August 2011 - yellow, pink or blue, which one are you?

[KTisPG]

I'm yellow

Hi there, I hope you ladies will help me out - can I please ask you all a question?

If you were attending a breastfeeding education session for pregnant mums and their partners, and you were asked "name one thing you know about breastfeeding and one thing you'd like to know" what would your answers be?

I'm a BFing peer supporter and I have an interview for a job as a breastfeeding support worker on Thursday. I have to give a presentation about what I would cover during an antenatal Bfing workshop and how I would deliver it. I was thinking of starting by asking everyone to introduce themselves and tell me one thing they know and one thing they'd like to know about BFing. Obviously I need to know what type of answers I'd likely receive!

And I thought who better to ask than the lovely pg mums on MN

Bebemoon My DC share a room (DD is 5 and DS 3) and have done since DS was about 10 months old or so (can't honestly remember). Sometimes they disturbe each other a little when they first go to bed (no longer than 15 -20 mins) but usually, even if one of them wakes in the night the other doesn't and they don't often get scared because they keep each other company. I found it much easier than I thought it would be to be honest.

neenz when I was a first timer, the problem was that I didn't know what I didn't know...! My question to you as the leader would be "what one top tip can you offer, and what's one myth about bf you can dispel". The one thing I didn't know first time around is you should expect to take 6 weeks to establish feeding. I had very unrealistic expectations, but no one had told me otherwise. HTH.

Re: rooms, our two have been sharing for two weeks now and the novelty has worn off, and they play together really nicely in the mornings so we get longer in bed!

We got white babygrows from Tesco, but found that people buy you clothes so from about day 2 our DCs were in gender specific stuff and the white hardly got worn, so I wouldn't worry about whole outfits. A few bits in newborn size (maybe the odd 0-3m incase you have a whopper ;) ) should be enough for starters. Def agree with whoever said about getting neutral vests/pjs/growbags in all sizes, in case you have another baby. I was so smug putting DS in DD's old white/cream vests at a year old! Mind you it means three bags in the loft for each size of clothes - pink, blue and white!

DH and I are still poles apart wrt names, he still hates my favourite boy's name, and has changed his mind as to which is his favourite They only thing we're agreed on is that we're not naming it straight away, especially not if its a boy which we rather think it is!

Re: homebirths, I can see all the arguments for it, but I just wouldn't relax. Not because of the mess, but the just-incase-something-went-wrong aspect, and also fretting about my other children and if I was getting in the way of my mum looking after them. I'd rather be in hospital focussing purely on the matter in hand, and go home a couple of hours later like I did last time.

neenz quite agree I didn't know what I didn't know, I did know it was good for the baby...
Things I wish I had known:

it can sometimes hurt/ cause pain during the first weeks even if doing it right (as your nipples harden and your milk production regulates itself) BUT if you do find ways to cope with the pain/discomfort it does get better and you will feed pain free (and easily) in the end

there is close relationship between you and the baby; you will produce enough milk to ful-fill it's needs (if you are puttin git on the breast everytime) and even tho you won't be able to measure the amount, they'll take what they need and you will replace it like a stream 'replaces' the water that gets drunk by the animals... i.e. don't panic abt quantities -if they're growing/are content then all is good!

neenz - being a complete clueless fool about bf (although I am desperate to be able to bf ours), my dumbass answers would be:

I know that 'breast is best' for my babies' development, preventing infections, bonding with them, helping me lose weight etc. One thing I would like to know is HOW DO I DO IT?!?! Tell me everything I need to know!!

I've read lots about bf, particularly feeding 2, so consider myself to be fairly well versed on the subject, but the reality is that I can't actually try it out until the babies arrive so I've no idea if I'll be able to actually do it or not.

While we're on the subject, did anyone watch that programme that some woman called 'Cherry' made about 'is breast best?'. Thought it was going to be rubbish but actually found it quite interesting, (and scary at the same time)

I'm staring down the barrel of another week signed off sick with nothing to do (well, LOADS to do, but physically incapable of doing any of it!). Fortunately the sun is shining so I may head into the garden and start pulling some weeds up and preparing the flowerbeds relax in the sun! Scan this afternoon though, FINGERS CROSSED!!

Hope all goes well this aft MrsS.

Re the BF Neenz I suppose the one thing I know is 'breast is best' and the things I would like to know is how do I know if my baby has had enough/getting enough. I know baby will probably stop sucking if s/he has had enough, but how do you know if they stop sucking cos they can't be bothered to suck any more??

Keeping everything crossed for you MrsS and Poddingtons.

KLou re knowing if your baby is getting enough - I found this leaflet really helpful and clear about what to look out for (TMI warning though ) www.nct.org.uk/info-centre/information/view-44

fingers Xd mrs S

oh and I hated that prog on beeb 3. v scaremongering with v little advice I found. breastfeeding support cafe's/groups exist all over-not neccessarily well advertised so well worth popping down sooner rather than later (like Emma on the prog eventually did)

I actually avoided that programme as stuff like that upsets me with its sensationalisation of breastfeeding and shocking advice. I've even had to stop reading the mainstream baby magazines (Practical Parenting, Mother & Baby) as the advice in them is very poor and it saddens me that this is the 'advice' out there for mothers.
Kellymom is the best advice you can get, along with peer supporters/lactation consultants after the birth.

Hope all goes well with you this arvo MrsStevo

Neenz As a first timer I do know that Breast is best but one question Ive always had is how long do you continue Breast feeding? Some of my colleagues did it for the first 3 and then alternated between breast and formula. Some did it for 6 months and then started alternating / expressing (as it was time to come back to work) and on of DH's mates wife did it for 1 whole year (even though she introduced other food and formula. So its confusing as there are no guidelines around this.

Hi all,

thanks for the birthday messages! Dd has quite the cold ATM so I didn't do much but enjoyed having her to myself all day!

MrsS hope all has gone well! Regarding the documentary it was massively biased towards portraying bfeeding as hard - most of my mates including myself found it easy! There is a lot of help round here if you need it though!

Neenz - I found the NCT breastfeeding class fabulous until the post natal realitiy of feeding actually occurred. We were told about all the benefits and the potential problems were skirted over in a 'you-dont-need-to-know-it wont-happen-to-you' way which was incredibly unhelpful. I had huge feeding problems in the first six weeks which were then only explained when DS was diagnosed with a breathing problem; every cafe & support group I attended in the first 6 weeks treated me llike a total failure for clearly not doing something properly; what the something was was left to me to sort out. Neverless, because DS had a problem, I felt it more important that he received breast milk for the first six months, so expressed. That again led to an interesting time at NCT 'tots and tinies' etc as only the bottle, not the contents are seen and the judging by others can make you feel awful using plastic rather than your breast!! I stopped going in the end and a group of us started an alternative coffee-meet in my local pub
I now feel very proud of myself for continuing to feed DS for that time and also managing to donate the spare to the milk bank (supply can exceed demand). By all means support the 'breast is best' campaign but please allow and explain that women can choose their own means of feeding, with respect and understanding. I will aim to breastfeed this time around but will not beat myself up in the way I did for DS and if that results in bottle & formula, so be it.
Phew!
re: clothes. I agree - buy the minimum neutral basics as it is more likely that people will buy colour-specific once the word is out.

This is my first, and I'm planning to BF but also bottle feed expressed milk as I want DH to be able to feed the baby sometimes once here, after a few weeks. I think it is totally up to you what you use, and that is awful sisterT that you were treated like that!

sisterT expressing for 6 months takes dedication, kudos to you!!!

KLou cool re wanting to breastfeed-are you looking at getting the Breastflow bottle as it works like a nipple (instead of sucking action on normal bottles) to avoid nipple confusion?

Anu i BF DS til he was two. (mainly at night) you can do it for however long you want to, or however long they need it. Or as little as you wish. The reason i BF for so long was 1) he was allergic to formula/cows milk and still now at age 3 guzzles goats milk to his hearts content! and 2) because it became impossible to give up. He eventually self weaned when i quite simply ran out. I wish i had ended it earlier but i didnt, and it was only at night!

What i dislike about BF is that babies are able to use boobs as a dummy. Fall asleep on the breast. I was never very good at BF in public... so i used to express a lot as well. I never ever wanted to BF AT ALL when i was pg, but when he was here it was the right thing to do.

We never had nipple confusion. My DS was in SCBU and had a dummy and a bottle before trying the breast, but latched on straight away at 5 days old. We were lucky.

MrsS i think there are some twin threads, have you tried there? Fab news on your beans' progress btw :)

MrsS hope all continues to go well with your beebs this week :) sot that at the next scan you have even more wonderful news.

I bf Moo until 16m when she pretty much weaned herself (tho I very gently encouraged it by offering cup of milk before offering the breast at the end of the night).

Following anecdote is highly personal and is very unlikely to happen to anyone else (so don't let it scare you off bf please*):

I found it really difficult at first to nurse; it took us until 13 weeks to really be comfortable feeding (I had a lot of pain). Moo has a 'rosebud mouth' and my ahem breasts and nipples are quite large so until she got bigger there was a lot of pinching (thus blisters, pain, cracks etc) going on. I went to numerous consultants and they all couldn't really understand what/why I had troubles; in the end I stopped going to them as I realised that they weren't making a difference in the feedings. I found expressing enlarged my nipples making things worse with the pinching- so in the end I just 'got on with it.' I was miserable I will be completely honest.
I was intent on doing what I felt was best all round.

Moo's growth in the first 6 weeks was slow (in the 25th percentile) (but she was gaining weight so I tried not to worry -but worried loads all the same )
It got a little easier feeding after the growth spurt at abt 7 weeks
At 8 weeks she was in the 50th and the HV was pleased. (but we were still struggling with feeds honestly and I was really depressed abt it all)
I started saying to myself: I'll just do one more feed; and after that feed I said: just one more... just one more. It's good for her; so just one more...
However, after we got thru 12 weeks and had a major growth spurt it was SO easy (and cheap)! She jumped into the 98th percentile and I never worried again. She's stayed there ever since...

I really loved not having to bring extra stuff; never had to worry about clean bottles, hot water, forgetting formula etc. (which would have been things I really would have struggled with tbh). And could feed her whenever she needed it as long as I could sit down. Starbucks and the comfy chairs became a haunt of ours at feeding times .

*I've known lots of women who have not struggled in the least with bf and never really had pain. I've known some that just had cracked nipples. I've known only 1 who struggled as much as I did (and she was my sister -tho it was not because of big nipples, but because her's were inverted i.e. didn't pop out)

I was very 'strict' with dd abt not using the breast as a dummy (unless I needed her to -like on long flights, after jabs, because of sickness) -in part because I needed her off as much as possible with the pain I was in- if she was just comfort sucking I popped her off and covered up. If she fell asleep I took her off and let her sleep. When she woke again, if she was hungry crying, I fed her. SIL thought I was being mean, but I wanted to make it clear to Moo that my breasts were for a specific purpose and she had a 'job to do' when she was on them i.e.We'd not have any 'messing around' when it was time to eat.

Wow that was mammoth bebe lol :) Interesting though

Daisy I bought the Tommee Tippee ones, but sent them back as a friend of mine did a lot of judging for the product of the year awards (baby stuff) and she got loads of freebies including the anti colic MAM self sterilising bottles. Meant to be the best ones for combining breast/bottle so going to have a go with them. She got me 2 boxes!! Also got me loads of pacifiers (blue and pink) and a widgey pillow!
Been quite lucky as a childhood friend of mine's brother works for Kimberly Clark and a huge box of huggies goodies turned up on Friday!! (Although planning to use washables, but won't say no to a freebie :) )

KLou lol i should've chosen my friends better ;) I have got a bag full of maternity pads and breastpads from someone who obviously bulk bought, but that's it on the freebies!!

wow, thanks for all that info bebe I can't imagine a worse scenario than that and yet you carried on! thats very encouraging! I di think it's important to be aware of how difficult it can be at first - i know people who hadn't given it a seconds thought and gave up when it didn't come naturally / easily. I'm trying not to get myself all worked up about it but I am very aware that it might be very painful / difficult and to be prepared to carry on trying. thanks for sharing your experience.

DH felt the baby move for the first time last night (during Eastenders of all times!) I'm 21+2 now and feel like i've doubled in size in the past week! People still think my bump is teeny though.

I got my confirmation for NCT last night too....£230! really?!!! I guess it is what it is but I hadn't expected it to be that much! She confirmed that there are already 5 other couples on the course so I'm hoping I can make some friends locally.

Hi all, checking in after long week away with family. Sorry didn't ask v early q's - non identical twins and already have DD so all pink house! We only had one name on our list for a girl first time round but loads of boy names so now a real struggle!!!

Congrats to those with good news, good luck to those with far too much stress, I really feel for you. MrsS, keep up whatever it is you're doing as you're clearly doing a great job helping those little ones to keep going.

So ladies, what footwear is everyone finding comfortable in this up and down weather? Adding to the furry tummy (and elsewhere comments) I am in the same boat, also sciatica, really heavy low tummy and ... swollen feet! Any ideas on the last one? Given up trying to sleep at night - toss, turn, toss, turn, etc etc.

Annie I feel like you - am well aware it could take 4-6 weeks of pain, but determinted to do at least that in the hope that it will all fall into place. Funny you mention EEnders, my LO was kicking while it was on too! My DH said it was "in protest" lol

Mornings just bought myself a pair of black sketchers yesterday that are like ballet type shoes, but all the comfort of trainers. Cos they are black they are smart enough to wear with work clothes too.
I've also not been sleeping well, sometimes too hot, sometimes sore pelvis (pillow between legs has helped with that, but annoying when it falls out the bed!!!).

I had my DD in Aug 2003 in the middle of the heatwave. the thing I really remember about breastfeeding her was being so shocked at how much she fed. I felt like I was constantly feeding. I did not have this with my boys who are autumn and winter babies so if itt is hot this summer prepare for thirsty babies! mind you it could be coincidence as they were both bigger than her so perhaps she took longer to feed. as others have said once through the first few weeks it becomes s o much easier.

Neenz I'm a third timer but just want to share a couple of things that would have helped me first time round. Again, like bebe first timers please don't be put off, I think I had a hard time of it first time but know many people who didn't!

• Firstly, that is is normal to have pain for maybe the first 10ish seconds of a feed (toe-curling pain if I remember correctly!) for the first few weeks but then it will be painless and easy. My mum was the only person who told me that and was a little when they said at the bf classes at the hosp that it didn't. Talking to other mums since I've had children it seems that this is pretty common.

• Secondly, that nipple shields are not the work of the devil! They seem to be disliked by bf advisors in my experience and I think they should be more balanced in their advice - shields can make it possible to carry on feeding through a tricky time (e.g. cracked nipples) and they have never reduced my supply of milk so that is not always going to happen. I used them for 3 months with DS1 and for 6 weeks with DS2 until feeding was comfortable enough, then continued to feed both until they were 9mo. Had I not been able to use them I seriously doubt if I could have continued. I had quite flat nipples and I think this may have contributed to some of the issues I faced.

• I think that 'nipple-teat confusion' is over-hyped by bf advisors and funnily enough a group of us were chatting about what a big deal was made if it at our bf classes just the other day. In reality, some babies do not seem to care where their food is from (like my DS1 who I could leave with a bottle of expressed milk or formula if I needed to) and others who will refuse a bottle completely even when you've tried loads of different ones and only leave expressed milk (like my DS2!). I think the difference between my two was that DS1 had a traumatic birth and was too bruised and tired to feed properly, got quite jaundiced and the paediatrician ordered that he be fed top ups of formula to get fluids through him. As a result he got used to bottle and breast within days of his birth and once he was better was exclusively breastfed but would take a bottle of expressed/formula on the odd occasion I left him. He wasn't confused at all. DS2 had a nicer entrance into the world and fed absolutely fine from day 1 but when the time came that I needed to give leave him and it coincided with a feed he would not take a bottle (or cup) of anything from anyone. Quite stressful and it took over a month to resolve when he was 7 months old and almost time to go back to work. I plan on introducing a daily bottle for DC3 in the early weeks to hopefully avoid the situation we ended up in with DS2. Fingers crossed!

• One of the best things about my antenatal breastfeeding classes was chance to spend a hour or so with other pregnant women (and no men so you did actually mingle more and chat more openly). SOme of them are some of my closest friends now, and we only met 4 years ago at these classes. Most of us who experienced problems establishing bf agree that 6 weeks was a 'magic milestone' where it all just fell into place and become easy. None of us had any problems (except the odd bout of mastitis) second time round.

Good luck with your course, sorry if I seem a bit 'ranty' but having been through a tough time feeding DS1 I encountered some pretty poor advice and if it wasn't for my own sheer bloodymindedness I would have given up after just a few weeks! I can see why many do.

I agree with Littlemisslozza that nipple confusion is often hyped and that many babies aren't affected by it, however I think it really depents on how set you are on breastfeeding.

With my first (DD) I just assumed that if you wanted to breastfeed you did and if you didn't you didn't. I wasn't expecting it to be easy but I was utterly unprepared to not be able to do it, which is what happened. DD had a fairly tough birth and was a bit battered and bruised so wasn't really interested in feeding for the first couple of days. I was advised to give her formula top ups on her first day when she had not really bf properly.

She was a big baby (9lb7) and I wish I'd have known about nipple confusion because I followed the advice and that was the beginning of my problems. Even though I did manage to get her back to exclusively breastfeeding over the course of a couple of weeks, her weight dropped dramatically and I was advised to start topping up again. Because of the top ups, my milk supply was affected. I got really cracked nipples to the point where I couldn't feed at all on one side so was expressing after every feed whild DH topped DD up with formula. We fed her every 2 hours for 16 weeks and I felt an absolute failure. Eventully DD completely rejected the breast and screamed blue murder everytime I tried to feed her and I cannot tell you what a personal rejection that felt like. Even typing this now is making my cry. I couldn't let it go and it affected my whole maternity leave. Nipple confusion was only part of the problem, but it was the one that stopped us in the end.

With DS, I was determined to give it another go, but not to beat myself up about it if I couldn't do it. Fortunately he had a much easier birth and took to it like a duck to water. My nipples were tender but no where near as bad as with DD and I knew where to get help. I tried him on a bottle at 5 weeks when BF was fully established but he wouldn't take one at all. I tried every different type of bottle and teat, warm, cold, fomula and EBM, me, DH etc etc. I even tried starting him off on the breast and "sneeking" the bottle in - he spat it out. He was EBF until 6 months and didn't take a bottle until 10 months. My babies are obviously one trick ponies - once they decide what they are having, nothing else will do.

Topping up also had a hugh effect on my milk supply. With DD I could only express 4oz in total from both sides, expressing after every 2-hourly feed. With DS, once my milk was established, I could express 8oz on one side in one feed! I had so much I donated it to the milk-bank in our local special care unit.

Sorry for the epic post, but I wanted to share my story because all the advice we are offered is, after all only advice, and only we can determine what is most important to us. So long as the baby is fed when needed and thrives, it is no-one else's business how or what they are fed. But the advice is there for a reason and your baby might be the one that they are talking about, even though everyone else's doesn't seem to mind.

It's interesting to get some first hand experienced mums opinions and points of view. I've not been to any classes yet, it's one of the things the MW wants to go through Thursday, but will be keeping all of what you've said in mind.
My mum has been very honest with me and said you will feel a failure if bubba doesn't take, but you're not, it just takes time, and it is different for everyone :)