8week miscarriage isn't quite the same as delivering a full-term stillborn?

[Lira]

I'm really sorry for the upsetting nature of this post but i am heartbroken. Tomorrow is the third anniversary/birthday of my stillborn son who was born full term. I have phoned round my friends to ask if they are free to mark the occassion like we do every year. We go for lunch or something. We talk about him.

My friends have been quite evasive about it this year and finally one called this morning saying she thinks i should let it go. I can't keep letting this haunt me forever. She had a miscarriage at eight weeks a few years ago and i don't see her organising anniversary lunches etc. Her words.

I'm so sorry if this sounds cruel, but to me - yes, they are two horrible situations but not quite the same. Delivering a full term baby, and holding him, getting a photo of him etc is not on the same level as a eight week miscarriage. Just as i think someone losing a child - for example a baby to cot death - is again far worse than delivering a still born.

I understand that everyone has different emotional boundaries. So for some people, a miscarriage at 4 weeks could feel the same as someone losing a child to cot death.

Basically, i jusst feel quite embarrassed now and isolated. I want to celebrate Ethan's life no matter how short it was. But i've been made to feel it's insignificant. Am i being unreasonable thinking both of our children's deaths are terrible, but not quite on the same level?

Sorry, I didn't mean to shout "what"

WTAF more like.

After rereading Lira's OP I regret saying that the friend must be a dear one if she has so upset her. Maybe she was, but it seems that for whatever reason she's stopped being so because it was a shitty thing to say. I would have been devestated.

Yes I do agree Cailin

And I do think that the friend is out of order for what she said.

I think that too many people just don´t know how to be in such situations.

And of course should be lead by what the person who has lost the child wants to do.

I have never lost a baby, but i cannot see how the two compare. Giving birth to a baby and watching him or her die must be absolutely heartbreaking

Imo your friends sound very heartless and unconsiderate of your grief.
If you were my friend, i would be there for you no matter how many years have passed. My mum has lost a child, my brother and you never get over losing a child ever.
I don't understand the reasoning behind your friends wishes for you "to get over it" this was your baby they are talking about.
So you should remember him every year, im going to light a candle for your baby boy

Very well said, chipmonkey.

'Im my experience though there are many people who are very uncomfortable dealing with death and who do want the bereaved to "move on" because they find it all too uncomfortable. I don't think that is right, but it happens and we can't always change that attitude'

Then 'move on' yourself and find some different friends. Because tbh, I don't want to be friends with people who are so uncomfortable with what is an inevitability for us all that they can't put aside their discomfort to be a friend, because I would for them, most definitely. That's what it's about.

This is the second thread I have read today which talks about the right and wrong way in which a bereaved mum should behave .

Why does it matter so much to people what we do or how the buggery we do it ?

The op was asking her friends to go out to lunch with her for a couple of hours to mark the fact that her child was real . Are some of you serious when you say you wouldn't do that ? She should "move on" whatever the hell that means . Or she should grieve in private and not let others see that it still hurst .

Why ? My child died over 10 yrs ago , it still hurts ! I cope , I live a life , but it is a very different life to the one I imagined I would have . It is very different to the life I should have .

The op is carrying this awful grief around with her 24/7 and has asked her "friends" to eat food and chat for a couple of hours in the whole yr and they don't want to ?? They are the ones that should be ashamed and be apologising .

I just don't understand the need for hierarchies of grief, in a my loss is worse than yours way. Everyone can grieve in their own way, and should be respected, not told when to move on, and not told that their loss is any less important than anyone elses.

I do feel a bit sorry for OP's friend after reading all of this. Yes she was a dick but you have only heard one side of the story.

It must be pretty crap to have a miscarriage when one of your closest friends has lost a child, meaning you can never complain as "it's not quite the same as delivering a full-term stillborn". It is selfish of the friend but maybe she is jealous as she feels she didn't get the support she needed from her group of friends as the grief of another one "trumped" her needs.

Its a pretty rubbish situation for everyone.

But the friend had her miscarriage "a few yrs ago" so presumably before the op had Ethan so how would that have trumped her ? fwiw I don't really want to get into levels of grief and pain , I would be interested to hear if the other friends are as loath to get together as well .

Just seems a strange way for friends to behave to me .

"Kewcumber the "time for a change" lines you quote from another poster; I was utterly gobsmacked by them when I read them in their orginal post. WHAT do they mean? Are they as absurd and callous as I think they are?"

Jenai - so glad it wasn't just me that read that post with my mouth open (also thinking WTAF!)

I'm hoping that it was a (very) poorly thought through comment but does go to show what crap reactions bereaved people have to deal with even if they have kindly intentions.

I read it as there was a possibility that they were pregnant around the same time. OP would have been pregnant nearly four years ago. Friends had miscarriage "a few years ago".

Which does put the friend's reaction in a different perspective. If she might have had a child the same age for example. I'm not saying its ok, fair, nice or rational.

I had someone, a friend of a friend, ring me after my child's funeral and tell me she couldn't face the cemetary as she had a child the same age. Um, okay, thanks for that.

I hadn't even noticed who was there, too busy thinking, 'We are lowering our own child into the ground forever.'

Really, you do find out who your friends are and 'let it go' would be my cue to take a big step back, as would people who start to step back.

By contrast, Everlong's mates organise something and drag her along. I've done this for friends, too, who have lost their children and will continue to until they tell me to stop. 11 years on, she's still not stopping me! This mother says she can't even mention her son's name anymore without people shifting around uncomfortably or telling her to 'move on' and 'it was a long time ago'. He was her son int his life for 32 years, ffs! Even Kevin Wells, writing about his murdered daughter, Holly, has had people say stuff like that to him, 'It's been ten years.' Yep, and it's been two seconds too long I hung around someone who would say that to the father of a murdered child. Buh-bye.

But then, even before we lost our child, I couldn't for the life of me understand people who are 'uncomfortable' with death. Always seemed stupid of them, since, well, we are all going to die.

ethel, I think you're probably on to something, with the never being able to complain (or at least, giving OP's friend the benefit of the doubt, I hope you are).

If the friend had said that she was struggling with her own grief at the moment so didn't feel she could support her, it would be one thing. But she told Lira she needed to 'let it go'. Which means she thinks the OP should be over her grief. Which reads to me as if the friends think the OP is dragging it out/making a fuss/going on about it etc.

thats exactly why they are uncomfortable. They look at you and think "that could be me, losing my child" and its too much. Easier to ignore the whole thing and pretend such things never happen, because then they can't happen to you. Subconciously, but its a powerful and somewhat understandable fear.
The trick however is to overcome it and be better than that.

Indeed Look, the "let it go" comment is baffling.

OP, you have the right to grieve for your baby and no-one should tell you to 'let it go'. Perhaps if your friends feel uncomfortable about it you can mark the occasion with your DH/other family members who will share your grief instead.

I'm so sorry for your loss OP.

I think your friend was insensitive in how she spoke to you.

I've lost three now (well ERPC tomorrow for the third one, but the baby has already died )...one of them was a full on labour and delivery of our perfect baby boy, the other two were first trimester losses (7 weeks and 11 weeks this time)

My experience is that labour and delivery of a dead child is emotionally and physically much harder than a first trimester loss.

That isn't to say I don't love my other two, I do, and it was incredibly upsetting, but losing our son tore a hole in me that i'm not sure will ever mend.

I think your friend has no idea what that is like. I do, and i'm horribly sorry you have been through it.

But what if the friend had sucked it up at the time of the death thinking that she only had to be brave for her friend for a little bit and is now feeling a bit resentful as she has realised that the situaiton isn't going to change for her friend any time soon if ever? That is an arseholey way to behave, I agree.

But I do think that a friend who has been supportive for 3 years and never mentioned her own very painful loss before deserves a bit more slack tbh.

As I said, for all we know the friends' child's 3rd birthday could be around now and she may have had enough going through this painful ritual and THINKS she is being kind by suggesting her friend moves on.

The friend may have had the miscarriage followng years of IVF and now has to face the fact that she will never have children and hasn't discussed it with her friend as "it isn't quite the same as delivering a full-term stillborn". MAYBE this was a tactless way of dealing with that.

We don't know as we are only hearing one side of the story.

Hello again

i was unable to find this thread to post again looks like it has been moved for some reason. i assume it is because it upset people. i'm really sorry for that. i just wanted to know if i was being unreasonable.

thank you for all your lovely replies. i am only on the second page but will read them all just now. i can't begin to explain how much it means to hear you all talk about him so openly. it is all very hush hush in my family and friends. no one likes to discuss him or look at photos.

i realise now that perhaps marking his birthday so openly could be seen as odd but he was my son. i have a daughter and i celebrate her birthday every year so why not ethan's?

You are all so lovely. bless you for your kind words. i think from now on me and my daughter will mark the day alone so as not to make others uncomfortable. This saddens me though as i want to celebrate him and talk about him just as any parent would on their child's birthday.

Sorry i am rambling now. Thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts, prayers and stories. i am also sorry for all your losses xxxxx

Lira I completely understand. I am desperate at times to hear my son's name.

Lira, please do feel free to join us on the bereaved Mums thread. It's currently called, "You light the skies up above me, a light so bright you blind me" in honour of Poppy Barlow.

Lira - No One wanted your thread moved because it upset anyone. Not for a second. I think the people who asked for it to be moved asked for that out of the very best wishes for you to have the advice and support you need / want / would like.

I am sorry that my advice isn't better. But I wanted you to know that no one was offended by your post. I wanted to help, just as everyone else did. I just think there are people who can help more than I can.

x

Lira I am so sorry to hear about Ethan.

Have read all the replies as this is something that is close to my heart, my little 3 year old son died 6 months ago.

'What I am saying is: At some point, you say: I was blessed with this amazing person in my life. It wasn't long eough and I'm determined to make a legacy they personally didn't have time here on earth to achieve. '

Onceortwice, I just have to say, that I do disagree with this comment in the context of a child. My mum died 6 years ago, and as a legacy to her I trained to become a bereavement counsellor to help people through the kind of awful grief that I had experienced. I have a totally different response to it my little boy died. I think the grief for my child is off the scale - and I certainly cannot see that I was blessed with this person at the moment, all I see is that other people are blessed with their children, why am I not? My mum lived a full and happy life until she was 55, and had a lot of a life. My son didnt even get to have his lunch at preschool, it doesnt compare to me.

Within the context of whose grief is worse, I think it is always down to the person who is grieving, the loss that that person is experiencing is probably the worst loss of their lives, and they have nothing to compare it too. I must admit to have struggled when people have said to me that they know how I feel because they had an early miscarriage, I do find it hard to relate it to my situation, but that is their worst situation ever, and I have to acknowledge that.

I would too feel hurt as you do Lira if my friends didnt acknowledge his death. I don't think I would necessarily expect to do something with them, because at the moment, I cant even bare to see many people, but I would want to know that the support was there at least. As to be moving on after 3 years, again in the context of loosing a child there is no way that this is going to happen. To those with all their children, 3 years is a lifetime, but imagine for us, that is 3 years of missing, longing, crying, hurting. It doesn't get less over time, I am told you are just able to handle it better. To me, I can imagine I will feel as bad that he died 3 years later as I did the day after it happened, I will just be able to cope with it better. I think there is a perception that once an acceptable mourning period is over, we only think of these children on their special occasions, and that is so far from the truth, we think about them every day - but its hard to always express that, I already feel like a bore and its only 6 months, so birthdays are the perfect time to be able to express, and Lira should not feel bad about that.

Peoples reactions are hard to bare, it really is a case of not being able to comprehend until its happened I think. I am so sorry for you.

xxxxxxxxx

I've had 4 mcs and one, at 12 weeks hugely devastated me and I needed time off work and counselling but I still dont think it was anything like having a baby born sleeping and i think your 'friend' is hugely rude and clearly has little empathy.
For me that would be the end of any friendship between us. I have friends who lost term babies and I make sure I contact them on the baby's bday and light a candle for them etc. I don't even do that for my own mc'd babies even though I still carry the pain and loss with me. To me they simply aren't comparable losses.