Need to offload re. funeral

[wottawottawotta]

My mum died last Saturday night. She was 86 and had a brain tumour. She'd been in a nursing home for 2 months.

My Dad was devoted to her and looked after her spectacularly. However, he completely controlled every aspect of her life, and is still the same now she has died. He didn't keep me well-informed about her state of health, didn't give me enough notice to try and get to see her before she died, didn't accept my offers of help with anything when she was alive, and continues to shut me out now she's gone. I went to stay with him 2 days after she'd died, by which time he and my older sister (lives close by, also very controlling) had already ruled out many options regarding the funeral. I had gone up there expecting to have a conversation about the plans, and listen to everyone's thoughts but instead I was shouted down. My sister and I ended up having an argument, and my Dad slammed out of the room.

I have given in completely, of course, as he keeps reminding me that he's lost his wife of 69 years but nobody seems to acknowledge I've lost my Mum. He's making all the arrangements with consultation / help from his friends and neighbours, and not his daughters. I've bowed out gracefully but I absolutely hate the decisions he's making. It's not what Mum would have wanted. He seems to overlook the fact that she and I talked a lot, and I know things about her tastes and religious beliefs that he probably doesn't know. But my voice is not heard.

I'll suck it up. But it's so hard. I'm cross about it and focussing on the pitiful funeral rather than getting on with grieving for my Mum.

When my mother died I was very aware that she had been the one who wore the pants in their house. But I was also clear that my father had made his own choices in life and he stuck with her, in spite of the fact that this limited his life. It is impossible to really get inside anyone else's relationship; and if your mother had wanted to leave she would have told you or your sister so and I am sure you would have helped her to do that. She made her choices, however imperfect they might seem. I am struck by this statement: My Dad was devoted to her and looked after her spectacularly. I have been in this situation and I do not think I can say that I looked after my OH spectacularly - I did my best but found it too hard for me at times.

It is clear that you resent your father for his controlling ways and that your very sensible choice has been not to have a close relationship with him. But this is your anger and your feelings and you need to own them and find a way of dealing with them for you, so that you can find peace. Part of that might consist of arranging a memorial event for you mother - small or large, religious or not - and finding other ways to remember her that do not involve shouting between family members.

They had soldiered on together for many decades, however imperfect that relationship might have felt to you, and I think he should be allowed to arrange her funeral as he wishes. You and he are not going to see eye to eye on this, so I think you need to go with the flow, as it is an argument without resolution.

It is easy to feel that you are trying to fight your Mum's corner in a way that you could not do in life; but it is very important to remember that your mother was an adult with choices. She made hers, even though they do not make sense to you.

It is hard I know as you are trying to come to terms not only with her death, but also with what you see as her imperfect life with your father.

It would help to let some of this go - hanging on to anger about things we cannot change destroys us. Go to the funeral - say your own prayers quietly to yourself - and then organise a quiet celebration of her life that you feel is fitting.

My mum had a wicker coffin as she was buried in a natural woodland graveyard, so only sustainable and biodegradable material could be used. It was lovely and looked very nice with a spray of wild flowers. Perhaps you could be involved with flowers or some other aspect? Could you try to approach it in a different way, to tell them that it would mean a lot to you if they could incorporate X or Y?

My mum's guiding edict about her funeral, which we found left in her papers, was 'no fuss' and we followed that as best we could. We had 50ish people, it was a non-religious ceremony with no singing, just a couple of lovely pieces of music to listen to. It was right for her and for us too.

I think in some ways when you lose a parent who you've had a difficult relationship with, it can be harder than losing a parent who you were very close with. There will be such a mix of feelings about it all, but my advice, as someone a month or so further on from where you are, is to let some stuff go and focus on any small amendments you can make that would be true to your mum. And also, and this might be difficult to hear, but figure out if the problem is really the funeral plan or the fact it's what your dad wants.

@Mischance's post is brilliant and very insightful.

Coming back to this a week later, when it's less raw. Funeral is on Tuesday. I'm looking forward to getting it over and done with. I've bowed out gracefully and left Dad to it but even that hasn't gone smoothly. He moaned about me not helping to my lovely, sweet, gentle older brother who lives overseas (and isn't coming for the funeral) and my brother very tactfully suggested that I should check in on my Dad. So I gently replied back to my brother with my side of the story.

I'm putting together a photo tribute, as I'd offered to do that, and perhaps nobody else wants to. It'll run in the background on a screen during the funeral. I fully expect Dad to vet it though!

Dad send me a draft order of service. It's absolutely terrible. Awful font, loads of typos. What is really jarring though is that the photo of her on the front cover, and that on the back cover are both of Mum and Dad. We can't even have a photo of the poor woman on her own. It's like she only exists in her relationship with her husband. I think it's weird and inappropriate. But I'm not saying a word!

On a plus note, I'm managing not to have to stay in the house with Dad when i go up for the funeral. Various other relations are staying and I'm very happy to book myself a hotel. By coincidence, one of my oldest friends is also in the area for sad reasons - clearing and selling her parent's house - and is staying in a nice hotel nearby. So I've booked the same place and am looking forward to catching up for a drink and hugs in the bar.

Well done for taking a step back. I hope that your contributions to the day will be appreciated by everyone and that you have a good reunion with your friend.

I agree with Mischance's earlier comment.

I was in a similar situation and had to accept that DF had chosen to stay with DM.

I don't think you can appreciate this situation if your parents had a normal relationship.

DM may have lost her husband, but she had a life before knowing him and people do marry more than once. We lost our dad- you never get another one.

I had huge sympathy for mum, but she refused to allow anyone else to grieve, it was only about her. Even now, we are told off for failing to grieve the exact same way she does.

Worrywart I think you are speaking from your own experiences rather than understanding the OP's.

@WorryWorryWort you are so judgmental. You only know a snippet of what's going on here. Do you stalk these pages just to be condescending and judgmental about people going through a hard time. I think that's very sad. If I'd wanted a pasting, I'd have posted on AIBU, not on a board entitled 'Bereavement'. FYI, Dad isn't frail. He has my sister there all the time, my nephew and partner are staying for a week. They're all taking care of the practical things. Dad is supported by his friend who has organised the music. The vicar has been in touch. There are loads of other friends and neighbours. That's one of the reasons I'm keeping a distance - he doesn't need me. I'd be a spare part. I can't bear my sister. I have a load of shit going on at home anyway, so not rushing to find things to do or extra stress for myself. If he were genuinely alone and in need, I'd be there. Of course.

I've had a pleasant afternoon looking through photos, and have selected 100 of the best. I made sure I included Mum with friends (their friends of course, as she had none of her own). Quite a few of her with my sister, so I won't get too many recriminations from her. Very few of her with me so I can't be accused of bias.

I love my Dad. But he's a difficult person. A bit of space between us at this point is a good thing.

I hope things are staying calm for you, @wottawottawotta

Grief inflames so much. DM occasionally complains about things that didn't work out the way she wanted at DF's funeral. Apparently she 'should never have listened to anyone's advice as they were all wrong'. It seemed to me at the time she neither sought or gave any weight to anyone else's opinions, so I'm surprised she has anyone to blame!

This. There is nothing worse than losing a spouse. Your 24/7 person, your current life and your future is ripped away.

Let your Dad do it his way - it's the last thing he can do for the woman he has loved for so many years.

I made the decisions for DHs funeral, and my children understood that perfectly and supported me.

Condolences for your loss.💐

Was your Mum a Catholic?

Answered up thread

We all got through the day. Dad said that, afterwards, he had the best night's sleep he's had for months and said that he'd achieved some closure. So that's good. He says he feels empty and sad but there's light at the end of the tunnel. He had a 2 hour long bike ride, and made cottage pie for dinner. I feel desperately sad for him. He will be so lonely. But it is what it is.

He'd always told me how great their neighbours were and I saw this first hand at the funeral and afterwards back at the house. Not many family made it to the funeral (all elderly and live a long way away) but there were friends and neighbours. Possibly 25 people or so. Some came for the funeral but then had to go back to work, others didn't come to the funeral but popped in for tea / cake / beer after work. The sun shone and everyone sat in the garden. I thought they'd never leave, and was desperate to go and have a nap, but I was happy that Dad had company. The next door neighbours (a couple of in their 50s) are incredible and the chap has set up a whatsapp group with him, me, and my nephew entitled 'keeping an eye on x' which is very sweet. My sister lives nearby but has many issues of her own, and is probably not dealing very well with this, so I am hugely grateful to the neighbours for keeping an eye and I have peace of mind knowing that they will let me know if they think there is anything amiss.

My nephew and girlfriend were there for nearly a week beforehand and took care of the catering. They are lovely. The girlfriend is a lovely addition to the family and my Mum adored her, as does my Dad. She recently lost her Dad and she said some very perceptive things to me, casually and in passing, which indicated she could see the family dynamics and what I was going through and I am incredibly grateful for her words. She also sees what a stubborn and independent spirit my Dad is and that he's practically impossible to help. It's a relief to meet someone who understands without you having to explain too much.

I'm glad it went well in the end. Funerals are such strange events, and rarely have I been to any that felt like a fitting send off.

If it helps, I sit regularly where my Dad's ashes were buried, and find it a great comfort to just be able to talk to him. Say the things that I didn't feel I could say because of my sister. She hasn't been to the grave once, in spite of all the fuss and drama ... and it feels like he's "my Dad" again, if that makes sense.

Go easy on yourself for a while, you're bound to feel exhausted by all of this

I am so glad that your Dad feels more at peace now and has slept well. He did it his way and it was right for him, so that is a real positive.

Yes, Dad is more peaceful and that's good but it was a pretty awful send off. Certainly no comfort to me, except to know that we've got through it and Dad is ok. I've been fighting off a cold/cough virus and today am absolutely floored by it and have called in sick. I haven't slept well for weeks and am exhausted.

The funeral could have been so much nicer if we'd just been able to collaborate. Just the 3 of us - me, Dad and sister. Which was exactly what was on my mind when I arrived home 2 weeks ago, only to find they already had really fixed opinions.

The setting was awful. The piano was awful. The music was mostly awful - not what she would have wanted at all. I'd put in just one request - Mum's favourite hymn and I was really specific about the tune. The friend of Dad's who was playing the piano said (to Dad, not me) that I must be wrong and changed it to the other tune. That pissed me off. The vicar repeatedly got my Dad's name wrong and omitted from the prayers and eulogy the name of my parents' deceased child. They've always been very open about her and talked about her and I find it hard to believe that Dad wouldn't have mentioned her when prepping the service with the vicar. That was very sad as Mum firmly believed she would meet her daughter in heaven and I would like that to have been reflected. I wish we'd written the eulogy ourselves, and got the vicar to simply read it out. We could have brought into it so much warmth and humour. Instead, it was just a chronology of her life and it was just devoid of any character.

And the worst bit was just walking away from the coffin (having taken the flowers and photos off of it, including grappling with bits of string tying the photo on). That was so wrong, in my opinion. But I couldn't have taken on Dad and sister about that. I'd have gladly accompanied her right to the very end, but I was denied that. I'm not interested in the ashes. Dad will take those to Canada where my brother lives.

Dad tried to engage me in conversation about the funeral afterwards as he was clearly seeking affirmation that it was a good do. That it was the perfect send off. Well, it wasn't, and I couldn't lie. So I just made vague noises and changed the subject. I reaffirmed to him that it all went very smoothly - which is the best I could do.

There will be no grave or memorial stone, so no physical place to remember her.

I'm thinking ahead of what to do for myself. All Souls/ All Saints days are not so far away, and 1 November is my parent's wedding anniversary. So I shall seek out some good church services over those days, and attend with her in mind.

I will have to agree to disagree with people who say that the spouse should have all the say. My husband and I have been so aghast at all this, we've vowed to make our funeral plans very clear. I came home last night and the hymn book was out on the table as my DH had been choosing his hymns!

Saying 'oh I just want something simple' is really NOT helpful as different people have different interpretations of the word simple. Paying an extra £600 to have a coffin that looks simple, in order to be simple, is ridiculous. Mum would have been outraged.

Lots learned over these past couple of weeks.

OP, I haven't read all the posts, but you can contact your local priest & ask for a mass to be said for pretty much anybody, so if you ask for a mass for your mother, they will do that.

It is normal for you to give the priest a small amount of money as an offering, but if you have a very limited income they will usually do it anyway.

It would be a specific mass said by that priest (one of the regular masses they already say) & would be mentioned in their newsletter.

I get masses said for everyone when they pass, so I do it fairly frequently & also on special anniversaries, or for special intentions.
Every Catholic priest will find it a completely normal thing for you to request.

@Brokendaughter - thank you for your help. My issue is that, although a Catholic convert, I am not practising and do not attend my local Catholic church. I'm not sure I could pick and choose where I go? Offering payment is no problem - i'd be happy to do that. It would mean a lot to me to have one - I'm crying just thinking about it, which is a sign it's something that would mean a lot to me. There's a very nice Catholic church, apparently, near to where I work (ironically I work in an Anglican church ...) that my Catholic colleague talks about very fondly. I wonder if they would do it?

@CraftyGin - thank you for your post. I'm not bitter, just disappointed.

The funeral directors did indeed offer all sorts of options but my Dad made all the choices. He and my sister were very closed-minded about the church option, despite wanting a vicar. Ended up being a farce really. All the trappings of a church service but in a horrid room that looked like a cocktail bar. Perfectly nice Norman church across the road with all the usual trappings and a proper organ. Non church-goers make lots of assumptions about whether or not they'd be welcome in a church, and whether or not it'd be hypocritical, and I tried to make it clear to Dad and sister that the Church of England would welcome their business. I work in a church, for goodness sake. I know what I'm talking about.

I realise it's not unusual re. the coffin / crematorium but it didn't feel right to me. And I didn't get a say.

@Brokendaughter - I just checked the website of the church I was referring to and their mass intentions are booked up until December! But it shows that you don't have to be part of the regular congregation, I guess. You sign up online.

I'm wondering about other places in London now. It needs to be somewhere where I feel comfortable, and slightly anonymous.

You say there will be no gravestone or memorial to visit which I think would be hard, although it doesn't bother a lot of people. Did your mother have a favourite flower, perhaps you could plant one in your garden, or a rose for example with flowers of her favourite colour, or often you can find plants with the same name, that could be your own type of memorial?

@GetWhatYouWant - thank you for the idea! She liked forget me nots, and i used to send her photos if I ever spotted one in a park or garden. I could grow some in the garden - I'll commission my husband to do that as he has green fingers!

She made a lot of stuff, so there are lots of knitted blankets around my house, and various other bits and pieces. Jumpers. Embroidery. She is genuinely everywhere, so that's a comfort.

All Catholic churches do them, but I'd guess that in London the congregations might be so big they get booked up quickly.
You might want to consider having one said for what would have been your mothers next birthday, or some other date that has meaning for you if you feel it will bring you some comfort & it can't be soon.

They just mention the name in the regular service, so nobody will point to you or mention who asked for the mass to be dedicated in this way so you can sit at the back & nobody would know, or even not go & it would still happen.

If your friend is active in a local parish, I would ask her advice - she may be able to request one & it may get slotted in sooner if she is a known regular.

A mass can be offered for all sorts of things, even just to offer support for someone having a tough time without spelling out what they are, or for someone who is sick.

It really doesn’t matter that you are not a practising catholic. You can approach the priest at your local church to talk about this and I think this is what you should do.