Need to offload re. funeral

[wottawottawotta]

My mum died last Saturday night. She was 86 and had a brain tumour. She'd been in a nursing home for 2 months.

My Dad was devoted to her and looked after her spectacularly. However, he completely controlled every aspect of her life, and is still the same now she has died. He didn't keep me well-informed about her state of health, didn't give me enough notice to try and get to see her before she died, didn't accept my offers of help with anything when she was alive, and continues to shut me out now she's gone. I went to stay with him 2 days after she'd died, by which time he and my older sister (lives close by, also very controlling) had already ruled out many options regarding the funeral. I had gone up there expecting to have a conversation about the plans, and listen to everyone's thoughts but instead I was shouted down. My sister and I ended up having an argument, and my Dad slammed out of the room.

I have given in completely, of course, as he keeps reminding me that he's lost his wife of 69 years but nobody seems to acknowledge I've lost my Mum. He's making all the arrangements with consultation / help from his friends and neighbours, and not his daughters. I've bowed out gracefully but I absolutely hate the decisions he's making. It's not what Mum would have wanted. He seems to overlook the fact that she and I talked a lot, and I know things about her tastes and religious beliefs that he probably doesn't know. But my voice is not heard.

I'll suck it up. But it's so hard. I'm cross about it and focussing on the pitiful funeral rather than getting on with grieving for my Mum.

We all lose our parents at some point, it is the way it should happen. Getting to around your 50s before you lose a parent is good going and while extremely hard most people can get through it showing assume respect.

A elderly man in his 80s losing a life long partner in their 80s should be supported by his kids not have to put up with mature adult children trying to take over the last thing he can do for his wife and likely the last significant decisions he makes in his own life.

I understand the op is grieving terribly but telling an 80+ year old man she wants a catholic ceremony when neither of her parents are catholic is irrational behaviour that an elderly man should not have to endure at this time,

Sorry the facts are harsh op, but you really do need to look at what is reasonable.

Of course she should be involved and given a say but it only led to arguments when she tried. This is OP's dad, her mum's husband, making the decisions. It's well within his rights, even though it is unfair.

@wottawottawotta I'm so sorry you lost your mum. It's devastating. I think all you can do now is find a way to privately pay your own respects to your mum. At the end of the day, it's a couple of hours. You could go separately to the crem if you want to. You don't need to mention it. There's nothing 'nice' in any funeral tbh. Hopefully you can get a couple of mementos of your mum, and you have your memories of her.

Arguing over the funeral isn't going to get you anywhere unfortunately; just upset you more.

@WorryWorryWort "I understand the op is grieving terribly but telling an 80+ year old man she wants a catholic ceremony when neither of her parents are catholic is irrational behaviour that an elderly man should not have to endure at this time"

I don't think she wants a Catholic funeral ceremony - just for a mass to be said for her mum. If the OP finds it comforting, why wouldn't she?

@LadyZebra - I'm not bothered about the ashes but some people would be and i don't think my Dad should have assumed.

Re the coffin / crem - I thought about this (going with) but it would complicate things and I'd be unpopular.

But thank you for the suggestions !

@WorryWorryWort - I wasn't after a Catholic funeral for my Mum. She was nominally C of E and the C of E will conduct funerals for anyone, so it wouldn't have mattered that she didn't attend.

It's me who is Catholic and seeking some kind of religious solace

@JanglyBeads - its an awful halfway house. It's going to be a service with hymns and prayers, with a vicar. But not in church. I don't know what, if any, of a standard C of E funeral liturgy will be used. I asked the funeral director if we could speak to the vicar they use asap but they won't allow this until we've set a date, which we can't do until we have the death cert.

@mariiiaa - thank you. I was beginning to think I was highly unusual in feeling as I do!

@Lookingatthesunset - spot on, thank you.

I'd have more respect for Dad if he wanted a secular service. But he wants prayers and hymns and a vicar, just not in a church. Which is batshit.

You are really not unusual OP.

It's upto you how you tackle this, you need to think about your own mental health and the effect it all may have on future relationships within your family.

But you have every right to have a say in how her funeral goes. Not everyone will always get their preferences for every part of a funeral but those closest should all be involved in making choices and be considerate of others wishes too.

It is not uncommon at all to have services with a vicar in the funeral parlour. I have been to a few extended family funerals for older people like this.

Sorry for your loss. My step mum was vile about my mum being acknowledged in my Dad's eulogy, and cut that section out. I very nearly didn't go to the funeral. The only reason I did go was SM had all the family photos and I was scared if I crossed that line I would never be given them. So I gritted my teeth and got on with it. My Mum was furious with me for 'humiliating her', like these were my choices, I tried to explain to no avail. I headed to Cornwall and went totally off grid in a tent for two weeks to get away from all of them.

Often one of the worst things about a bereavement is the behaviour of others. I found a few little ways around it, like time on my own with Dad at The Chapel of Rest and slipping a photo of him with me and my sister into his suit pocket. You should do your own thing for your Mum, there can be Dad's funeral and your funeral, and yours will be better. Make a whole day of it and do some things she would have loved.

It stings a bit for a while, but the eulogy is now not an overwhelming part of my memories of the whole thing.

You can certainly expect the loss of your Mum to surface all the control issues as part of your grief, and you are wise to seek counseling. I didn't process my complicated relationship issues with my Dad, and carried on with a stiff upper lip. Had a breakdown 6 years later instead.

I am so sorry you are going through this, and hope you are able to navigate a way through x

I don't think it's that uncommon either - some elderly family members have had their funeral service conducted in the funeral home, even though they were church-goers.

My parents had church funerals, and we chose the music etc as a family. I can barely remember a thing about either of them tbh. Take care of yourself, and don't let it eat away at you x

I'm so sorry for your loss @wottawottawotta.

It has only been a week since you and your sister lost your mum, your dad lost his wife. Your heads are all over the place. Maybe when your dad sees the costs mount up, he'll realise it would be easier to have the funeral in church across the road.

Please speak to your parish priest about ways to mark your mother's life and death in church and how your family is doing your head in.

Strength to you at this time.

Focusing on the details of funeral planning is an excellent way to avoid dealing with your real feelings.

we all do this. It’s a normal part of losing someone close. We compartmentalize our grief and focus on something that is easier to be upset about or easier to obsess over. I’m not sure it’s even unhealthy. If you feel the full force of your grief all at once it is too much.

perhaps though, the funeral arrangements are really just a symbol of you frustrations with your father. When the day comes, don’t let those frustrations prevent you from the catharsis that a proper focused grieving at a funeral can offer.

Funerals are for the comfort of the bereaved. Your mum won’t know. Let it go. It will be like a weight has been lifted.

OP, I'm so sorry for your loss. As another poster said, I'm pretty sure that you can have a mass said for your mother even though she was not Catholic. My mother was Presbyterian, and when she died some Catholic friends had a mass said for her. This was in the US, but I think it is a pretty universal practice in the Catholic Church. I think it would be a lovely thing for you to do for your mother and for yourself.

This must be very difficult for you. The loss of a loving parent is on par with the loss of a spouse.

@HeddaGarbled - unfortunately it won't be comfort, I fear, because it's going to be naff and badly-organised. I don't even want to go. I had wanted to help organise it but Dad will be in control until the very end. Just as he was in her life.

Have you experienced spousal bereavement?

Appreciate that it isn't what you would have chosen. But disrespectful to call it naff. The funeral is for the grieving but if your dad doesn't want a church then some religious elements sounds like a compromise. A keyboard will be ideal and wicker coffin also nice. Nobody will think it is naff.

It is really hard that funeral is not what you would like but I think for your own sake accept what it is and pay your respects. Honouring your mum on your own in another way will hopefully help you.

Having read more of your posts, worra, it does sound like it might be more of a 'clash of wills', rather than simply a situration in which your dad is being horribly disrespectful of you. I still massively sympathise with you. A bereavement and funeral is a time of very heightened emotion in which all sorts of long-standing tensions are felt with particular severity, and I do understand how hurt this must make you feel.

Clearly you have very different ideas about what should happen at the funeral. But it does sound like your Catholicism (as much as your knowledge of your mother's preferences) might be a factor in your distaste for your dad's plans, and that your own plans might not necessarily be better - just different.

You mention your very strong organisational skills. Without meaning to 'take over', your desire to take on much of th organisation of the funeral might come across to your father as being similar to his own overly controlling tendencies? Although you have lost your mother, and the devastation of this isn't properly heard by him, I do think that at this stage of life it is more natural to regard the spouse as the person whose needs are most fully recognised in the funeral plans.

And you mention money a lot. I know how infuriating it is that funeral directors charge such staggering rates for such simple services, but that really is a separate issue. As far as possible I think it is best not to think about the money at all, since whatever type of funeral you have it will involve really ridiculous fees.

Please do attend the funral, and regard it as an event that is for your father's benefit. Then have an event that meets your needs - such as at your church.

Just re-read your bit about all the various bits of planning that you wanted to take on, including hiring singers to swell the congregation! That seems quite extreme for someone who expressed a wish for a simple funeral! And the unkind language you use about your dad's preferences - 'batshit', 'naff', 'Gilead and a lap-dancing club' - is also extreme.
Don't make this a battleground. You would probably never be able to heal the damage. It's only a special kind of family party, after all. Let it be your dad's party. As you say, he was devoted to your mum, atook good care of her. And you hadn't been close to her for a few years.

I wonder if a full-on Catholic mass is meeting the "simple" request from your mother.

I do not think it is a competition as to whose grief is the worst - partner or adult child. Both have their own sadnesses in this situation and both matter.

When my OH died I was clear about what was needed for his funeral from nearly 50 years of being his partner in life. None of my adult DDs questioned that. They helped and co-operated fully; and I incorporated some of their ideas into the service. They took on many of the practical tasks in making the arrangements, which I appreciated greatly. The idea that we might have had a full-on row at such a time is simply appalling - well, beyond appalling - heaven knows it was bad enough without that. I was devastated and the support of my DDs was critical in keeping me afloat.

You are allowed your grief; but I think you should act graciously over the funeral, and above all else avoid family conflict as I am sure this is very much not what your mother would have wanted.

Have your own ceremony in private with those you wish, but let things go ahead as your father wants for the actual funeral. I understand why you feel that what he has organised is inappropriate, but I think you must go along with this with a good grace. Funerals are for the living who are left behind and you must do what is right for you at some other moment; just as he must do what feels right to him. Please do not argue with him - you will only increase his pain and I am sure that is not what you want, nor your mother.

When someone dies, particularly a loved one with whom a relationship has been less than perfect, there is a whole sea of emotions churning around that make it hard to think straight. I hope that some of the advice on this thread will help you to navigate the funeral and the months ahead.

@gotthearse is SO right
Often one of the worst things about a bereavement is the behaviour of others

Serious illness or death just brings the madness and hugely irritating behaviour right out of the woodwork. It just does. They should teach us all this at school, because the first time you run into it, you don't know it's a THING and you're bewildered!

Yes, it's awful, and I really do get why you're so mad...but there is not a lot you can do about it so there is absolutely no point in dwelling on this. Concentrate on what you can do. Grit your teeth about the rest.

I don't doubt that your remaining family are somewhat flawed people, but now is not the time to be making any important decisions. Grieve your mother. Take time for yourself. And I hope venting on here has helped.

But he wants prayers and hymns and a vicar, just not in a church. Which is batshit.

It isn't batshit if your Mum was like me: believed in "her" God but didn't go to church and wouldn't want to be a hypocrite about it. A wicker coffin is lovely btw. The bottom line is that if she didn't leave specific requirements, then he is interpreting her wishes. You don't agree but this isn't top trumps or taste, it's trusting that he knew her well enough to know what she was happy with. And unless it was abusive coercive control - if your Mum was happy to let him take the lead while she was alive - I can't see how this would cause consternation in her death. I feel for you but your religious beliefs and how something should be done do not necessarily align with or override others.

OP this is difficult. My Dad arranged my Mum's funeral with me. I sat there and let him have what he wanted for her. All my life i'd known she was going to be buried - Catholic and important to her.
When I mentioned it, Dad said they'd discussed and she agreed to cremation. Not sure I believe it, and tbh, it still upsets me 6 years later, but i felt like my Dad had the priority here, not me, so I didn't challenge it. He was losing his life partner. 42 years married.

@Random789 Yes clash of wills for sure.

My Dad was devoted to my Mum but he was very very controlling and not an easy man to live with. It was a long marriage, by virtue of the fact they married at 17 and 19 (shotgun wedding) and have both managed to live to old age. It hasn't necessarily been a happy one. I know everyone has their ups and downs. Dad controlled everything Mum did. Always. She had no life of her own. Of course he sees it as a happy marriage because she let him do exactly what he wanted and supported him: followed him across the world several times, supported his career, stayed home while he pursued his hobbies, brought up the kids. She did nothing for herself ever.

I was with her the day she moved from hospital to nursing home. Her language was failing her because of the confusion / memory loss her brain tumour was causing her but she was still lucid. I was alone with her for less than one minute while Dad had a pee in the ensuite loo and she was desperately trying to offload onto me about how frustrated she was with him. We never finished that conversation. The subsequent times I visited, Dad was glued to her side, finishing her sentences for her. The last time, she was sedated and asleep in a chair.

She offloaded a lot onto me when I was growing up. She was so frustrated with him. She mentioned that she moved from one domineering person (her mother) to another (her husband) and had never known anything else. She was practically illiterate and left school at 14 with no qualifications. Dad teased her about not being able to spell and barely able to read. I realise now she was simply dyslexic but nobody thought to help her get over that. She was trapped her entire life. It's not to say it was an unhappy life, but it certainly wasn't a free one. She encouraged me to have a good education, be free, travel, have a job and friends, even though it took me away from her.

My goodness, my Dad even told the poor woman how to vote!

So him claiming that he knew her wishes is a bit rich, as I don't suppose - if she had any - he actually bloody listened.

It was a joke in our family about Dad: 'you can anything you want, as long as it's what I want'

And when he wasn't controlling her, my very needy older sister was.

So, yes, lots of complicated feelings about the family!

For those at the back:

I'm not suggesting a Catholic funeral. I had hoped for Mum to have perfunctory C of E only. No mass. Nothing to frighten the horses.

I'd like to take myself off to a Catholic Mass (the higher the better) a) as a complete contrast to the fiasco currently about to unfold b) because I am, nominally at least, a Catholic. That's for me to do on my own.

Unfortunately I'm not a practising member of the Parish. I sneak into Catholic cathedrals and sit at the back (having checked the music list first, as that's a big part for me). So nobody to talk to that I know. However, my lovely colleague is Catholic and practising and she might be able to help.