We will brook no argument for a boring, uneventful, blooming pregnancy; followed by a perfectly-timed pain-free sneeze birth; vol 5

[ScreamIfYouWantToMeetSanta]

Hi No Brookers! I do hope this has worked and is in the right place...

I've added a few extra sofas so we have plenty of space for all the Rat Smackers who will be joining us soon. There's also a nice long table filled with mince pies, yule logs, gingerbread snowmen and xmas puds! Plus some non-alcoholic mulled wine. I've strategically positioned a few clean glittery vom buckets under the table, just in case it's still a bit too early for xmas munchies for some people!

As you were...

Oh I had that too Biscuits but after he'd been hospitalised for the second time, so he maybe was borderline starving to be honest. I was grateful, because I was dreading her still going on about breast feeding, I was at breaking point. It was the HV who (after my Mum) told be to go and buy some formula. It felt like permission.

Anyone watch OBEM? The Disney couple's waterbirth looked fab didn't it? The poor woman who was on her second birth reminded me of my birth with DS I really felt for her. I was gutted when that midwife said "anyone who didn't cope first time won't cope the second time". I had managed to convince myself this time would be better but now I'm worried again.

Oh gosh Scarlet - that doesn't sound promising for us the second time round does it. But I am sure I know lots of people who had horrible first births and perfectly fine second births. (Obviously I never actually watched OBEM though because I'm allergic to it!)

I can see where you're coming from Scarlet about feeling like you had 'permission' to get the formula in. The thing was DS wasn't even losing weight or anything - he's never even dipped really on the centile chart thing as far as I can recall so he wasn't underweight or anything. I can't remember all the details of what she said now or why she said it but I think it was something to do with after I'd had mastitis or something so it was stupid advice anyway as I needed to keep feeding to flush it out. So as long as he was still getting enough there was no need for formula. Some poor other mum at the clinic ended up consoling me as I was so distraught about what she'd said, and my MIL and FIL were fuming when I went round there later - I think they were all for phoning her up to give her a piece of their mind. The same HV frequently told me stupid things though so in the end I learned to just nod and smile at her. My own HV was super ace though. Wonder who I'll get this time.....

I think I'd like a water birth this time around if I've got to term - don't suppose I'll be allowed one if it's prem again as I'd need to be attached to all the monitors again.

Biscuits that sounds terrible. It's the same with HV's as any other profession, you get good ones and bad ones. The good thing is they seem to swap around regularly. My first and third ones were very nice and normal. The one in between I found a bit odd. I remember when DS was struggling to poo and had gone off milk around the same time as weaning I asked if it was safe to give him tiny amounts of dilute fruit juice or baby juice as he refused water and she told me that I should never offer my child anything other than water or milk. When he's old enough to go into a shop and buy another drink himself he can have it, but not until then. Ha ha. I won't bother asking for any advice this time, you can pretty much figure things out from talking to other mums and common sense, but when it's all new you sort of do feel like you need someone official to say it's ok.

I was reading the other thread about OBEM of telly addicts and I feel a bit better. A lot of people seemed to think that the midwife who said that was unusually negative and incorrect in saying that. Phew. I forgot you don't watch it Biscuits so apologies for worrying you too.

DS followed his poo on the potty with a huge wee on his bedroom carpet. To be fair he was in the middle of doing a jigsaw so I guess he just didn't think. I had only reminded him about 1 minute before though and he'd said no. I wish I could just fast forward this potty training lark, or pay someone to come in and do it for me.

Ah wee's on carpet are the worst. I used miles of kitchen roll mopping up. He'll get there though. It's a big thing for them to realise that in fact the wee / poo won't wait but the jigsaw or whatever they're doing WILL still be there if they go to the loo and come back! I used to make DS stop what he was doing while I cleaned up to help him get the idea that it wasn't 'more convenient' to just carry on playing. I never told him off or anything but just let him see that we had to tidy up etc when there were accidents. I then found him the other day making one of his soft toys wait by the sink in the utility room because said soft toy had 'done a poo in his pants'

And don't worry about worrying me about the birth - it's never far from my mind! I'm just wondering now when it's going to happen. Anyone psychic and care to let me know?

Oh and also I used to give DS treats for successes, and me treats for when he had an accident

And I agree about the HV thing too - most are sensible but as with any profession you get some not do good, or perhaps some who just don't have such a good 'bedside' manner (not that they were ever near my bed). But you do feel like they are the 'answer' at first so you need someone official to agree with or approve something. This time I think I'll see what I think of the HV before I decide how much of their advice to take. If I don't like mine and I need an official opinion I'll shop around at the clinics until I find one I like

Hi everyone. Haven't posted for a while as nothing to report really. I was feeling abit down last week when I received a letter inviting me to a weight management session at the hospital as my BMI is high( it was 30.7 and the cut off for not obese is 30) I am usually a size 12/14 so was a bit shocked that I was classed as obese! I will just go along and see what they say I suppose.
I am feeling hungry and have the sun in my eyes but my little dog is fast asleep on my lap and I am reluctant to move him. He has become my little shadow since I've been pregnant which is rather sweet but is stopping me doing the things I had planned for today. 5 more mins!

You too are scaring me about potty training!!

The midwife on OBEM was saying that people who hadn't properly come to terms with a traumatic first birth wouldn't cope with a second I think? I was shocked at the girl with PCOS - how much did her mother take over in the delivery room and make it all about her?! Water birth girl was incredible. Her husband was highly irritating though so she must have a high tolerance :)

I saw the mw today and all good, feeling reassured except that baby is still breech!! EEEK. They said they weren't at all worried yet but I think nearly 33 weeks is getting a little close for comfort. Might try the funny plank tilt thing tonight (but with cushions not a plank!).

Ah Pomme potty training will be fine - it might not be the nicest bit while you're going through it but you'll get there. Remember - it's character building (for us, not them )

Brooking that we can turn Baby Pomme with a bit of funny planking . I also read on another thread something about hanging off the sofa and playing music to your fanjo or something? I'll have a look and see if I can find it......

I don't find it very reassuring that it's only those that haven't come to terms with a traumatic birth that won't cope the second time as I'm pretty confident I haven't come to terms with DS's birth - I've just sort of blocked it out. I'm also worried that it might be breech. Or maybe secretly hoping as then they might do a CS? I'm not sure I want a CS but there is a bit of me that wouldn't want to go through labour and just have it all taken out of my hands. Does that sound bad? Obviously I don't want any issues to arise, but I think if it was breech and they couldn't turn it, they might CS me after last time.

I know that probably sounds a bit bad but I just feel a bit like I've never got my head round last time - just sort of ignored it. And I am worried about what sort of a state I might be in after this one. And I just get a sort of panicked feeling in the pit of my stomach when I think about the birth.

I'm also scared that the baby is breech but they won't realise until it's too late. I'm never sure how definite they are when they have a squeeze of my amply padded middle. However, I have to see the mw at 31 weeks (2 weeks time) and it my bump is measuring any further ahead than it already was then I might have to be referred for another growth scan. Although quite what they'll do if my baby is too big I'm not quite sure....

We still might have another scan done for DS to see what's going on in there. Maybe we'll wait and see if they're going to send us for another NHS one after the next mw appt and book it after that if not.

biscuits, I feel exactly like you about the birth process. I daren't think back to my first too much, I have just blocked it out. I think that's why I quite like the idea of CS and am also almost hoping for twin 2 to stay breech. It doesn't mean we won't have totally different second (and third!) births though. I think that's why i had such a panic when the other consultant said I should try for vb regardless of twin 2's position and i actually thought properly about managing a normal delivery, and then straight into another one, possibly breech, possibly assisted and I just panicked.... I know one of the birth cds would help- I wanted a CS I was so scared with dd, then did this cd, every day from 30 weeks, one hour of guided imagery type stuff plus breathing techniques and relaxation and i can't tell you how much difference it made. I almost chose a home birth aftrr it from wanting CS! So reckon its worth a go. I'm looking for mine, can't find it since we moved...

Anyway, I know other things been discussed, but i need to carry on with some work. So distracted though, dd due mmr with Dh in 10 min, keep thinking of her hoping she''ll be like loopy and scarlets dc.

Biscuits - have you asked to see your notes from your first birth at all or anything similar? Might help? Although I suppose it could also make you worry more so maybe not a good idea!! I'm more scared of a cs I think even more so than prolonged and instrumental v birth as I had with dd. the risks are quite high for me both during and after and the recovery scares me too.

All getting a bit near now really.

Playing music to my swollen and unkempt fanjo sounds a bit too odd but hey ho!

Pomme not asked to see notes (don't even know how I'd get them as I'm at a diff hospital this time). I know recovery etc from CS would be hard but I'm thinking better the devil I don't know .

May I ask why the risks are so high for you during and after a CS - ignore if that's too nosey.

Dream - brooking hard for your dd - she's gonna be just fine. Remember she has the immune system of a superhero now.

Ultimately I know I'll get through a VB if I have to, or I'll get through whatever I need to. As long as there's a healthy baby at the end and I'm still in (almost) one piece it's all manageable. But I have a fear of serious downstairs issues which may not be repairable / fixable this time.

at hanging off the sofa while playing music to the fanjo! Hope it works and LO turns, Pomme. Last Thursday Bean was cephalic (at the scan) and breech by Monday's MW appt, so I think they still have plenty of room to move. I know you're a bit further on (am 28+6), but hopefully there's still a bit of wiggle room.

Biscuits, know what you mean about panic and blocking - for me it is not the birth itself per se, it will be if Bean is silent after she's born and needs resuscitation or anything. Had meltdown during OBEM last night - I just want her to come out howling very loudly so I know she's okay! I might ask the consultant to tell me immediately if she's moving/blinking/wriggling even if she isn't crying.

Wants, I would also be upset by a weight management letter - sounds like you are looking at it the right way, though.

too I made sure the midwife at ds2's both knew all about ds1's birth and first few months and asked her to reassure me constantly throughout the cs. She did and it did help. I was still terrified and had really extreme shakes until they had delivered ds2. He gave a loud shout and cried straight away (and so did i). I think there are things that can be done to reduce the terror but unfortunately the memories of earlier issues will probably hang around in the background of any subsequent birth. Sorry not to be more optimistic.

I think I might task DH with explaining what happened last time to the mws - he can probably remember more of it than me anyway!

Too - that sounds like a really good idea to make sure the mw knows how urgently you need to know that it's ok - I think as a general rule they would just tell you if there's a problem so they need to understand that you need to know that everything is OK sooner than soon. Are you having a CS this time?

I forgot to say too Wants that I'm sure it's nothing to worry about with the letter. I'm sure it's one of those things where they have to draw a line somewhere and then if you are 1 millimetre the wrong side of the line you tick the box and have to go through whatever the result is. But I am sure if you are a 12/14 they will not be concerned once they see you. BMI is a notoriously unreliable way of judging weight etc anyway. It's just one of those things where the mw's aren't allowed to decide on anything approaching the 'grey area' so they just have a set criteria to apply. A bit like I was referred to the consultant for DS being prem but he was prem by about 1 day so the consultant just said 'oh i'm not bothered about that' and sent me away again.

I just watched OBEM on the sky planner. Glad I was on my own cos I blubbed at the water birth. That is something I want to try but DH thinks it's too yucky! I will try and get him to watch it so he can see that it probably won't be the blood bath he imagines. I am not thinking to much about the birth yet though but I figured I've done it twice so I am sure I can do it again :) in the end the birth bit is such a small event in the whole scheme of things although I can understand people's anxiety if they found it traumatic the first time.

Been getting lots of baby kicks which is reassuring although DH hasn't felt it yet. He was annoyed last night because he was busy and didn't get to see my bump, won't tonight either as I have a work meeting!

Managed to move dog and get a few bits done but as soon as I sat down again he was on me! I will now relax until his dinnertime and try and remember I need to go and pick DS1 up from music practice before tea.
Oops sorry, I rambled a bit there :/

I'm pretty much sold on the whole cs thing now, even without a traumatic previous experience. I watched OBEM just now, and the main point that struck me was even with the water birth girl the mw was telling her to spread her legs as wide apart as possible. I literally cannot imagine how much it would hurt if I was to spread my legs that wide apart and push down right now, even without contractions! I thought you only had to spread your legs super wide if you were having an instrumental delivery. I don't understand why a cs isn't standard with spd, I mean I literally could NOT do that and be able to walk at any point over the next week at least!

I'm getting a little worried now that the fibroid will move and the hospital will therefore refuse to let me have a cs. I wish this could be set in advance, but they're just going to fob me off until the 36 week scan. I'll just have to speak to the new consultant about it, I'd rather they just considered my cs request right now, the way they would if I only had spd and no fibroid issues, rather than making me sweat it out with worry until 36 weeks.

Anyways, I just need to not think about it and focus on more positive things for now.

It's nice that all our due dates are spaced out enough that we can BROOK NO ARGUMENT for each person's birth individually! We're all going to get through this just fine. Whether it's a cs or a vb, we can all do this!

I'm not sure how you'd do it either Scream - I've not had any SPD symptoms or anything but it just sounds excruciating.

I think it would be nice if your new consultant would say something like 'As things stand, this is what we'll do. However, if A, B or C happens then we'd need to reconsider and it might mean doing X, Y or Z. And if you do have to have a VB then this is the way to make it the easiest'.

Have there been any SPD births on OBEM? And would an epidural get rid of the SPD pain if you had to spread your legs?

I agree too that we WILL all do it - it's kind of nice being able to root for each other :)

I think there is something wrong with me. Just watched OBEM and I still don't have any concerns about labour. At no point have I been worried about it, surely that isn't normal. I thought that watching OBEM would make it a bit more real and prepare me a bit for it but it's having no effect.

The only thing concerning me is that it's suddenly going to kick in and I'll go into panic mode when labour starts.

Nah Jen you'll be fine. I was totally not worried about it last time. At all - I just figured it would all happen - which it did in its own sweet way

Oooh, DS has gone to bed nappy free tonight - wish us luck

Good luck Biscuits and Biscuits' DS although you won't need it

Good luck for the nappy free night Biscuits!

Also, the epidural would mask the pain of spreading my legs during the birth - that's half the problem. If it hurt at the time I would be more adamant about keeping them close together, but while they don't hurt you can do huge amounts of damage to your hips and ligaments without feeling it. Then once the epidural wears off you're in agony. Sometimes SPD sufferers do so much damage in labour under epidural (usually during an instrumental delivery) that they continue to suffer from SPD for months or even years after the birth.

The pain is there for a reason - to stop you doing more damage by spreading your legs too wide!

Ah i see - that makes total sense!

Well I hope your consultant can say something helpful this time. Remind me when the appts are with the mw and consultant?

Good luck Biscuits

That's great you're feeling so positive about the birth jen, not abnormal at all. I was exactly like that too pre-labour with DS, positive, mental attitude and open minded about the whole thing. I'm determined to get that feeling back.

Scream I get what you mean about the epidural masking the pain. It'll be interesting to hear what the new consultant suggests.

I'm hoping dream's DD got on ok with her MMR and that dream is having a well deserved evening out at the cinema.