Skipping the crem

[Forestmumlondon]

Some advice needed please. My dad is suggesting we do church service and then straight to the wake. We are planning cremation but he doesn't want anyone actually going there because he says we're doing the service at the church and doesn't want to complicate things.

I know hardly anything about funerals. But I feel like it would be good for close family to go to the crem and then meet everyone later at the wake?

Am I crazy for digging my heals in about this? He can be quite manipulative and so far has tried, gaslighting - making me feel silly for thinking it's a big deal, guilt - apparently I'm going to ruin the day if I go on my own the crem (because he absolutely does not want to go), as well as trying to twist it many different ways.

I just can not imagine sending my mum off on her own to the crem while we all head off to a party?

We don't have the death certificate yet and he says we shouldn't arrange appointment at funeral directors until we do. I feel like it would be good to see a FD asap just to talk through options, but should we wait for the certificate?

No you are not going mad, tell him you're going to the crematorium. And anyone else who wishes to go should be able to. It's a perfectly normal and reasonable and sensible and fitting and decent thing to do! Say goodbye to your mum how you see fit. If you don't you will resent this, and you won't be wrong.

I was about to suggest this too, its worked well when I've been to funerals that way round.

OP, might this work?

Neither of you is wrong, OP, you just have different preferences. It is perfectly normal not to "accompany" the deceased to the crematorium - in fact, 20% of all UK funerals are like that, ie direct cremation (at which nobody is present).
Personally, I think the wishes of the spouse should generally take precedence, but you will have to find a way to come to some sort of agreement.

I think this is probably a big part of it.

For him the ashes don't mean anything (fair enough) and it's the service / celebration of her life that has the meaning.

But still.. on the day do you think we'd / others would feel bad about not going to the crem with her?

Really small close family so wouldn't be many of us at that part.

I don't really care either way of my dad comes, but he is saying he doesn't want me to go either. And I'm finding it hard to decide if I'm arguing against it just for the sake of it. Or whether wanting to go with her is a fair enough ask...

If you do plan on going to the crem just on your own not as part of the service, I'd advise either keeping one of the funeral cars to take you (& a friend) there and back to the wake, or have a friend take you. I know people are different but there's no way I was fit to drive the day of my Dad's funeral

Do you need to tell him if you follow her to the crematorium? I can totally see why he’s against the crematorium part for himself as it’s quite distressing and the coffins are often not cremated straight away. He may feel that if you do it, he would be obligated to do it as well, or he may feel he’s let her down etc? It’s all quite new and bound to be difficult for him, so if possible, I’d just do a direct cremation and follow the car. You can then go on to the wake and no need to say anything. I’d definitely try to avoid a falling out if possible. It’s a terrible time for both of you and I’m sure your mum would want you to be close.

That is good to know that it wouldn't be that unusual then if we go down that route..

For those who did cremation first... Does that mean there was no body / ashes at the church service?

For Dad, we did crem, then church, then wake. It was a very full-on day.

For Mum, we did church then wake, and she went to the crem without us. The vicar did not approve that no one went to the crem with the body. But I saw Mum's body in hospital, and it wasn't her any more, she had already left, and I knew the undertakers would fo her right. (Vicar and undertaker were both family friends- small town...) And we were with people who wanted to remember her and talk about her, and I wouldn't have missed that.

Fortunately, though, we all agreed, so it wasn't an issue. If we hadn't agreed, I'm not sure what we would have done.

It's a difficult time. I wish you all strength to get through it. Take care of yourselves.

I don't think he can tell you that you can't go to the crematorium, that's a personal thing IMO.

With FIL it was church then crem with just immediate family and then wake

The crem was the hardest bit

Perhaps you can leave it for now until you have the death certificate?
If DM was religious then her vicar/priest may be expecting to do church then crem anyway which might help sway your dad?

Sorry for your loss, its such a tough time

Yes, no body (there wouldn't be ashes at the service anyway). Actually it was much nicer without the coffin each time I've been to funerals like this. It felt more of a celebration of life, and there was none of the dread of the wait for the coffin to disappear.

For those who did cremation first... Does that mean there was no body / ashes at the church service?

It did for us; we did have the ashes back by the end of the day, when we had another small ceremony in the churchyard. When mum died, they no longer did a same-day service, so we did the churchyard bit a couple of weeks later.

My FIL died very recently. We are having a church service, not his wishes, but likely what he would have wanted. He will then be cremated, but we are not having another service at the crem. It is not for others to decide how a funeral should be carried out. My Mum wanted and received a crem service with just her immediate family ie her husband, children and grandchildren only, she had very few other relatives and did not wish friends and aquaintances to attend. Sorry for your loss OP, it is a difficult time.

We went with my Uncle to my Auntie's funeral, and he wanted to go to the crem. Auntie's wife didn't want to go and noone else was planning to go. We had to explain that we were still going and the vicar then did come too. Thankfully! Some poor friend of hers would have been on his own at the crem if we hadn't as he'd gone straight there.

For both my parents we did the crematorium for close family, then the church (many more people) and then a party at home with everyone welcome. We placed the flowers which had been on top of the coffin at the front of the church - and it was rather beautiful, but it’s very hard to know which way to do it, I think.

When I’ve been to funerals which have a church service and then a smaller service at the crematorium, by the time family get to the wake a lot of people have left. Especially if people are elderly or unwell themselves they may not want to be waiting a couple of hours for everyone else to arrive

4 recent family funerals here.

My sibling had a humanist service at woodland chapel/venue followed by family going to crem for a brief service and then we all joined the other mourners at a wake at his home where the caterers had been ready for everyone.

My parents both had services at the crem taken by the parish priest and then we all went on to the wake venue afterwards.

My mother in law's funeral was more complicated. She had moved to a nursing home near her daughter but wanted a funeral at the church she had been an active member of before moving. So she was transported 200 miles back to there. After the service, her sons and their families went to the crem for a brief service then joined everyone else inc daughter at the wake.

Although MIL's funeral arrangements were similar to those of my DB, geography was not our friend. MILs wake was just around the corner from the church but the crem was mikes away. Most of the older family members had gone home by the time we got back from the crem.

My colleague's mother's funeral was better thought through. There was a funeral at the church she attended followed by a wake. A few days later, close family attended a brief cremation service.

We did this for my Dad and it was a positive experience. There were 9 of us at the Crem so it was very personal. The church was a service of remembrance and celebration of life with a memorial portrait not a coffin. Then we all went to the wake together.

I personally would let my dad gently know that I want to accompany my mother to the crematorium. I went last year to a funeral that was had a religious church service, then family & close friend went to the crematorium for a short service. I think your dad needs to compromise with no service, but with your accompanying mum. I hope you can come to an agreement.

It sounds like he doesn't like the crem. Some people find them disturbing. Upsetting when the curtains shut or the other on when the coffin lowers into the table thing.

I've been at one where it was just some carefully choosen music to all people to have time with their own thoughts and memories of the deceased.

Speak with both the undertakers and the vicar.

It's not going to ruin the day. It's hardly the best day. You have to be happy with how you say goodbye to your dear mum too.

Yeh he doesn't like the crem. And I get that. I don't like it either. The waiting rooms, general vibe, the building, the location. The little curtain thing. The grounds are right next to a motorway.

Lots of think about it.

i would be making the appointment with the funeral directors now though, you don’t need to wait for the death certificate, you can at least go through the options with them. You do need to be aware that if your dad decides church service and unattended direct cremation it may not be immediately afterwards so you may not be able to follow the hearse for the final journey, depending on the timing of the church service. The crematorium will have specific times usually for direct cremations as opposed to full services or committals.
Many do have a committal just for close family and the vicar will come along for a 10 minute farewell. But as others have said depending on location this could mean by the time you get to the wake many have gone. If your dad agrees though you could have a committal on your own just to have some time in the chapel with your mum, you don’t need a vicar or anyone else. Pick a couple of pieces of music and you can have a very private committal.

At my mums funeral a few weeks ago she had a requiem mass ( Catholic) and then we went to the Crematorium,some just went back to the place we had refreshments, the Crematorium service was very quick and they left the curtains open so the coffin remained there untill everyone left ,they ushered everyone but immediate family out do we could have a last few minutes saying our good byes .

They didn't close the curtains or lower the coffin with my mum they did all that after everyone left.

For my aunt we had the church service and then family only went to the crem.
Crem is small. We then went to the tea dance she went to every week and I never knew that about her. Can I say had a lovely time and laughed and laughed as I fell over my feet. She would have loved that.

My main memory of her was drinking me and a cousin drinking Martini when we were about 13. She told us off, but when I mentioned this story to my mother years later she knew nothing about it.