We are all jolly well going to have a perfectly uneventful pregnancy and pain free birth and will brook no argument at all

[HidingInTheUndergrowth]

In a moment bravery here is the anti-natal thread for all those continuing to Brook No Argument into pregnancy and beyond.

So raise your fists to the sky and sing loud for there is no turning back now! We shall all stand firm and prevail with joy in our hearts as all our pregnancies will be simply blooming perfect!

Hurrah! and more Hurrah! :o

R.e vits I had to stop the pregnacare as it was giving me painful indigestion and constipation, I just take folic acid now and it is much better.

Dream- DD was about one when she had one nap of 2hrs, she still has a 1hr nap sometimes longer depending on her condition at 2yrs.

Jaggy, DD is only two months older than your DS then, I think planning ahead is essential for not brooking.

Scarlet I did use cloth wipes for a bit whilst on Maternity leave, it was cheaper but they were very cold in the morning and carrying a little pouch of shitty wipes did lose its appeal, I didn't mind the nappies. I love my cloth nappies. Truly. Saddo emoticon.

Also with Nappy bags, it just replaced my handbag fetish really as I didn't buy any other bags until recently.

Oh no Scarlet the yummy mummy types meet at NCT classes?! That's gutting! I only know one couple who live anywhere near us who have a baby, he's over a year old and his mum is back at work now. I was counting on the antenatal classes to help me meet nice Mums who live nearby to hang out with during maternity leave! If my whole class turns out to be yummy mummy / earth mother types I'm going to have literally NO friends who live nearby with young babies during maternity leave!!!

I'm so worried now. I was worried about making friends before but so many people have said the NCT classes are a good place to make friends I was counting on that to rescue me!

I hope you ladies will still be around to form a No Brooking postnatal club!

Pomme When looking at doubles, I fancied the city Select and I since haven't heard good things about the Donkey although may have sold my cameleon and Bee to fund one if I hadn't lost one mc as it was due on my Dds second birthday. I just love the colours of the Bugs, I haven't seen such nice colours anywhere.

scream don't get a Bebeconfort Loola . That was my hand-me-down and I'm grateful but hated it, as does my friend who had one too. Heavy, unwieldy, not that easy to fold/unfold and you certainly can't do it one-handed. I also can't get back to sleep- thats my main problem. I felt like i couldn't cope at all when DD was tiny as she never, ever went more than 2 hours without feeding at night. And I'd have to hold her upright for half an hour or she'd be sick and want more, and then I couldn't get to sleep- sometimes by her next waking, I was still awake. I tried napping in the day, loads of people looked after her to help me, but again, I'd lie there, knackered and awake for a couple of hours, then she'd want feeding again... However, I woke at her every squeak anyway and she's never taken a bottle... And it all improved at 9 weeks for us. She hated her moses basket, and when I put her in her own room in her own cot it was like magic. I got an 8 hour sleep out of her first time in her cot. I checked on her 3 times in case she'd died or something (as she clearly wasn't in our room any more) and was desperate to feed her, my boobs were so full and sore!!! Whatever you do it'll be ok. You'll cope. Once I accepted I couldn't nap in the day and stopped trying to, I actually felt better wierdly....

scarlet, I'm wishing I'd never complained as now I feel fine and i'm WORRIED. Oh please let this baby be ok.... Have you managed to calm down? Just found out DH has let slip at a no-children wedding (hence why i'm not there) that i'm pg and panicking at how many people I'll have to tell if I miscarry... Trying not to think 'when' I miscarry as I seem to be having a panic in general. Sigh. I wish I could be a bit more reasonable.

purple and jaggy, my friend has just had her second, when DS was 2.7 and she says its working really well for her. He's old enough to reason with, and say you'll have to wait a minute, mummy's just feeding your brother etc. I won't have that!! My already bossy DD will not be able to grasp that concept I doubt at 19 months. (crossing everything for this baby...). I don't think it's a massive gap purple, loads of people choose about that.

My step sister has a bugaboo bee and loves it!!! She is not a yummy mummy. She refues to go to any groups whatsoever and has never ever taken her 8 month old to one. I did like teh look of it when I was looking at strollers, but went for the far cheaper Baby Jogger City Mini and I love love love it!!!! check out the baby jogger scream, I've met people with others in their range who love them, and all the staff at the big baby shop I had to travel to to buy our (enormous, space-ship landed in my car) rear facing group 1 car seat apparently has a baby jogger of some description!!!

purple, I quite fancy the City Select as a double... Not sure whether to buy one until I know if i'll need it though. I imagine I will carry the baby on me in a sling as I did with DD and push her. Or she can walk, and baby in the single pushchair. The joys of a lightweight pushchair suitable from birth Or what is most likely is e-baying a City Mini Double, the double of my current City Mini which I adore.

scream, there can be the earth mother/ yummy mummy types at NCT but one of my friends met two really good friends at NCT. At a group somewhere, children's centre or otherwise you will meet a nice mum you get on with. I met one of the nicest mums ever, who i really like, while walking with DD, bundled up and asleep, in winter, up and down this bridge watching the firemen training in the river. I made some comment to her, also watching, like 'oh, i LOVE stalking the firemen...' She said, oh that's my husband (pointing). My gob-smacked response- oh well DONE! I ALWAYS wanted to marry a fireman . I see her regularly now... it was a good ice breaker

Evening ladies - just nipping in. I am a bit worried now though as I have a Bugaboo (which I luuurve) and I went to an NCT class.

However, I would say that my NCT class are all lovely and not earth mother types at all. They're all lovely lovely people and not at all averse to baby wipes :)

I think it must really be luck of the draw as to who you end up with but I never thought that I would meet such a lovely group of people. I certainly went hoping to meet some other mummy people to be on maternity leave with and there were 8 couples in our group and we have all kept in touch (and I mean properly kept in touch as in meet up really regularly etc). We did a lot of 'coffee and caking' while on maternity leave but not in a yummy mummy way - we certainly weren't accompanied by perfectly attired babies fast asleep - more trying to shovel cake in before they got too fidgety!

I hope you can forgive me - I can assure you though that I most definitely not in the yummy mummy category and hardly ever appear perfectly attired - even when I try!

Change bag wise I invested in a more expensive one but might go for a nice handbag sort this time - I agree that you use it loads so you might as well invest a bit - and like Jaggy the cheapo ones fell apart and just didn't work. Plus when you went anywhere there were blooming loads of the free ones so you were never sure which was yours!

Erm, in terms of naps, DS has been having just one nap since before he was 1 I think (he is 3 in a month). I am sure he was already on one nap a day (in the afternoon) when he started at nursery. He still has one nap a day most days now (but I think we are a bit lucky with his still having a nap of sometimes 2+ hours - I don't reckon that's the norm at this age. Some days he goes without though so am sure they'll fizzle out eventually.

Pregnacare wise I'm still taking them - never considered if they might make me poo a bit less often? I think they turn my wee yellow. And I take the fish oil thing too which means I can taste fish all morning - bleh :(

Have felt a bit queasy today which is good I guess but not enough to stop me from worrying. 12 week scan is 3 weeks yesterday but the next 2 weeks or so are the crucial time in my head as I had my m/c between weeks 10 and 11 (and am currently 9+3).

Dream - gonna miss you - really hope your sickness isn't so bad on holiday - try to rest up as much as poss.

Hope everyone else is OK - can't remember what else I wanted to say now (that must be the 1,000,000th thing I've forgotten today - proper case of baby brain!)

scream I'm not sure I'd describe any of the NCT ladies of this particular group as "yummy mummies" but most definitely Earth Mother types. I remember one in particular who would not let her DD come into contact with any material or product that was not natural. She was also toilet training her daughter as a newborn. So would hold her over the toilet at regular intervals believing that she would understand what she was supposed to do a long time before everyone else's child.

All very harmless and I know they all believed they were doing the best for their baby. I'm not knocking them for that. It was just the fact that they couldn't help make it obvious that they felt pity for anyone who did things differently to them. As if they had some sort of superior knowledge to those of us who weren't part of the group. I'm sure they can't all be like that, I do have friends who joined NCT elsewhere and didn't have that experience so don't worry. You'll know whether you like it or not after a couple of meetings.

FWIW I made loads of friends just through attending various baby singing/signing/swimming classes etc after DS was born. Some very good friends in fact. It takes a while to really find out who you've got in things in common with other than a DC of the same age, as they're all you talk about to start with. But it's all great fun.

Biscuits I'm worried now I've come across as an NCT basher! I'm really not. It's just unfortunate the the small group I came across were a bit barking IMO. I know you're not all like that.

dream I'm gonna miss you too Do you have to go?

Naps. DS had 2 naps until 14 months. He still naps after lunch now for and hour and a half and he is 2.8.

Bah. The nap thing is hard. She only ever sleeps for an hour, so it's when I get it in if I go down to one... I will try and keep her up in the mornings maybe... In my mind she still needs 2- with one she gets so tired she can't concentrate as well, like on books, and speed-reads them and moves on and doesn't settle to things well. But she seems determined not to sleep. Left her in cot for 40 min- nothing. Pushed her in pushchair for an hour- clearly tired but still awake. Doesn't know what's good for her!!

scarlet I'll miss you- we're pg buddies and old cycle buddies and both worriers!! I honestly feel totally fine now. Not even as tired as this morning. Been nauseaous and struggling with dinner last few nights, not managed to finish the meal, but looking forward to tucking into my spag bol now. Absolutely freaked out this is a Bad Sign...

In fact, i'll miss everyone. i feel a strange need to know what everyone's up to and how their pregnancy/ ttc efforts are coming along...

Ah Scarlet I don't think you're an NCT basher at all

I have heard of some weirdo things from NCT groups too - think I just struck gold with my bunch . I have heard that they can be militant about bf etc and I've heard complaints that the classes themselves have been anti c section or not told people about bottle feeding or whatever (due to being (reportedly) 'militant' about bf or natural birth etc). I should say however that these are just things you read in various places and I think it is a bit of an unfortunate stereotype of the NCT. Certainly our class asked us what we wanted to cover at the start and they tailor it in that way. If any if you are going this time I'd say have a really good think about what you want to cover before you go and don't be afraid to ask questions. You are paying after all.

I also know some of those people who (were NCTers and) won't let their children have anything not made of natural things etc etc. I agree too - as long as people are of the 'each to their own' camp I'm ok! I don't mind someone using only Egyptian organic natural cotton wool for their baby as long as they don't mind if I cop out with huggies!

Also, like some of the others I've met lots of lovely people too at various baby groups, swimming, singing etc.

Thanks for the pram recommendations/warnings! My friend with the 1 year old DS has a Stokke and she swears by it! I like the idea of having a taller pram, because I have a really weak back, but the Stokkes look a little awkward. For looks I just love the really old style traditional prams! I'm sure they're completely impractical though!

Biscuits it's good to see you! We'll all be No Brooking extra hard for you over the next couple of weeks!

I'm glad several of you have found friends through NCT or other classes - it gives me hope!

scream there is a tendency towards yummy mummyness which is infact a made up word with nct, however not all of them are. I think paid for classes attract more affluent people, and thus often a certain middle class 'yummy' set, plus not so 'yummy' people mixed in, you'll soon figure out who fit which description. Also, friends who have had babies have met really lovely friends at breastfeeding cafes etc so there are lots of ways to meet likeminded mummy buddies. My work colleagues are shooting babies out left right and centre so will be okay for baby buddies :)

My symptoms, as verified by dr google, are freezing coldness (i am sat in a fleece jumper jeans and a blanket around me, and my hall thermometer says its 20degrees. Was shivering yesterday evening with cold. Burping has settled a bit which is pleasant for all concerned haha. I also have no appetite for once in my life and am having to remind myself to eat lunch. This is the opposite of my normal desire to graze!

Read some research today about miscarriage and it suggests that, aside from basic stuff like not smoking/drinking, that women who eat chocolate every day and lots of fruit and veg are less likely to mc. Q me stockign up for my five a day and getting some green and blacks, because i figured i could just have two squares of that a day as it has more cocoa in it. Its probably a load of tosh, but im going to do anything possible particularly chocolate related things to keep my little apple pip happy in there :)

Oooh yes we looked at the stokke too - can't remember why we decided against it . I think at the end of the day my DH is v v tall an we wanted one with a big comfy carry cot part (we never had a Moses basket so wanted DS to be able to sleep in the pram during the day) and I think the bugaboo outdid the stokke there.

Also one I wish I'd looked at more (but I'd never heard of until after we'd got ours) was the iCandy. I think they look quite cool and would be awesome if you were having twins as can take two carry cots / two car seats etc. That's only based on seeing them out and about though...

Also ladies I feel I should apologise for being so absent this week - has been mentally busy which totally wiped me out so I've been either flat out busy or wiped out tired! Trying to get back on top of everything now.

Anyone fancy brownies?

Oh and DH has just reminded me that he didn't like the wheels as much on the stoke. It has hard wheels whereas bugaboo has more versatile wheels. I think we read somewhere that the stokke is awesome for 'round town' etc but we wanted something that did out and about too. If we were the beckhams we would perhaps have a range of prams for every situation

Biscuits thank you for the super helpful post, I must confess I now feel like a COMPLETE novice because I didn't quite understand half the advice!

Apologies for the dumb questions, but:

• Is there a type of Bugaboo that's taller than a Stokke then? The ones I've seen round here are all much lower to the ground than the Stokkes?
• Why are non-hard wheels more versatile than hard wheels? (And what exactly is there to be versatile about?! Don't they just roll?!! )
• What does "out and about" mean if it's different from "round town"?! Is "out and about" a sort of... well... I can't really think of what it could be apart from "round town"?!! Surely it's not mountain-climbing or anything extreme!?!

I'm sure every Mum on this thread is now shaking their head in disgust at my stupid questions. It looks as though the pram choice is even harder than I thought!!! I just wanted something vaguely cute that's not too heavy and not so low my back aches when I put the little one in! Now I'm worried about too-hard wheels and maximising the benefits of round town as compared to out and about!! ARGH!!!

I do hope you lovely ladies won't give up on me, please please teach me!!!

meconium I've been freezing, freezing cold too. I was also wearing a fleece, plus top, plus cuddling up to dh and still had chattering teeth yesterday.

I'm still in a flap tonight. I don't even think I'm so cold. I've eaten loads of chocolate. I text dh at his no-children wedding to say i'm freaking out. He's clearly sick of it and hasn't even replied. What is wrong with me??? Stressing out is certainly not going to help!!! Any words of wisdom scarlet? anyone?

scream, the 'off-road' type buggies, like the Phil and Teds explorer, baby Jogger City Elite, etc etc have air-filled wheels, like a bike, and better suspension so a smoother ride for your baby. However, you can get punctures. I have heard of some mums who have them slime-filled to prevent punctures??? And I have never found an off-road buggy that performs well off road. I don't have one, but have been for walks with friends that do- they can be a real pain. They are more versatile as they can handle more terrains.

Lightweight pushchairs, like my loved Baby Jogger City Mini have hard wheels, solid wheels. Less suspension and a less smooth ride. However my baby has been in a air-wheeled off road jobby and never went to sleep in it but sleeps fine in mine. First time she went in it too for both. We do a lot of walking in the country etc but for this I'd always carry her- in a rucksack or the ErgoBaby. Or babybjorn when littler. Can go over stiles etc with no problem. I take it over gravel and footpaths sometimes, it may not do as weel as a Phil and Teds or something but is pretty good.

I also have a friend who rates the iCandy.

Pushchairs are a nightmare. Push as many as you can. The most important thing is where you're going to use it, how often you want to put it in the car (some are a bitch to fold), how often you're going to use it. I didn't think it would be for me- i thought i'd need a versatile, air-tyred pushchair. I don't- i live in a village, in the country, yet the best for me is my super light city mini with the amazing one-hand fold!!!

the pram i want to get rid of is a mothercare my4. it's actually really good except for 2 small flaws.

the feckin tyres on the big wheels burst even on tiny thorns and the 'mudguard' type bits on the small front wheels get clogged with pine needles and leaves if you walk in the woods. it's great to push and i really liked not having to buy a separate carry cot. so if you never go near thorns or in woods I'd happily recommend it! DS seemed really comfy and slept in it loads when he was smaller.

have got my eye on a jané one with unburstable wheels...

on a totally unrelated topic, i think if you're going to mix feed, the advice is to get feeding established and your supply settled before starting the formula. my top tip would be to head straight for the feeding boards on here, everyone has been extremely helpful and supportive to me, from when DS was a few weeks old to weaning. we had a bit of a stressful start, as DS had a tongue tie so my milk took ages to come in. think he just cried for about a week!

Ooooo cold as a symptom? Now I'm worried because I'm the opposite! I keep getting these crazy hot flashes, even when I'm wearing a little string top and DH is wearing a jumper! I'm also burning up at night. I hope this doesn't mean there's a problem?! I have taken my temperature a couple of times just to double-triple check I don't have a raised temperature - and the reading has been perfectly normal.

This pg ride is even crazier than I imagined, and I've barely started!

Scream - not silly questions at all - entirely my fault for a poorly worded post (am watching House at the same time )

Firstly - don't be freaked out by not 'getting' prams etc. First time we went to look, we went into mothercare and after 5 mins just left again as we just didn't get it at all - no idea where to start!

Right, we have bugaboo chameleon - definitely lower then stokke, I didn't mean to imply bugaboo was higher, it just had a bigger carry cot I think (and we were anticipating a biiiig baby based on DH!)

Wheels - bugaboo has 2 bigger wheels which are better for 'off road' stuff. We were expecting to do a bit of walking in the country etc. Not mountaineering or anything but we were thinking of sort of gravel or woodland type paths if you see what I mean. Smaller wheels great for nice smooth surfaces as I understand it.

Forgotten your other questions - back in a mo....

Might have covered everything - hope that helps a bit - sorry first post was confusing

Oh and bugaboo has big wheels like the air filled ones but they're solid so can't get punctures.

I agree with Dream think if you intend to carry in slings etc. Go somewhere you can practice putting them up and down. Think about fitting it in the boot of the car and lifting it and folding it if you've a weak back.

Oh and on the hot and cold thing, I've had both, sometimes within a few hours of each other

Dream Biscuits and Jaggy you are all stars! Thank you for your patience, I understand much better now! Stupidly it had never really crossed my mind that there might be different types of tyres for pushing on pavements vs pushing "off-road". Yet now it seems SO OBVIOUS that this would be the case

Thanks for the tips, that's certainly a lot to think about. I would need mine to fold down quite easily into the car, because we visit DH's relatives a lot and they all live a million miles away - our car has a massive butt though (a pain to park!) so I'm not really worried about a pram not fitting in. The one-handed fold thing sounds useful though!

The only "off-road" I might be doing is on the common, but the vast vast majority of time I'll be on pavement. To be honest I am NOT a fan of walks myself whereas DH's family all live in the country and LOVE walks, so it might be helpful to have a pavement-only pram to get me out of having to go on walks with them all!!

I will definitely be running any potential pram choices past you ladies before buying anything! I will also be taking on board the advice to try out as many as possible before committing to anything! It's all quite far down the line for me at this point anyway, I can't imagine buying anything until well after my 20 week scan, and actually probably not until I start maternity leave!!

i live in a village too dream!

we have a big framed backpack that we still use quite often, DS has always loved being on Daddy's back. (I've not used it enough to get the hang of it)

if i do see someone on the beach with a wee excited looking baby attached to her finger, I'm not sure how I'd actually explain to DH that I'd met you on 'that bloody website'. i was giggling to myself earlier at the thought of the DH's going

scream once you get used to milk in/poo out most of the rest of it seems to work out ok. another important talent is ignoring annoying comments on topics like how long baby 'should' sleep\feed\cry\be cuddled /whatever for!

We didn't start looking until after the 20 week scan. In fact we didn't do anything until after then.

Don't know what anyone else thought of pushchairs staff in mothercare but we found staff other places to be much more knowledgable. We got ours from a small independent store that were brilliant at showing you how they all worked etc.

When we asked about air filled wheels in mothercare the lady said 'it depends how much broken glass there is around where you live'....

Ermmm.... Right..... Thanks for your help but I don't live in the Bronx!!