Mumsnetters do really really well but ……

[retiredlady]

I have tried several times to write down what I am thinking about how we, the Mumsnet readers, support people in their darkest hours. I still don?t think I have sorted out in my own mind exactly what it is that is niggling away at me but I do know that I have spent many hours reading different threads and the sadness of some of them and the compassion and good sense offered have made me cry more than once.

But I still don?t think we are quite getting it right.

To me there doesn?t always seem to be the link that I would have expected to see between the urgency of the cry for help and the number of postings in the thread. Sometimes the balance seems wrong so for example (using a made-up crisis here for obvious reasons) ?two little girls living next door were drowned in a local lake? although most unpleasant for the OP is not nearly as urgent as ?my two little girls were drowned in a local lake?.

One change I would make would be to have Bereavement as one of the chat topics that comes up automatically rather than hiding it away under the more ? sign. Perhaps swap PRS option with Bereavement??

I have also made a paper list of the threads where I think urgent support could make a real difference, perhaps even a life-or-death difference, and if I don?t see anything being posted for perhaps 24 hours I will show the OP that they are not forgotten by posting something myself. Other readers might care to do the same?

eeek ! had not seen that

that's really horrible and patronising

sure it's not intentional though

Retiredlady, did you post another thread about not being able to cope with not knowing the outcome to sad posts and how reading sad threads had shaken your faith in god? (Sorry if I am paraphrasing).

I only ask because I feel you may be investing too much in MN and your/its power to help. If you are getting so personally involved that you are making lists of sad posts that you "need" to respond to, then perhaps it's time to take a break - at least from those areas?

I think this is very patronising.

Sort of "there there" pat on the head "now run off and play while I make it all tidier round here"

I had fabulous support here when my Gran died. But its not all about giving support for Bereavement. I was also well supported on MN while I went through a very hard pregnancy a few years ago, and have had some amazing support for dealing with a temporary disability which my dd2 has.

Not everyone feels qualified to support in Bereavement. Like another poster, I never/rarely post on miscarriage. Not cos I don't know what its like, I do, I've had 3, but because I was actually able to deal with them in a fairly robust manner myself and don't want to undermine people or come over as unsympathetic!

I also find your suggestion that the Philosophy/Religion/Spirituality topic is somehow "less" important than Bereavement a bit . Where do you think loads of people get their support from?

I suggest that you hang around MN a little more and actually read what is going on, before you come up with any more suggestions of how we should all behave.

I also find your OP offensive ad patronising

I am not qualified (emotionally or experienced) to support people in their darkest hours, and it's not why i come to MN, i can offer support in many other areas (geeky stuff, lone parents, weight loss) but i have no experience of bereavement, however it doesn't mean i am uncaring and unsympathetic, i can offer my deepest sympathies but that is the extent of it, i dont come to MN to play martyr and resent being made to feel like i should be offering more support in this topic

OMG - I have just realised WHY I am so so bothered by the OP

The OP is indulging in Competitive Sadding

It seems as if what I hoped my posting meant and how it has been read by others is not the same. My fault that even the third draft did not express my views properly.

I was not a teacher by the way - NHS sister was the highpoint of my career and that was years ago. BUT there are remarkably few organisations or societies that do not benefit from at least considering the way they operate. It is not just blind chance that external consultants get called into look at ways of improving things. Long serving members of a group or long serving/senior staff in an organisation are not the only or indeed the best source of ideas. Getting rid of mixed wards, increased visiting hours and allocating hospital visitors on a non random basis all started as external ideas having been initially rejected by the NHS.

It looks as if my ideas have little or no support which is fine by me. Perhaps everything really is OK and even the most minor changes are not needed. Somehow I doubt it though.

That's bang on BoysAreLikeDogs!

This is neither an organisation nor a society retiredlady - it is an internet forum.

And the NHS has done fantastically well from introducing consultants hasn't it? The patient records IT system is a shining example.....

This isn't an 'organisation or society' though. It is an internet chat forum. Very different. It is not the Samaritans or anything like it. It is a parenting website. On that parenting website some extremely sad things happen and the members of this site try and support each other as friends. As a shoulder to cry on as it were. As a sounding board. Very few of us are qualified to professionally help in any way. Which is why you will very often see people suggesting that the person posting contacts the Samaritans or another organisation that IS qualified to help.

But MN doesn't need an 'external consultant' or to look at the way posters operate.

MN is its posters. It works the way they make it work.

You seem to have mainly made posts about how to 'improve' things. Why should your ideas have support? You aren't really part of what goes on here - that comes with, well, participation.

I think you are wrong.

I also think that removing one mouse-click in the path of opening up the 'bereavement' topic is rather ridiculous would have no effect at all. If people wish to go to the topic they can do so perfectly easily now. If they do not, they will not.

maybe MN is not the forum for you

the majority of posters responding to you are long established MN posters who like MN just fine the way it is

we don't need rescuing or saving or changing radically

MN works brilliantly

are you actually reading the posts on here?

there is a massive amount of on and off line support for MNers and a lot of MNers do not come here for bereavement support but for all the other amazing thing MN offers

But lots of people who have been bereaved seem to be saying that MN is working for them, and surely thats how is should be?
i really dont think you can or should ompare MN to a hospital the two are poles apart

Also to point out the obvious considering the amount of posts in reply to you on this thread it proves that the bereavement topic is hardly hidden.

But MN is not an 'organisation' like the NHS nor are its members its 'staff'.

IMO there are discussions about the way MN is started by posters. I also tend to find that these make only slight differences. MN seems to change only through the profile of posters that it has and through these posters, if they want to 'change' MN, either voicing thier opinions more forcefully or leaving. It seems to me that this is fine. We don't have 'directives'. We are individuals.

Personally speaking, I have posted on the bereavement threads and unfortunately I probably will again soon. I have had some useful support, some of which comes simply from the act of writing the post.

I have also started bereavement threads which have had few replies. This is also fine and has shown me the limits of MN and encouraged me to communicate more in RL. Also a help in its way.

Retiredlady, I have resisted from responding to your OP as I felt I had nothing of consequence to say - other than what had already been said by so many other (more articulate) posters.

However, I have changed my mind . There are posters on here who have responded to you, stating that they have found MN to be a huge source of comfort to them when they have most needed it. That they have found your both the sentitments and language of your posts offensive and patronising. Yet you choose to ignore it by saying, "Perhaps everything really is OK and even the most minor changes are not needed. Somehow I doubt it though.".

You are likening yourself to an "external consultant". Pre children, my career was as an "external consultant" for the largest services company in the world. I would only engage on customer projects when the customer requested it (and paid for it). We would never just go to a company and start stating ways in which we think they would benefit from changing without actually engaging with them first. We would discuss what their business problem was, and what their business drivers were. Then we would set about finding the best solutions. Never, ever would we suggest a fix to a problem before we knew whether or not there was a problem to fix.

Imo, that would just be rude and presumptuous.

Don't think Chat would be at all appropriate. One of the reasons SN was taken off the active board was that people were too quick to jump in before realising that there was often more in the background than it seemed, maybe this is the case for Bereavement too. I suspect that many posters who come to that topic aren't new to the site so may leave a trail elsewhere so that those who feel able to contribute do. If you have the time you are always welcome to bump threads which may need attention but you also need to realise that not a 24/7 helpline just a internet forum which can offer verbal support and suggestions of where to obtain help in RL.

I;ve done some external consultancy for the NHs and no=-onelistend to me eitehr

Competitive sadding is a great way to put it. I responded to the other thread and had a niggle that it seemed strange that someone should come on here and deliberately search through all the "sad" threads. What is your motivation for doing so? Do you want to "sort us all out" with the benefits of your age, wisdom and experience? I'm sure you have a lot to offer but I don't think this is really the right place. You obviously want to help.

RL -
you've ignored the political (small p) element of this and every interweb forum.

To make change it is not sufficient to want things to change, you have to have enough support to make that change.

Listen to some of the people on this thread, have a look at how they operate on the entire site, and see their different approaches to gaining support.

For the most part on bereavement threads a
"so sorry for your loss " and then moving on is the norm, unless the poster has some real life experience to offer the OP advice from.

This is the internet, it is fickle.