The 'We are brooking no arguments whatsoever for an uneventful pregnancy and pain-free birth' thread

[Biscuitsandtea]

Ladies, our previous thread was getting full so here is a lovely new shiny home for us all.

I've put some comfy cushions around and plenty of pregnancy safe snacks and drinks. The Segway park is in the corner over there next to the stack of glittery vom buckets (plenty of extra buckets too for all the newbies).

In the corner over here you'll find our library of leaflets including sections on early pregnancy private scan clinics, pushchairs and car seats.

Hope you all like it very much :)

For what its worth Meconium I wasn't being anti MW or anything like that! In fact I don't think anyone was being anti mw led care. Apologies if that is how it came across. I think I did try to say that normally m/ws do the sewing up and all the normal sort of care. I was just saying that in my case we did need the specialist care - we did need the specialist who could get out a baby that was super glued in and then repair the subsequent damage.

I am entirely glad that most people don't need care like that. But it is why I think the mw led units that are attached to a hospital offer the best of both worlds as they give the majority of people a better birth experience but have the means to deal with the small percentage where something does go wrong.

I have nothing but respect for everyone we dealt with during the birth of DS - the mw we had in the room with us was great and got the specialists in at just the right time.

musical - glad you are being seen to and fingers crossed everything is OK

Ooooo Jen you've told your boss! Big step! Are you close to your boss? How did they take it?

I really can't decide whether to tell my "coach" (the partner responsible for helping me with my career development) as soon as I get back to the office next week, or after the 12 week scan, or not until she guesses! My firm is generally really good about people going on maternity leave, and if everything does go horribly wrong before 12 weeks I'd probably want to ask for some time off to deal with it anyway. So I'm leaning towards telling her next week. However I keep reading all this stuff online about evil bosses reacting negatively to pg news, and I worry that if I tell her earlier than necessary I might find the firm does start treating me differently.

Has anyone else told their boss the news (either this time round or in a previous pg) and if so did they change the way they treated you at all?

Hello everyone! Ooh newbies! And a new oldie nice to meet you Hawthers.

Music we are brooking no arguement that you and bean are fine!

Meconium so glad to see your post in support of MWs, my town has a MLU that keeps being; open for births, closed for births, No overnight stays, 24hr stays... There is a real struggle to get it open and staying that way, thanks to NHS cuts. I stayed for three days after having DD and it was vital for my breastfeeding and well being as a new mum. This time I will be lucky if it is open and I can stay for even a day!

I had a horrible labour at the big hospital and most of it was due to idiot registrar and others (not MWS) poking around when they shouldn't. It is only since having my labour debrief a month ago, that I feel confident labouring again, and the reason I feel better is that my labour was badly handled and I really shouldn't have to go through it again.

Oops a bit ranty

I can't remember what else I needed to comment on... Stupid pg brain.

Has anyone built a new tunnel to the antenatal thread? And did know one think to bring all the pom poms we pinched from the TTC thread from the old thread?

On another note I have found noodles to be a heartburn cure....

but scream midwives deal with all pregnancies, not just the low risk ones and have experience of a million scenarios, and having such a good working knowledge of what is normal means they can identify abnormal very quickly. They are the people who identify complications, by the nature of looking after everyone. I don't agree that you would get better care in a normal pregnancy from an obstetrician than a midwife or that they would identify problems more quickly/readily, textbook or not. In fact a midwife would see more non textbook presentations of abnormality than an obstetrician as they see all women in pregnancy and are the main people to identify a issue. Bear in mine that unless you have a health condition which may affect pregnancy, nearly all first timers are midwife led care, thus all the complications they experience are identified by midwives.

Def need delivery suite for an epidural though, but you will be cared for by a midwife so the care will be the same, just you need a medical environmant because epidural increases chances of instrumental delivery/Cs/slow progress/malposition etc, although chances are you will have a perfectly straight forward non brooking birth! Plus its just really important to be wherever you feel safest in labour, and if that's in a consultant unit with all that it entails at your disposal then that is the place to be.

I dont mean to be confrontational, just think that midwifery is being completely underestimated, there is so much more to it than normal pregnancies.

jaggy loving a bit of Ina. Have met her once, its my claim to fame :)

Musical I really hope everything's good with you and that you're brooking no arguments about it! I'm looking forward to having our babies at about the same time, so here's to the next 8 months being really boring!

Can we not make this thread about doctors v midwives please? There are plenty of places on MN to have that debate. I'm a doctor but I am not anti-MLC (I had a home birth much to the surprise of many of my colleagues), but there is a real and important role for medicalisation and doctors in childbirth in the right place and at the right time.

Yes totally agree Bartlett, place and time.

Seconded Bartlet

I told my bosses quite early as do v stressful job with potentially long hours and needed them to be mindful of caseload while I was so tired and sick. They have been brilliant... Buuuuuuuuuut..... I normally do a lot of marketing as well as my actual fee earning role and today wasn't invited to a client do. I may be being totally paranoid but did wonder if they thought the travel would be too much for me (which it wouldn't - feeling much better at 14 weeks) or whether I am being written off for major client contact at the moment as they know I'll be off on maternity leave soon and perhaps wonder whether I'll come back? I may be totally over thinking it, though....

I don't think you're being confrontational at all Meconium! I love debates! Plus I always value hearing the other side of the argument.

I've become a lot more dubious of mw's following some very negative birth stories from my local hospitals. Within the last month alone I know of two women who went into a couple of my local hospitals in labour with perfectly healthy babies, and had tragic outcomes solely due to the appalling level of mw care. These mw's are allocated to far too many women at the same time, and as such none of them get adequate care. In one case (where the baby now has brain damage) the woman and her husband literally begged the mw to come back and check on her earlier but she said it was policy to only check a woman in labour every FOUR hours and not a minute sooner! Her baby nearly died! Even when mw's identify that there might be an issue I've heard numerous stories of them being unwilling to bring in a consultant until the last possible minute simply because they refuse to admit it's necessary to get a doctor in.

Now do I think this means all mw's are no good? Of course not!! The same as in any other profession there are good mw's and bad mw's. Right now I think even the good mw's are under unbearable pressure within the NHS due to the lack of mw's in busy hospitals.

Everyone I know who has ended up with complications identified in pg has been spotted by a consultant, and I would feel more comfortable under the care of a doctor - they are far more familiar with difficult cases and hopefully would know what to do (although of course there can be bad doctors as well as bad mw's!). So the long and the short of it is that medical care is a gamble! For me I've identified independent mw care and an epidural as the plan that gives me the most comfort. Naturally I'm aware that a lot of other women view interventions as a negative rather than a positive and prefer to try other options first - fair enough! Personally I'm hoping that everyone else in the hospital on the night I give birth DOESN'T want an epidural so I have no problems getting hold of the anesthetist!

Oops! Sorry Bartlet! I've only just seen your post! Happy to can it on the doc v mw front!

I'm still curious about the Great Boss Reveal though. Has anyone else told their boss yet? What have the reactions been? Jen?

I have, Scream - see my post from a few minutes ago, we must have x posted.

Love that's exactly the kind of thing I'm worried about at work! There's a potential project coming up soon which would involve spending about 3 months working from a client site (my client) and I really really want this! The three months would perfectly coincide with my second trimester, so I really think I could handle it - plus it's my contact and I've put a lot of leg work into making this project happen! I'm worried if I tell them now they might send someone else out to the client. Grrrr. On the other hand if they sign me up to the project and find out a couple of weeks later that I'm pg they might be pretty mad....

X-posted again Love! Clearly I type way too slow!!

How soon is soon, Scream? If just a few weeks, maybe don't tell yet? I might be being totally paranoid re client thing today - it's not as if everyone goes to everything, IYKWIM, but it's an event I've always attended in previous years... Hmmm.

Oooh meconium, how exciting. I got the book on a whim to kind of be as well informed and confident as possible, if that makes sense. She sounds very nice, a couple of bits of the book were a wee bit extreme/ott but I think it's just a reaction to the US system, which is way more medicalised than here.

I needed a CS to get DS out so I would have been nowhere without doctors/surgeons/anaesthetists to look after me. Although I am still randomly at the consultant who did her internals a bit too vigorously and came across as not really giving a monkeys! I guess she was maybe just having a bad shift so i'll try not to hold it against her. Still makes me feel a bit funny to remember it!:)

When I had DS, I told my boss straight away because I was doing studies involving radiation.

This time, I am only doing one morning a week of clinical stuff, so won't tell anyone until I develop hyperemesis if this time is like last time.

The decision should be in the next few weeks Love and I think I'll follow your advice. I think it might be a bit naive of me to expect the firm to be totally pc and not change the way they work with me at all. I'll keep quiet until at least 12 weeks I think, and hopefully I'll know about the project by then.

I'm glad your company has been supportive in other ways though!! I know people say pg isn't an illness, and it isn't, but it's a HUGE change and it's nice to have support through any big change!

Bartlet there will be no hypermesis this time around, we are NOT having it!! I do really feel for you though, my sickness isn't anywhere near that level and already I'm finding it so difficult. Still, your No Brooking has got you this far and it'll look after you all the way to the finish line!

hello all

I can't stop puking tonight. I've tried Brooking No Argument. I've got a sore throat, furry teeth and i'm hungry... DH has gone to subway for me, what a hero. it's all i fancy. again.

I wanted to add my tuppence worth on the m/w consultant debate but am restraining myself and quite proud of it.

I told my boss at 6 weeks to get time out of my day for m/w appointment the next week, but that's what we're allowed, I'm an NHS employee. All mat appointments from work time, not your annual leave. Including if you wanted to take the piss and do an aqua natal swimming class or something like that!! Which I think is a bit ridiculous, and i timed my appointments to miss as little as poss- not that everyone does that. She was supportive through gritted teeth.

bartlet, i agree, no hyperemesis for you, i can't imagine coping with that with a child too. I shall Brook No Argument for you, more effectively than i am doing for myself!!

Well I guess that it may have been my comment to dream that sparked the midwife/consultant discussion. But I certainly wasn't being anti-midwife led care generally. I was delighted with the way I was cared for duing my first pregnancy and birth by my midwives and just as delighted with the care from the consultants who undoubtedly saved my baby's life during the actual birth when they were needed.

I stated I was pleased for dream due to her own circumstances with her previous birth. Not because I have the opinion that one is better than the other. Just that in light of her individual circumstances it must be for the best. As with my own individual circumstances. That's why I'm pleased.

My comment to Scream regarding it's worth asking, was because she said it was something she wanted. Again, not because I think one is superior to the other.

Not sure why I feel why I should justify my comments, they were just comments in context with individuals needs and requirements not flying the flag for one way or the other generally. We're very lucky to have both and while there is both, different people will have different preferences for themselves.

Anyway, I can see you've moved on from it now. But I just came back on and was surprised that it had become heated so wanted to clarify my earlier posts.

and jaggy, i found the internals agony and panicked at how i'd cope with the pain of the birth! I still think the internals were worse, no joy at the end of them!!

I think everyone is legally entitled to time off for ante natal appointments, dream, no one should be asked to take it out of annual leave.

scarlet, i totally agree with you, I wanted to be MWL first time, had complications with my induction and birth, was blooming glad i was in hospital and had a good obs guy (actually, I had 6. 6 consultant shifts. thats how long i was there! one was the night one on for the second time. with v dubious reputation so was always pleased when her shift ended!!). Also met 8 midwives in my labour. most phenomenal, a couple i didn't like and would actively try to avoid again. if poss.

and scarlet i'm sure you're just a bit bruised. everything will be fine. You'll just do a John Wayne temporarily