm doing.

WaitingforToto · 04/06/2018 17:51

Here's a link to the one I'm doing @peterpanwendy I hope the link works:

www.eventbrite.com/e/preparing-to-breastfeed-tickets-46654133770?aff=erelexpmlt

BertieBotts · 04/06/2018 18:12

Well there are always 24 hour Tescos Emma :) It's not like it's intended to make it impossible or forbidden, it's just supposed to remove it as a first run-to, to give you the time and space to try other things first. It's more of a psychological thing - that if you're expecting to fail you're more likely to if that makes sense, and some of BF success is related to confidence. An article I read years ago likened having formula and bottles "just in case" to a young man on his wedding night having a dildo on the nightstand "just in case" he couldn't perform for his new bride - somewhat intimidating in the face of something that people can sometimes feel very anxious and fragile about. To be honest I feel like this advice is mostly relevant for people who have partners or family who are very jumpy about breastfeeding and who are likely to be hovering and questioning constantly and asking to give a bottle when the baby is absolutely fine.

Some people feel that's too extreme and would prefer to have formula available immediately because it lessens the anxiety and pressure of being literally the only option available. I think it's really a personal choice, I don't think anybody should be saying "Ooh no you mustn't have formula" OR "You've got to have some - just in case". It's really down to what makes the individual feel more comfortable. Formula as a supplement can be harmless or it can seriously undermine breastfeeding and it largely depends on how you use it. If you are turning to formula to solve what you (or other people, sometimes) perceive as problems with breastfeeding then you're likely to end up with more and more problems, because formula cannot solve BF issues, and serious issues do not tend to go away magically in time. If you're using it as part of a planned approach (especially if you understand how BF supply and demand works in the early days, e.g. not leaving frequent massive gaps, breasts not needing time to "refill"), or sporadically to give yourself a break every now and again or as an emergency sticking plaster because BF is not working/you're too tired or sore and you just need the baby to be fed, then it can be absolutely fine, but in the latter situation you do need to seek out support for your BF issues as well if you want to continue (preferably after you've had some sleep, or a break, or a double gin and tonic or whatever it is you need). It's not going to harm BF in those situations so having it in the house or using it before X magical date absolutely isn't a death knoll for BF or anything like that.

My opinion is more - for me having the formula as a backup is unnecessary - we'll muddle through if need be and it's only ever a few hours until the shops open, even though there aren't any 24 hour shops where we are. I'm more anti buying things we don't need than anti formula. We can get it later if and when we want to use it, which I think is likely to be yes at some point, I can't be arsed with pumping this time.

After birth - they come out pretty satiated having had constant nutrition in the womb so there is no immediate rush but most babies will latch spontaneously within the first hour if left alone. Google "The breast crawl" for some amazing videos of this. DS did not (not that we did the proper positioning for the crawl thing, I didn't know about it) and once we were taken to the ward we both promptly fell asleep for about six hours and I woke up in a panic going OMG I haven't fed him he's going to starve why did nobody wake me up?? A lovely midwife calmed me down and showed me he was totally fine and helped me get him latched and it didn't seem to do him any harm. Nobody is going to let your baby starve so don't worry about this. If you can't produce any breastmilk at first or you can't get a latch at all then they will help you to express if you want to and if you still can't/don't want to then they will absolutely provide formula, they wouldn't just leave a baby hungry, especially if it got to a point they were concerned about blood sugar levels.

BertieBotts · 04/06/2018 18:29

You produce colostrum before your milk comes in. The milk coming in refers to the switch from colostrum to mature milk. If your milk is late coming in, you'll still have colostrum until that point. Colostrum is much more concentrated than mature milk so it sustains babies even though it's only produced in tiny quantities (about 1-5ml per feed). If you need to express colostrum sometimes it's better to do it with a dropper so that you don't waste any within the workings of the pump. But if you need to do this in hospital they'll show you how.

Latching is exactly the same with colostrum and mature milk, so you don't need to learn it again, with the exception that when your milk first comes in, you might struggle to latch initially, as your breasts will probably be engorged (very full and hard). If you're struggling it can help to hand-express a bit off - google marmet technique and bookmark the most helpful looking link.

Formula usually has a use by date of months and months but this only refers to when the tub is sealed. After it's open you have to use it within a certain period or the nutrients will start to degrade and the powder can get damp and clump together. I am probably wrong about it being a week though but it should say on the packaging, so you could check in the supermarket.

WaitingforToto · 04/06/2018 18:34

Thanks @BertieBotts this is all really helpful

peterpanwendy · 04/06/2018 19:15

Yes @BertieBotts thank you so much! I am really nervous but also really determined and hopefully my already leaky boobs Blush are a good sign.

@WaitingforToto thank you! I will ask my midwife if she can recommend any in my area x

OP posts:
Emmasmum2013 · 04/06/2018 19:45

I really really hope you all have success in whatever method you want to use to feed. I know I harp on about there being too much pressure on women to BF, and that I preferred formula, but I also know how lovely it feels to have baby latch and to be able to feed them (it just didn’t work out for me unfortunately).

In other news... I feel like a whale. Why is my arse so massive? Baby is not growing there. Why is it so big???? Doesn’t help as well that another person today asked me if there was definitely only one in there. And yesterday I said to my mum that I’m dreading having to wear a swimsuit of bikini on holiday and her response was “well you shouldn’t have booked it then!” I just said “thaaaaanks 🤨” we booked it in February.

StrawberryLemonade · 04/06/2018 19:46

Breastfeeding is hard work. It was for me anyway. I almost switched so many times with DD but sheer stubbornness kept me going! We struggled for a few weeks before her tongue tie was diagnosed at 8 weeks old then it became much easier. Initially we didn’t buy formula but DH ended up getting some simply because she was jaundiced before my milk came in and we needed to do small top ups to avoid readmission to hospital. Once my milk came in and we figured out how to feed it got much easier. I had daily support at home for over a week until latch etc was sorted.
Sorry if I’m making this sound difficult - it really was for me. But this time I’m expecting it to be and anything better is a bonus.
I was in tears beating myself up because I felt so guilty if I couldn’t feed her. However so so glad I persevered with it and fed for 18 months.
Take whatever support you can get with it!

Had my antenatal health visitor assessment today which was fine.

BertieBotts · 04/06/2018 19:58

No need to be nervous, I think you can overthink BF, knowing where to look for GOOD support and info is key IME. It is a shame this is not available immediately but NHS staff are hit and miss with BF info because there is neither the staffing, money or training available to standardise it. And it's def OK to use formula as a tool to help you keep going as long as you look for that support as well if that makes sense (of course... if you've had enough or it's not working for you at any point, that's also a valid choice!) I wish there was no guilt or morality attached to it as I don't think that helps. Same with birth choices - you have to use whatever tools enable you to get through with the most healthy outcome which most defo includes mental health.

Ugh I am craving chocolate SO badly and we have none in the house and the nearest shop is a bus ride away. I've found some old stale cheap chocolate and vanilla cereal and it's almost working, but it's horrible!

Gizzymum · 04/06/2018 20:27

Re: BF - I had difficulty with DS1 and hospital wouldn't discharge us until we had feeding sorted which was 4 days (and a snip for tongue tie and provision of nipple shields to help him latch) later. My hospital provided formula when needed (when I was too exhausted to express and DS was starving). They also taught me to hand express etc so I wouldn't worry too much about googling stuff now. Your midwife should know if your hospital would provide formula if needed.

They make sure your latch is sorted and the colostrum has all the nutrients a baby needs until the milk comes in. The latch is the same for colostrum as it is when the milk comes in (hope that makes sense).

My view is the same as @Emmasmum2013 - fed is best. I ended up formula feeding as my DS just wasn't getting enough milk from me. I tried everything to get it to work for over 3 months (many trips to the bf support team at my hospital) but it just didn't . Also, cos he was so hungry his sleep was shocking (I'd be lucky to get an hour at a time, it would take an hour to feed, half an hour to settle him, then half an hour for me to get to sleep, then he'd be awake again in 30-60mins time), so DH would do a formula bottle a night from about 1 month old to give me a precious 2-3hrs sleep in a row. I think I survived the first couple of months on a max of 5hrs sleep a night. I went into it all thinking I'd exclusively BF. I just wish someone had told me to formula feed sooner, rather than my DS getting so skinny and us all struggling so much, including the pressure to keep BF (he was dropping further and further off the 0.4th centile and looking back at his photos it makes me so sad). He is now the biggest of his NCT peers and is the first walker!

All of my other NCT mums are still BF so it's not all bad, and they didn't have any major issues with it.

For first BF they tend to put them on to suckle quite soon (defo within an hour from memory). For more BF info La Leche League is quite handy. I think they may also have a helpline if any problems. I know my NCT course gave out a helpline number too.

NikkiL123 · 04/06/2018 21:04

💕💕😍😍

August 2018 #5
Gem173 · 04/06/2018 21:46

Looks lush @Nikkil123!! Xx

somersetsinger · 04/06/2018 22:35

My experience of bf fits with Bertie's. DD did the breastcrawl soon after birth and then slept overnight before she wanted to feed again.

When I was pregnant last time, a friend gave me a copy of The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding by La Leche League. I had no experience at all of breastfeeding and it was really helpful in explaining all the stuff I didn't know (and didn't know that I didn't know). So if anyone is interested, I'd recommend that, but nothing beats having some hands on practical help too.

Somewhere in the first week, a fairly old school midwife helped me with the latch and basically gave me a kick up the arse to try harder. DH was a bit shocked at her approach but she was right, I persevered, my milk came in and DD got over her jaundice and started to put on weight.

BertieBotts · 04/06/2018 22:44

I think The Food of Love by Kate Evans is pretty good as well facts wise but I'm not sure that it's not a bit biased towards BF being wonderful and better in every way which I don't think is necessarily the case. You can see some previews on her site though so if you like it it is probably worth a buy since the info is good.

Gizzymum · 05/06/2018 07:39

To be honest, having a book doesn't solve BF problems if you truly have them.

If you want to BF, good luck and I really hope it works as the special bonding time you get when feeding is amazing, but I do feel all the talk about how having formula in the house gives people an "easy way out" is putting pressure on people to BF even when it's not working. Making the decision to switch from BF to FF (even though at that point, when he was 3.5mths old, DS was refusing to BF) was one of the hardest decisions I've had to make since being a Mum.

For those wondering if I "persevered", I had weekly visits to the HV, almost weekly visits to the GP (they were that concerned about his weight) and went to the BF clinic at least 4 times within 3 months (each time they checked my latch and said it was fine). I ate oats to boost supply, and tried fenugreek too for the same reason (although came out in hives so had to stop), I also tried expressing between feeds (so basically spent every waking hour feeding or expressing) to boost supply too.

I've found that having the extra hour free each feed to interact with DS was special in its own way (yes, feeding took that long as I had to try both breasts, then with hand compressions, and then offer formula top
up afterwards).

As you can probably tell, BF is a very emotive issue for me and I just feel like people saying all you have to do is persevere are severely underestimating the problems some people can have.

Gizzymum · 05/06/2018 08:22

To change topics, in case anyone was considering co-sleeping, this website is meant to be quite helpful

https://www.isisonline.org.uk/wherebabiesssleep/parentsbed/

I never have done it but lots of my previous MN antenatal group did/do and found it worked for them.

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