We will brook no argument for a boring, uneventful, blooming pregnancy; followed by a perfectly-timed pain-free sneeze birth; vol 5

[ScreamIfYouWantToMeetSanta]

Hi No Brookers! I do hope this has worked and is in the right place...

I've added a few extra sofas so we have plenty of space for all the Rat Smackers who will be joining us soon. There's also a nice long table filled with mince pies, yule logs, gingerbread snowmen and xmas puds! Plus some non-alcoholic mulled wine. I've strategically positioned a few clean glittery vom buckets under the table, just in case it's still a bit too early for xmas munchies for some people!

As you were...

Yay, go hawthers! What lovely news, many congratulations on your newest addition x
Will try to get back for a catch up soon, hope everyone had a lovely Christmas.

In a rush on phone

musical it was at a baby shop in wigan Winstanleys pramworld- wierd really, wigan is a small, working-class town up north, but they had the city mini, city elite, double etc out, plus the accessories like the belly bar etc. There is a.thread on the BJCM right now not sure in pregnancy??. Apparently 3 different carrycot tops for it, or you can use it with the Phil and Teds soft cocoon which my friend had (with her P&T buggy) but was so lovely and cosy and she could lift her dd asleep in it from muddy buggy into house still asleep etc. They also display at babyworld in kendal near us, so i think worth ringing independent baby shops. I got mine new nearly 7 months ago from John Lewis for _£175 but it was more for different colours (we went for black and cheap!)

Dream, how is DD doing now? Hope she's coughing less. They only had the BJCM on display at our local Mothercare (I think), so was asking with regard to looking at other models as well as the BJCM... but having talked it through with my mother and DH again today we've decided we'll definitely be going for it! We're not going to bother with a carrycot top, but get a cosy thing for the inside - I'm not too worried about getting somewhere and leaving the baby in the buggy sleeping. Will definitely check out that thread, thanks - and thanks for all your invaluable knowledge/advice!

The cheapest I've seen it for so far is just shy of £200 on John Lewis/Tesco - also probably going for black- cheap, goes with everything, and unisex! I love the purple, but less unisex... and the stone, but would get incredibly dirty I imagine!

Feeling so much happier now we've made decisions about car seat and pram - and now I'm home with my kitten cats. A lovely quiet day at home tomorrow, which sadly will mostly be filled with planning the term ahead... but at least there's plenty of chocolate and tea here to keep me happy.

Congratulations to hawthers on the safe arrival of your baby boy!
Lovely visit with my mum today.she gave me a nice maternity top and a tiny cardigan and hat. She was pleased to see I was sporting a good bump! I probably won't see her again until baby actually arrives! EEK!

I hope Hawthers is enjoying her new arrival. When you have time it would be great if you could tell us your birth story? No rush though, have fun snuggling your little man!

Musical I'm glad you're feeling less overwhelmed with the pram choices. I'm still leaning towards the iCandy, mostly because that way I don't have to spend any time looking into other prams!!

Wants how lovely that you had a nice visit with your Mum. She must be so excited!

I'm feeling a bit down over here. Not really in keeping with the No Brooking spirit I'm afraid. I hope you won't kick me out for my negativity, I hope to regain my old form at some point. It's just that I think I've developed SPD/PGP. The physio told me last week that my hips were very mobile, and then I spent the better part of a week sleeping on crappy (hard and unsupportive) spare beds across various parts of South England (DH's relatives...) and I found the front of my pelvis really hurts whenever I turn over in bed. I was hoping it would improve when I got back to my own, properly supportive, bed. In reality it's just getting worse and even walking around is quite uncomfortable now. I'm just so depressed that I'm only 22 weeks and this is likely to get much much worse as I get heavier. Plus the things which help my sciatica, such as lying on my side or doing yoga, are the things which seem to aggravate this new pelvic pain. I just can't see how I can manage these two separate but related problems. One way or another I just can't see myself getting through this pregnancy without constant pain :( I just want to cry really, 28th April is so far away. I've taken paracetamol for the first time this pregnancy this evening, and it hasn't even touched the pain. I'm petrified of trying to handle the busy season at work, January, without crippling myself. It all feels completely hopeless right now.

I need to snap out of it of course. Feeling sorry for myself helps no one. I don't KNOW that it will get worse. I'll speak to my firm about the situation when I go back, so if I end up unable to walk at some point it won't be completely out of the blue for them. Of course that doesn't address the constant pain issue, but there's nothing I can really do about that other than keep going to the physio and wait it out. Awesome, just awesome.

Apologies for the me me me. I will endeavour to whinge less in my next post I promise.

scream I feel for you, I am really scared about getting spd again with this pregnancy. And sleeping on an unsupportive mattress in a holiday cottage started it for me last time too.

One thing I have heard since is that the support belts etc will only do so much if your pelvis is already out of alignment. You need proper manipulative physio to put it back, but not everywhere will offer it. I found the exercises the physio can show you helped somewhat too.

I also swear by using a gym ball to sit on, don't think I'd have been able to sit on a sofa when pregnant with dd otherwise x

Scream - Sorry you're in so much pain, yes, definitely speak to work as soon as and keep all communication with HR etc (forward it to your dh or a friend for them to keep too on a server not your work one). Have you told GP/midwife about it?

On a different note - One Born Every MInute is back!!! It was on when I was in my third trimester with dd so feels so fitting it should return. I am SO excited. In both my pgs it will be the sum total of my ante natal classes so I do seem to rely on it somewhat :)

scream, I am joining you on the me me me whinge.

Poor DD has an awful cough. She can't stay asleep. Last night, I was stupid and didn't go to bed early, had just got into bed at 11 when she woke, coughing her little guts up, I was up with her til 1am, then she coughed herself sick at 5:30- DH took her til 7:30 when they both fell asleep til 8:30, so I know I did much better than him but I still feel knackered. He's out walking with his friends, up a hill in he Dales in the wind and rain tonight and I can't get DD to sleep. I have come down and put the tv on to drown out the screaming. She is howling. But I have been sat with her, or in her room since 7pm and I'm no closer to be being asleep, she's powering round her cot. I left her for 20 min a bit ago, to get some toast, but she screamed and screamed and screamed!!!! Then had a total coughing fit so I had to take her up a drink- she was of course not even lying down, but standing up screaming and miserable and crying and coughing. As she's doing now. I'm knackered, I want to go to sleep but she won't. I don't know what to do, tears all round here. I just wish DH would come home- but he won't be back for ages . Honestly. I can't stop whinging about this bloody sleeping business because it's taking/taken over my life...............FFS

The only positive today was my 24 week scan. Boys are only 1 gram apart weight wise! Saw a different consultant though, and they have changed position, so the one who was breech is cephalic, and the one who was cephalic is breech. He basically said if twin 1 is cephalic I should consider a VB first, but kind of reluctantly said it's up to me- I said why I was thinking of a section, and felt totally brushed off and a bit upset about the whole appointment. DH remains adamant I should have a CS.

Also bought boys' cotbeds today, as there is a big delay on delivery (mid to end of Feb, just in case they come early, though today I'm convinced I'll go to term, and in fact biscuits will have her baby at 36 weeks before I have mine!!!). Really pleased, as I wanted this cotbed for DD (but of course took the hand me down cot instead), plus rang the online company who had them up for the cheapest price by far and asked for a twin discount, which she gave without batting an eyelid!!!! So our local baby shop said £689 for the two cot beds plus the changer unit (thought this time I'd get one as my parents can't cope with my change-DD-on-floor situation and complain already and I want their help!) and paid £489.91 today for the same, to be dispatched direct from the manufacturer once in stock. (Cosatto hogarth in light country pine if anyone is interested!). Plus went into town before my scan with DH and bought DD furniture for her room as have no-where to store any more clothes, and not enough space in her rickety old chest of drawers- which was left in our old house when we moved in which is all she has now- and she deserves first lot. Again, asked for a twin discount- at a local furniture shop, buying a wardrobe, single bed, chest of drawers and bed side table, so nothing baby-like at all, and were given £50 off. Bonus. But spent a frightening amount of money today...

scream, go back to your physio and see what she says or recommends. I hope it doesn't get miles worse...It might be flaring up- I had awful back pain/ sij pain a few weeks ago, got referred to physio, and expected nothing but worsening, but actually it's miles better!?! An optimistic story for you. I do have a friend who ended up on crutches by the end, and it may just mean that actually you can't work in the busy January period- she was signed off by 24 weeks. As poor purple has been with hers. No point knackering your body for work... But I hope it doesn't come to that and it's just been aggravated by the beds and will take a little while to settle down.

Anyway, I'm rambling to distract myself from the howling from upstairs... I still don't know what to do, and feel bad as she'll cough til she's sick again and I can't be bothered with that....

that took me so long I missed your posts little and pomme...

pomme, i don't dare watch one born every minute- I'd get too stressed!!! I had a near panic after the appointment today contemplating doing the full labour, and agonising crowning, baby-down-birth-canal bit and then doing it all over again... . I confess to being scared about that, as well as the chances of complications with a twin labour. Especially as both over the 50th centile for a singleton today, just, but a tiny bit over. So maybe over 6lbers by the end?! or more?!

little, my lovely paediatrician friend had bad spd in her first pg and was expecting worse in her second bbut actually had hardly any. I shall Brook No Argument for this for you

and I'm thinking of you with your new little boy hawthers! I hope he is still feeding well and I hope you are getting some sleep. xxx

And in the most exciting (/upsetting) news, all has gone quiet upstairs... I don't dare check, and I feel terrible as I needed to move from her floor and have a break, and she wasn't going to sleep after nearly 2 hours, but she will have been feeling ill and left alone, crying, and fallen asleep... if she has and doesn't pipe up in a minute... [bad mother emoticon]

Scream, part of the relief I feel is that I don't have to keep looking at the prams again! I also like being organised - and I know that once term starts, I'll have 12 weeks of madness, and I didn't want to leave the choosing madness until I'd finished or else there wouldn't be much time left. Actually buying them now we've picked them is easy, but I hate to think how much time I've spent researching everything online.

So sorry to hear about your potential SPD, and the sciatica :( Have you heard of, or looked into, Alexander Technique? I only mention it because it sorted out my sciatica symptoms, and has given me techniques to deal with them when they reappear. I've also applied similar techniques when I've felt like I've been having aches and pains throughout pregnancy so far, and so far it's worked...

Little, brooking no argument that SPD doesn't reappear for you this time round.

Pomme, YAY for One Born Every Minute! Oddly I'm re-watching the first and second series' right now (literally as I type - didn't fancy anything on TV, DH is out, and I needed a night off of work!). I don't think it'll be the sum of my antenatal classes, but I'll definitely be relying on it to educate DH somewhat Putting it on series record now..

Dream, glad your scan went well! And how exciting about the cot beds -what a brilliant discount! I always justify my purchases with "Well, I spent x, but I saved such-and-such percent!".. always makes me feel better! Glad all has gone quiet upstairs - you are not a bad mother! She feels ill, and you can't magically make her feel better :( You are coping amazingly considering the never ending run of illnesses she's had, and the fact you're pregnant with twins. I think you're one of the most patient, saintly, wonderful mum in the world!

Morning all!

After a night with more paracetamol and better pillow-positioning I actually got nearly 6 hours sleep last night! Which is a miracle and has done wonders for my outlook on life. Thank you so much to everyone for the kind helpful words yesterday. I just need to take this one step at a time, and work with the physio, and see where I end up. There's no point terrifying myself with visions of the future when it might not develop that way for me (brooks no argument EXTRA hard!)

Little I will be brooking no argument that the SPD doesn't come back for you this time around! Thanks for the gym ball recommendation, I've been trying to use mine everyday but at the moment I'm not really sure of what to do on it apart from moving my hips in little circles. I will make sure I ask the physio for a couple more ball-exercises I should try when I see her next week. Also, thanks for mentioning the holiday cottage mattress that affected you last time, DH is generally very supportive about how crap I'm feeling but he seems to think I'm being a completely precious princess about the beds at his relatives' houses. I agree that if I didn't have back problems it would be a bit much to whinge about a spare bed (after all, it's better than a couch!) but as I DO have back problems lying on a mattress that has about as much give as a lump of wood really forces my spine into a crazy-painful position when I'm on my side. I'm so glad it's not just me who has been affected by this kind of thing!

Pomme thanks also for your support re work. I definitely need to keep them in the loop. My GP and midwife know all about my sciatica, but the pelvic pain has literally only been around since Xmas so I haven't mentioned it to anyone yet. I was kind of hoping it was all in my head and would go away... no such luck! Oooo very exciting that One Born Every Minute is back on though! I had no idea! How many episodes have I missed? When are they on? (Is it on channel 4?). Need to set a series record...

Dream I hope you're feeling more positive this morning as well. The situation with your DD has been going on for so long that I'm amazed you haven't gone completely crazy with sleep deprivation. You are doing incredibly well, and I'm really hoping that this is the very last hurdle for you and your LO, soon she'll be feeling better and you'll both be getting more sleep. Hang in there! Looking after twins will be a breeze after this

By the way I LOVE your cot!! I'm also really tempted by exactly the same one, but in white/oak instead. For me it's a toss up between the Cosatto, and the Tutti Bambini 3 Bears Cotbed here Nice work getting the twin discount!!

Musical I can easily imagine how much time you've spent researching prams, if it's anything like as much time as I've spent on it!! It's such a minefield. I really feel like the pram is the one item that deserves the most research though, you'll be wholly dependent on your pram when you're out in town, miles from home, on your own with the LO and something isn't going to plan (nappy explosion / overflowing shopping / toddler tantrum / you name it). It's great to have settled on one you're happy with though! Thanks for the Alexander Technique recommendation. I've tried pilates in the past but it didn't work well with my sciatica (too much lying on my back) and I've found yoga really helpful over the last few weeks, but I can't do that anymore because all the wide-leg positions are terrible for SPD. I'll have to look into the Alexander Technique as an alternative.

Apologies for the essay-long post!

Scream you poor thing - sciatica and SPD just sounds like an awful combination. I really do feel for you. Hope the doctor / physio or whoever can help you. As others have said if you end up signed off work that might be the way it has to be but even that won't help you with the fact that you're signed off because of constant pain .

Do you have a GP / physio / mw appt soon that you can talk about it?

Dream how exciting about your shopping bargains! I'm with you on resolutely ignoring OBEM . So sorry to hear about the ongoing sleep troubles though. It's just an impossible situation if your dd can only sleep on you but that does you out of any sleep, unless you have someone who can look after her when she's awake so you can sleep. Any chance of your parents or DH taking her for a bit? It must just be so hard and you just need her to get better before you can really fix the going to sleep on her own thing don't you

Hope everyone else is ok - especially Hawthers and Farley .

We went to Ikea yesterday to get the extra furniture we need for the nursery. Hoping to get that all sorted while DH is off for Christmas - seems early at only 27-28 weeks but as Jan-Mar is dh's busy season the next time I see him might be in the labour suite at the hospital

Hi dream I hope you got more sleep last night. Have you ever seen The Baby Whisperer? She has a sleep technique called pick up, put down which seems very effective and doesn't leave child crying alone. BTW I think you are doing a stirling job with your DD!

biscuits, you think you're early!! I've bought cotbeds and I'm 24 weeks 27-28 is fine, you are having a nice healthy baby, probably at 36 weeks .

scream, I like the 3 bears cot too. Some of them only have one split side so when they're a toddler bed the head end is as high as the cot side was which I'm not keen on but that fussiness ruled out loads for me! My step sister had the cosatto hogarth for all 3 of hers and now her brothers ds is in it so i know its a solid piece of furniture! I just bought dd ivory furniture with oak glazed tops and handles- I love that look but need to buy long term furniture and thought it was too girly for the boys and would buy them chest of drawers etc a teenager wouldn't whinge about

Did I say I'm growing baby elephants?! Both a little over the 50th centile, femur length bit more again on normal singleton charts. Ones at 660g, one at 659g. If we believe a growth scan at all, which is to be queried!! But well over a kg of baby in there already, no wonder I'm so big!!

Thanks wants, I do actually have The Baby Whisperer knocking around somewhere, I'll dig it out and have a read when she has a nap. I abandonned it altogether when I felt worse after reading it when she was a few weeks old and thinking god! I can't get her doing that!! (I never did manage anything too similar either!!!)

She woke at 1 and 6 last night, but did get back to sleep much better, so was a lot better night thanks. Fingers crossed she's getting better. I am going to fix the sleep thing!!!!

scream, glad you're feeling more positive. I am too at least until bedtime . Amazing what a bit of sleep can do!

I'm still on the end of a screaming banshee flying down the hall twice a night over here dream if it's any consolation to you! Dh has fled to the downstairs spare room!

I got the moses basket out yesterday and put it in my room explaining to dd that baby would sleep there when she arrived. Currently though 'Big Bear' is sleeping there wearing a baby bib...

oh dear pomme. I am very surprised at how loud and how long she can scream for. Never heard the like from her before the last week or so

Thats lovely that the basket's out- makes it so much more real! Hearing estimated weights yesterday, and seeing them, and buying them beds and thinking about their room has made it more real for me too!

oh the internet is a dnagerous place.... amazon usually have stuff permanently on offer don't they?! Speaking of mattresses in holiday cottages got me googling cotbed mattresses.... Of course, my children will all always be sleeping on a pocket sprung mattress , and I love the Kit for Kids one DD has, and it's on offer on amazon in cotbed size for less than I paid for DD's cot one!!! (though you pay more as most people do't bother buying a pocket sprung cot mattress, so very, very few companies do them...!)

I did mattresses too the other day dream! I got Mamas and Papas one exactly the same as dd had as will be same moses/cot furniture.

My parents are astounded at the idea of a brand new mattress for each child. Apparently db and I both slept on a second hand mattress! Things have changed a lot re child rearing from our childhood - I do feel for mums/MILS sometimes.

Mattresses are the thing I have left to do too - DS had a decent ish one from
Mothercare in the cot so will get the same again I guess. Crib wise you never get much choice for some reason and we'll need a new'un for the bugaboo.

I have to say DS always had the best mattress I could get apart from now and he has a cheapish mattress on his single bed as recommended by the man in JL until he's dry at night. I mean he only takes up half of it so we turn it frequently, and he'll have a new decent one once he's dry at night. It feels rough though if I lie on it .

lol, me too pomme! I slept on a second hand cot mattress. Which my dsis then went onto. I would have put the next baby in DD's cot on her mattress as it is one where you can zip off the outer cover and wash it at 60 degrees, plus she always has a mattress protector on it anyway- hers is the Kit For Kids pocket sprung ventiflow and I'm so pleased with it- you can't tell its ever been slept on and she's been on it over a year, so I'm happy with the pocket-sprung-ness (inventing my own words ). Plus it has a non-PVC waterproof layer the other side to te ventiflow one she's on, so it can be turned over so when the boys are potty training you can have them on that side to protect it from their weeing... Good job we got cot beds- DH measured their room dimensions (they're going into the biggest room that not ours- I vaguely considered letting them have ours, but a double in their room would mean we couldn't even have a bedside table!!! so we're not swapping!!) and we can barely fit 2 cotbeds, one changer and the small tatty chest of drawers DD is upgrading from in... mamas and papas furniture is good stuff- DD's cot is third hand now and it looks immaculate, still really sturdy.

I wish kit for kids did this mattress in single bed size- so perfect for potty training without making 'em sweat!! maybe they do...but i doubt it. A wise move I'm sure biscuits, no point having a posh mattress ruined, and won't be many months before he's dry at night. What size is a crib? kit for kids do travel cot etc size, and saplings do some unusual sizes...

Dream - the crib we have is sort of bigger than a Moses basket - this is the one we have. We never had a Moses basket as I had heard too many stories of babies growing out of Moses baskets within sort of 6 weeks or so, and was worried with DH being so tall! So we used the pram downstairs and the crib upstairs, and it lasted DS the 6 mths he slept in our room.

And you're right, I don't think it'll be long before DS is dry at night - in the last month or so he's only had 2 or 3 wet nappies in the morning. If even that much.

I'm reading all this mattress talk with great interest! I've had a bad back for so long that I know the ins and outs of good mattresses, but I've been really unsure how far to take it for a little baby. I'm so glad some of you have invested in decent pocket sprung mattresses as well, I think it's going to be a hard sell to get my DH to shell out twice as much for a pocket sprung vs a standard foam cot mattress. Personally I think a good mattress shouldn't just be used when there's already a problem though, it should be used as a preventative measure to help ensure your child doesn't develop a bad back in the first place! [slightly paranoid emoticon]

Also, pre-cotbed, I'm hoping to get one of the bedside co-sleeper cots in lieu of a moses basket. I love the idea of being able to reach the LO without getting out of bed. I just can't get my head around the fact that these can only be used for a few months but they cost the same as a full-size cot!

Can I throw another baby stuff question into the mix? Bottles and pumps - any recommendations from the Mums in here? Over Xmas along with all the general baby advice that was pushed in my direction the bits that interested me were recommendations for Dr Brown bottles (which I've never heard of before) and Medula breast pumps. I was just wondering what your thoughts are on these? I would hope to be expressing milk approx once a day (so DH can take one of the night feeds) and obviously everyone wants to minimise the chances of colic. Any suggestions?

By the way Dream I hadn't realised that one side of the 3 bears cot would have to stay cot-high when you convert to the junior bed. I'm fussy about that kind of thing too! Will have to look for pictures online. Congrats on the baby elephants by the way! Seriously though, those sound like really healthy weights, and it's great that they're so close in weight too. Glad everything is going well.

Oooh yes I meant to say good new on the scan front there Dream - it's incredible that they can actually estimate their weight already isn't it! But great news that they're both doing so well and both such a good size. Does the weight of the babies make any difference in the CS v VB debate?