Graduated Elderberries - Thread 8

[Cavort]

The over 30's expecting/just given birth to their first little bundle of joy.

Thread 8 already!!

Alex a MW is very unlikely to give you an epidural if you're at the stage where it is likely to slow labour down. I had my waters broken for me and after that the pain reached a level which I just couldn't cope with (Elodie was back to back). I tried pethidine first but found it did nothing for me (I do know women who've had pethididne and gone to sleep for a few hours afterwards so it must affect everyone differently) and I hated G&A (just made me feel like I had a mouth full of feathers) so then I asked for the epidural and it was BRILLIANT! Within a few minutes of having it I was sitting up in bed eating a jacket potato, having a cup of tea and reading a magazine, whereas only a few minutes earlier I was honestly hoping someone would shoot me and put me out of my misery I am a total wuss I understand it's not for everyone and it undeniably does lead to more intervention, but I personally thought it was great and made the birth a much more enjoyable experience for me. I was even laughing and joking while pushing. My waters were broken at 2.5cm dilated at around 4.30pm, had the epidural about 5.30pm and Elodie was born at 11.57pm so I don't think it slowed things down for me.

Hazle I am totally with your Mum on that one, I would love a robot vacuum cleaner! Which? have a few reviews but doesn't list Best Buys so I will send you the reviews as a FB message so you can decide which is best.

I'm with you on that one merk. I also can't be bothered to wait once I've decided I want something but I thought I'd mention it.
Yes def to tens machine. It kept me sane during the night. I hired mine online for about 30quid if I remember rightly. You can also get it from children's centre, boots or buy your own.
You seem very organised!!!! Wow

Merk I bought a Femme Tens with boost button which I used for most of my 5 day latent labour marathon and found it was great. I hated having to take it off for showers but I had it on constantly otherwise and even slept in it. I was even reluctant to take it off in established labour in case G&A wasn't as good which quite frankly it wasn't. I think I paid about £30 for it. If you want I will send you mine and you can send it back when you're done with it? It's just sitting in the cupboard gathering dust now. You would just need to buy new pads and a spare battery so you don't risk a flat battery when in pain.

My lovely neighbour has lent me her tens machine but it's still in the packet! Now I'm on mat leave, I need to make time to look into it and at least learn how to use it in case I want to because I probably won't be arsed or sane enough to read instructions in labour! She found it useful but I know some people don't. I also want to get my car seat and pram out and start learning how to use my equipment while I can (the calm before the storm! )

Am also impressed at the level of preparation!

I always thought that spinal blocks lasted longer than epidurals. I had mine at about 130 and could only just move my legs slightly at 7am. I first tried to walk at 12 when we had to travel all of 5metres to the paediatrician and I nearly fell over. Twice! It's also why I didn't get a shower til I got home.

Had had tens, gas & air and then pethidine before that. Loved gas and air but after 4 hours on drip and only 4cm dilated I needed more help so had the pethidine. Made me a bit sleepy and it didn't take the pain away but I didn't care as much. Still needed gas and air - if I missed the start of the contraction ouch!

But the combo relaxed me loads as I was fully dilated 90 minutes later.

Everything affects people differently - give things a go and your midwife will explain the options.

Cavort did you have to take yours off to have g&a then? I took mine off around the time I had the pethidine because one of the pads was annoying me but I was allowed to keep it on much longer if I wanted it...

Ooh Cavort could I cheekily put my hand up for your TENS and then pass it on to Merk?! DP's dad has one but I don't think he will lend it to us now as his back has gone again and he's using it a lot.

We set up the pram and wheeled it around the flat at the weekend Alex - does make it all feel rather real.
On the subject of shopping lists/preparation I have two bits of advice to ask you lot:
Maternity pads - where do you get them and are they any different to heavy duty sanitary towels? I haven't found any in the chemists.
Bottles (for expressing) - does it matter which ones I get? Do they need to be compatible with the pump? Or is it more a case of finding one which your baby will actually accept?!

maternity pads - someone recommended Tena lady pads instead and that was a good idea, those are very soft and absorbant. I only needed them for a few days though and was then fine with normal towels.

Bottles - more of a case of finding what baby likes. The pumps I have both came with bottles, 2 and 4 respectively.

quod funnily enough I've been given a stack of maternity pads (including some from janey - thanks!) but they just look like big sani towels to me. I think one is mothercare branded on the pack but will check.
On bottles, a friend has lent me her breast pump and some bottles, so I need to buy a steriliser and think that's all you need. There are a couple of different bottle top sizes. The brand I have is Avent I think, and I also think it's best if all the stuff is the same brand. Any more experienced mums please correct me or let me know if I should be thinking of anything else!

You can get proper maternity pads in big supermarkets(Asda do a value pack for 99p). They're bulky but a) the cushioning was welcome to me as a barrier over stitches and b) they say not to use standard period pads because they can mask blood flow and signs of infection.

Don't know how tena pads work but they might be ok sfter the first couple of weeks?

You'll also need loads more than you think - I had 2 large packs and had gone through nearly half of one before going into labour after my waters broke. You'll also probably want to wear 2 at once for the first day or two.

Re bottles some are meant to be better than others if you are breastfeeding. We use the Tommee Tippee closer to nature teats that came with the manual pump. It's not free flowing and H has to adopt a similar tongue/jaw action to breastfeeding.

Normal bottles feed at the front of the tongue but the tt ones go all the way into the mouth like a boob. He's never had any nipple confusion and we gave a couple of bottles in the second week and then sporadically since.

As with everything, really depends. I got a pack of Tenas and pack of normal pads, and still have most of them left. Same with breast pads, I bought loads as everybody said you go through packs and packs, but I don't really leak.

With bottles, Medela is highly recommended, as they have to work to get the milk and it supposedly helps with breastfeeding. But if you happen to have a bottle refuser, NUK First Choice is the one that many fussy babies accept. We are using both of them now, as Viki sometimes agrees to drink from one and then absolutely refuses it a few hours later..

Personally with breast pads I would recommend getting washable ones, I found the disposable ones a bit itchy/irritating. Don't buy Mothercare reusable ones though, they're crapper than crap. I've got some nice ones, think they were Phillips avent and I find them a lot more comfortable. Everyone's different though!

Hazle - we're starting weaning this week too. You'll have to let me know what foods have been a success in your house.

I've been using the lansinol disposable pads and have got on well with them. I still leek loads so am still wearing them everyday.
Re bottles like everyone said it will depend on what baby takes. My pump is avent and you can attach the bottle on to it which is handy - except that she doesn't like that bottle! So I attach a cup for freezer storage and pour into the tomme tippee bottle she likes. I have not tried any others.
It is worth you buying either freezer bags or these cups so as you have somewhere other than the bottle to store milk in fridge or freezer. And choose the best pump you can afford if you plan to express!!

Dumb question... Is it the bottle the babies like/don't like or the teat?

it's the teat, but of course most bottles only take a certain teat, you can't use Avent on Medela or NUK on Tommee.

purple so far he has had avocado (mixed with breastmilk). Will try carrots tomorrow.

How do you find out which teats are compatible with which bottles? Trial and error??
I owe you lot for being my bible, much better than any baby book

Yes if course Quod, send me your address and I'll get it in the post to you.

Merk I read somewhere that the reason you have to use special maternity towels rather than just big sanitary towels is because there are chemicals and perfume in normal towels which can aggravate cuts/tears/stitches. I tried a few brands and found the cheap supermarket ones are just as good, especially Saibsburys as they seemed more breathable. I just used the thick ones for a few weeks and then switched to Boots thin maternity towels so I felt less like I was sitting on a horse.

I am definitely no expert on bottles and teats as Elodie took to pretty much the first one we tried, but I have a Medela Swing pump, use Avent Natural bottles/teats and Lansinoh freezer bags and manage just fine so I don't think everything needs to be the same brand, although their marketing would have you believe it does. The Medela pump came with quite a space-age 'Calma' teat which is supposed to exactly mimic the sucking action at the breast but Elodie hated that and just prefers a normal teat. I presume other brands are the same but the Avent teat size corresponds to baby's age and sucking strength, so Avent size 1 teats are for newborn, size 2 are up to 3 months, size 3 are for 3+ months, etc. You will read loads of advice telling you not to express until baby is X number of weeks or they will get nipple confusion. We first gave Elodie a bottle of expressed at 3 weeks and have had absolutely no issues.

I would say quite the opposite - at 4 weeks, Viki took the Medela, no problem. At 8 weeks, he could already tell the difference and decided that thanks, but no thanks. There are so many teats available that also force the baby to work to get the milk and they shouldn't get lazy - I understand it's a concern with a fast flowing ones.

Has anyone seen this little gem today?

Women to get £200 to breastfeed.

Whatever next!

Yeah I saw that earlier Cavort. I suspect where I live would be a contender to be in the pilot.

Practically, the vouchers would help to buy suitable breastfeeding clothes I guess, and if more 'normal' women breastfed, it may encourage the High Street to cater for breastfeeding.

(By normal, I think there is a perception, especially where I live, that breastfeeding is only done by middle class hippy types)

One of the comments was that the money should be spent on forcing the Sun to feature breastfeeding mothrrs on page 3 every day for a year.

As the real issue (in my experience) is men, maybe this would be more helpful.

Ok quick question, is it normal for Harvey to basically want to feed constantly at 4 days old? I feel like I'm going round in ever decreasing milk circles.

Still feeling a bit down, well more overwhelmed to be honest about the whole birth scenario. I've suffered from depression before and although I know what I'm feeling now is totally normal I want to keep myself in check and not try to be super woman, due to all of that I am considering mixed feeding. Any thoughts? Probably using expressed milk but maybe formula if expressing doesnt work out. It would just mean I didnt hold sole feeding responsibility.

I feel a bit bad as my oh is being amazing and so so supportive but I just want to keep my options open. I know they talk about nipple confusion but he will only feed using nipple shields anyway so I figure a bottle shouldnt be such a problem.

Sorry for the grumpy me me me post!

yes, totally normal. It can certainly be very exhausting and frustrating, but it will pass.

Mother first of all what you are feeling is completely normal and it is completely normal for Harvey to feed that much at 4 days old. Breastfeeding is undeniably tough, especially in the early days but it honestly does get easier. Mixed feeding only refers to formula, if you give Harvey bottles of breast milk you are still EBFing so if you feel like you would like to express so that your OH can do a feed then I personally don't find anything wrong with that. Of course if you choose to give formula there is also absolutely nothing wrong with that and it is personal choice, but if you had your heart set on BFing before the birth I would urge you to perhaps wait a few more days and see how you feel then. When I was in your position finding it hard I used to just set myself the goal of BFing for one more day and then see how I felt and here I am still at it 4 months later. The Kellymom website is an invaluable BFing resource and should answer any questions you have. Keep your chin up, this stage really doesn't very long I promise.

Yep totally normal. The best advice I can give you is not to make any decisions right now. Maybe give yourself a few days. Expressing is in itself a pain in the backside and can in my opinion be worse then breastfeeding. Use it as an opportunity for you to do nothing else but feed . Your oh can burp, change, cook, clean... And you can sit in front of the telly with your boob out.

Thanks ladies, glad to know I'm not alone! I didnt mean to seem doom and gloom just thought I can put on here what I cant normally say in rl .

The feeding itself is ok, especially during the day but last night was so hard as every time I had to get up from laying flat on the bed I felt like I was ripping my scar, I was in so much pain this morning because of it and it got me down. I've piled up pillows on the bed (6 of the buggers) so hopefully tonight will be better.

I have to say the thought of expressing isnt fun, I figure I would actually be making more work for myself. I'll do as you say cav and take it day by day. I am going to aim to do one week, then think about 2 weeks etc work it like that. What will be hard is when paternity leave ends but that is a while off yet and a lot can change in 2 weeks.

Thanks as always