Feeling strange

[Clarinet60]

This is a message for Moomin, really. I'm having trouble finding someone to talk to about a bizarre thing that is happening to me (well, I think it's bizarre anyway). My dad died when I was 4. I spoke to my mum on Christmas day and at the end of the call, she casually mentioned that my dad had been on TV in October on a program about Melson Mandela (he was involved in anti-apardheid demos), and the camera had settled on his face for quite a long time during footage of a march, in close-up. Given her quite a shock. She's in the process of getting a tape of it from ITV.

My issues are three-fold. I feel very strange about seeing him when we eventually get the tape, as it will be like seeing a ghost.
My mum never talks about him unless I bring the subject up and even then, she only answers direct questions, so you have to know the right questions to ask. (But you'd have to know what you were talking about then, in which case, why would you be asking, ARGHHH!) So I only have a child's memory of him, which includes smell, what foods he liked and what it felt like to ride on his shoulders. I don't know anything about the man, not even what his views were (aside from politics) what sort of music he liked, what they argued about, etc....
I'm not getting anywhere when I try to talk to friends. I think your dad being on TV when he's been dead for over 30 years is a big thing. They just seem to say, 'oh.' I understand that it can be hard to know what to say to bereaved people, it's just that the fact that nobody cares is very hard to take. I think that's the worst part about bereavement - nobody cares, everyone who knew them has gone. You are only allowed to talk about it for so long and NO LONGER.

Sorry, longer than I intended. I just wondered whether any of this resonates, or am I just barking?

Resonates completely Droile. My mum died when I was 2 - will post more later - can't really think about this at work as I am already welling up.

Definitely resonates with me. Although I was 24 when my dad died so knew more about him, I still feel uncomfortable telling any of my family that I think about him every day because I just don't think that they do. You're not barking at all, I would feel exactly the same way as you do.

That's really comforting, both, thanks.

Droile, why won't your mum talk about him? It seems very sad that she hasn't been able to keep his memory alive for you.

My FIL was a bus driver, who died when my DH was 27, and my MIL came across a local video which included just a tiny (but recognisable) snatch of him driving his bus (commentary, "a well-known local bus driver"!!!) - our kids were thrilled to see it but I think it made DH feel a bit odd too.

Droile, you are not 'barking'. My father died last year and I am 33 and I have a lot of memories of him and yet we have home videos that completely haunt me. Just hearing a piece of his favourite music unexpectedly whilst out shopping can overwhelm me and have me crying through the ailes! To suddenly see a moving image of someone you have not seen since you were four must be an incredible experience.

My parents split a few years ago and my mother does not talk about my father unless asked directly and I find this very difficult as although we had 32 years together there is just so much I want to know and wish I'd asked (but he was only in his fifties and of course death still seemed a long way off). So I think I relate to this refusal to talk about him that you are experiencing.

You must have so many questions and I do understand the feeling of 'no one cares' and people seem to expect one to simply move on from it. Have you no other family members, Aunts/Uncles etc that you might be able to talk to?

To be honest as it is your mother who is obtaining the tape (and therefore obviously cares)is there no way that you could simply force the issue. You may not want to upset her but you do need to know.

I have tried, over the years, but she just doesn't seem able to do it. She seems to expect me to know already, for some reason. Later events blurred the issue. I'll have to get tech to delete this thread in due course because I'll be recognisable, but I went to live with my grandparents about a year after his death, so there have been more recent bereavements for us both since. She remarried - that may be another reason. There are issues between us because of the separation. She won't discuss that much either. It's a bit of an unexploded bomb, really, and she's quite an explosive personality. She would obtain the tape because she has status as the only one left (she doesn't include me in this much) who knew him. The rest of his family were in Nigeria and she broke contact with them shortly after his death. So I'm stuffed, really. The Biafran war messed things up as far as tracing people goes, as did the series of tyrannical regimes Nigeria has suffered.

There is also another strange thing which may be peculiar to me. Even though he knew he was going to die for about a year, owing to the nature of his illness, he never wrote me a letter.
I have already written one to DS1, just in case, and I don't know if it will ever be needed. I just suspect that my dad and I must be poles apart as people, because it's one of the first things I would do.

Droile - thanks for posting. I don't really know where to start, so I hope you don't mind if I "rant" too - it's good being able to get things off your chest isn't it? My mum died in a road accident when I was 9 and I think, overall, my dad and I coped pretty well. My brother didn't (he was 7) and everything came out with him in his late teens when he had a breakdown and ended up seeing a bereavement counsellor. I feel guilty that I wasn't there for him but I thought I'd done my grieving by then and didn't really want to "rake" things up. Maybe this is how your mum has felt? I know my dad wanted to talk about my mum from time to time but I found it very difficult (when I was younger). This may also have to do with seeing him cry, which I found hard as a 9 year old and I didn't want it to happen again. I feel awful about this now and I have no end of respect for him now and what he did in bringing us both up. I thought until recently that I was fairly well-adjusted about it all.

Since becoming a mum myself though, I have physically missed the presence of my mum, and the closeness I have with dd (even though she's only 18m) reminds me so much of my own mum. I've got such lovely memories of snuggling with her in the mornings on her lap. She wore this one nightie that I can still very vividly remember the smell and texture of. If I ever saw or held this nightie I'm sure I'd go to pieces.

When dd was born I took our family photo album to my auntie's house. She was my dad's sister but she and my mum had been thick as thieves. My auntie went through the whole album and pointed out people and events I'd never known about before, with stories about my mum. I felt so much closer to my mum after that. I think, at 9, I was just getting to the stage when she was becoming a friend and I was getting to know her personality. Losing a parent at or before this stage robs you of the chance to get to know your parent as a "human being" and that's something you need to grieve for quite separately, I feel. That's maybe how you feel now, Droile, after seeing your dad not being a daddy, but a person - do you get what I mean? My auntie died suddenly this time last year and I felt the loss of her and then my mum all over again. Having a child yourself also shows you how much you missed out on by not having a parent there as well. It frightens me so much thinking about my dd going through what I did. That's why Cold Feet upset me so much!

Do post again. Talk some more - hope it helps you. I know it's helping me...

Droile,

I agree that although people expect you to grieve, there is almost this feeling of a time limit. My dad died 7 years ago & it still hurts.

My dad was involved in amateur dramatics. I tried to watch Fiddler on the Roof when it was on TV & had to turn it off after a few minutes because I couldn't take hearing my dad's lines. A while ago I was in the car & the radio started playing You'll Never Walk Alone. I had to stop the car (even though I was late for work) and just howl.

In a way it must be so much harder for you because you don't have proper memories of your dad. I agree with winnie that seeing an image of him as a real "person' (as opposed to "your dad" is also very strange.

Thinking of you.

once again, excuse the face. I'm obviously pressing something without realising- I didn't intend to put it there.

droile, I might soon go through something similar. A distant cousin has old tapes of my father larking around when he was a pilot in his 30's.She had had them converted to video tape and has promised to let me have a copy. For me, seeing my father will be really strange too. I wasn't born until he was 50 and for most of my childhood he had severe mental problems. Luckily I have good memories of him as an active father up until I reached the age of six or so. I have heard how vibrant and intelligent he was as a young man and I'd love to see something of this. He died a few years ago but, since he had problems communicating, in some ways I felt I never really knew him.

Thanks everyone for these nice posts. It certainly feels better to have got some of that off my chest. I think, Moomin, you may be right about my mum not wanting to rake it up again. Now that I come to think about it, I have never seen her cry, not even during sad films. I used to think that she was unfeeling or buttoned up, but now I see that there may be other reasons for not wanting to cry in front of your child.
I think you're right about needing to see my dad as a person, as that's what I've missed. I think Cold Feet and Coronation St (Maxine's death) has brought these factors home to many of us, and it's been quite cathartic.
I've decided to ask my mum for everything she has of his - letters, etc - so that I can photocopy them and see what that brings. For years I waited for her to give me everything, so to speak. Then I realised that she might be waiting to be asked, so I tried, unsuccessfully. At least this has taught me to take the lead when my boys get older, rather than waiting for them to ask me things.
Tigermoth, you'll have to let me know how you feel when you see these tapes.
Tallulah, your faces always make me laugh!

Droile - had to avoid this earlier as I still get amazingly upset whenever I think about my Mum. She was killed by a drunk driver when I was 2, so I have no memories of her at all. People expect that that means that I can't miss her, but nothing could be further from the truth. My Dad was exactly like your Mum - he would answer questions, but never offered any information. Until I was 18 I hadn't even ever seen a picture of her, and it wasn't until a couple of years ago that he took me to her grave. I think partly it was because he remarried when I was four, and it would have felt disloyal to my wonderful stepmum to discuss my mum. Even now I take down the one picture I have of my mum whenever my stepmum visits. I can't ask for anymore, because there isn't anything - my Mums family took it and then dissapeared from my life - I tried to trace them a while back but didn't really get anywhere.

I miss my mum all the time - especially since I had my dd. Although my stepmum is as good as a mum to me, it really upsets me that I don't have that genetic heritage. I want to be able to ask he things - I don't really want her back for good, just for a couple of days to find out what she was like, and how much of me is because of me and how much is because of her. I know that sounds wierd, but I stopped believing my life would have been wonderful if only she'd lived quite a while ago, and I'm happy with how things turned out for me. There's just a huge hole in my history.

the wierdest things can bring it back - doctors asking about my medical history, people saying I look like my stepmum, reading about the guiness family (her dad worked in the brewery and lived on Iveagh terrace, where she died). I cried for the whole night after watching the film Stepmom - but still went back to watch it again! I haven't watched this series of cold feet -don't think I could have coped with it though - just the trailers had me blubbing.

And I know what you mean about the letter - I was convinced I was dying during my c-section, and kept telling dh to make sure dd knew about me. I have already written letters to her to be opened on key dates, and I keep an admittedly irregular diary just because I want her to be able to know something of my personality if anything happens to me.

I've gone on - and I'm now sitting here crying my eyes out, and I know dh is going to notice soon and get all confused because he just doesn't understand -bless him. But you aren't barking - well unless I am too.

Gosh Prufrock, I really feel for you. It must have been awful to lose your mum at such a young age. I know what you mean about people thinking you can't miss her and how wrong they are. My DS2 is only 10 months, and although his memory would be insufficiently developed if anything happened, I know how much we mean to each other.
A friend of mine is a step-mum in a similar situation to the one you grew up in. The mother died when the children were 2 and 6. I worry for the children because they are not encouraged to talk about her at all and it breaks my heart to see history repeating itself. People say that children are resilient, but I sometimes think that this is just the way they/we appear on the surface. After a bereavement, children carry on behaving like children, and adults like adults. We sit drinking tea and they play with their toys. My dad told me he was going to die and I clearly remember continuing to bounce on the bed, as this was what I had been doing before he told me. (my mum corroborates this story) I remember thinking that if I just carried on playing, it would all return to normal and it wouldn't happen. Yet an adult looking on would think I simply hadn't understood. That's probably what he thought.
Thanks for posting I'm glad people understand.

Droile, I too think it's understandable that it will feel strange to see your father after all this time. There's some video footage of my dad somewhere (shot in the last 2 days of his life) and I still can't face watching it nearly 2 years later. I know it's not the same as your situation but no, you're not barking.

Moomin, your comment on the Cold Feet thread about your mother going out on a Sunday and never coming back has been echoing through my head all week. Prufrock your post made me cry too. From my limited experience I'd agree, there is no time limit on grief.

One of my greatest fears is that I will die while my kids are still young; I think Prufrock's message just brought home to me why it would seem so tragic.

Droile I forget to address your thing about the TV footage - I think the reasons that things like that hurt so much is that it reminds you of how little you do actually know. I remember when dh was talking to my Dad about going to school at Harrow, and dad said that that was where my mum had lived - her mum was a cleaner at the school. I was really upset for a while after that - every time you fit another piece into the jigsaw you realise anew just how many holes are left.

Can I just say that reading this thread has made me cry. I can't imagine what it must be like for those of you who lost a parent when you were young children. You've made me realise how lucky I am to have my mum around. I think you all sound incredibly brave.
LOL to you all.

From me too ... XX

And from me. Thank you all for sharing this so honestly and openly, it makes some things about dh and MIL (FIL died when dh was six and SIL three) easier for me to understand. In fact, I think I'll print this out for him to read. He finds it hard to talk about his dad and many of his memories are shaped by his mother's views on the matter.

Droile, I have just seen this thread and I'd like to say I know how you feel about people not seeming to care about the person who is gone.

My dad died in 1988. A few years later my Mum remarried (and don't get me wrong, I'm very happy for her). She took all the pictures of my father down and was going to throw them out, and won't mention him in front of my stepdad at all - it's like my dad is a taboo subject. I met my dh after my dad died, so he never knew him. There are things that still set me off - just typing this has brought tears - and I have no one who knew him to talk to about him. I find myself talking to my ds (who is 5) about his grandad who is dead quite a lot - he seems to want to know about my daddy.

The worst thing was that my mum and stepdad married on the exact anniversary of Dad's death - same date, even same day of the week. Mum had totally forgotten. I found it very hard to get through that day without spoiling things for them (but I did - I feel proud of myself for that). The only good thing was that at the reception I sat next to an old friend of the family who quite casually mentioned my dad several times - so I wasn't the only one there who remembered him. My mum and stepdad 'went away' at 6pm, which was the time my dad died (I was with him when he died) and I must admit that as soon as their car had gone I just howled.

It's hard behaving like a grownup sometimes!

Thanks for the good wishes, everyone.
A common thread regarding the silence of the surviving parent seems to be remarriage.
Prufrock, your 'holes in the jigsaw' comment really captures the feeling.
Azzie, that must have been devastating for you. I've always felt that my mum thinks it's none of my business. Your post gave me a brainwave, actually. I'm going to say that DS1 (3) has been asking about his grandad (which is true), so could she please give me every possible detail so that I can compile something for him.
I'll let you know how I get on, as she is coming to see us soon.

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My half bro and sis lost their mother at 10mths and 4yrs and they have virtually no memories of her. In fact, my poor sister was told that mummy was 'on holiday' for over six months after she had died. They did have two surviving aunts, though, who could talk about their mother. Do you have any relations from your father's family, Droile, to whom you could talk?

A friend was born after her father died and when she recently asked her mother about her father, her mother confessed that she didn't really remember all that much about him. They were togther less than three years, over 30 yrs ago, and she had remarried and had several more children in that time and her memories had just faded. Could your mother have the same problem?

BTW, no, you're not barking, not at all. I was very moved when I was in contact from someone from years ago and she told me she's always felt a special something for me because I'm one of the few people who knew her daughter, who died at five yrs of age, over 20 yrs ago. I really hadn't thought of it in that way until then.

Best wishes.