8week miscarriage isn't quite the same as delivering a full-term stillborn?

[Lira]

I'm really sorry for the upsetting nature of this post but i am heartbroken. Tomorrow is the third anniversary/birthday of my stillborn son who was born full term. I have phoned round my friends to ask if they are free to mark the occassion like we do every year. We go for lunch or something. We talk about him.

My friends have been quite evasive about it this year and finally one called this morning saying she thinks i should let it go. I can't keep letting this haunt me forever. She had a miscarriage at eight weeks a few years ago and i don't see her organising anniversary lunches etc. Her words.

I'm so sorry if this sounds cruel, but to me - yes, they are two horrible situations but not quite the same. Delivering a full term baby, and holding him, getting a photo of him etc is not on the same level as a eight week miscarriage. Just as i think someone losing a child - for example a baby to cot death - is again far worse than delivering a still born.

I understand that everyone has different emotional boundaries. So for some people, a miscarriage at 4 weeks could feel the same as someone losing a child to cot death.

Basically, i jusst feel quite embarrassed now and isolated. I want to celebrate Ethan's life no matter how short it was. But i've been made to feel it's insignificant. Am i being unreasonable thinking both of our children's deaths are terrible, but not quite on the same level?

I am very sorry for the losses of everyone on this thread.

Over the years on Mumsnet I have been given glimpses of the pain caused by a child's death. MNers who have shared their stories have allowed me to reflect on how I could support my friends and family if they should find themselves in similar situations.

I think it is a subject which shouldn't be taboo and shouldn't be hidden away.

I think a lot of people are afraid of causing more grief to someone who has lost a child, they don't know what to say and so don't say anything.

I remember once reading a post which said "people don't say anything because they're afraid of reminding me. But they won't remind me because I never forget. And I'd prefer to know that other people don't forget either"

(not exact words, can't remember them but the idea stayed with me).

I'm sorry if my wording has caused anyone any offence, I've tried my best not to.

Gosh, whilst loss is indeed a very subjective thing I can't believe someone - especially a friend - could say such a thing. The two things are incomparable. I m/c at 10 weeks, it was a very bleak time but goodness me I cannot begin to even imagine what it is like to lose a child. Any true friend would be by your side however you chose to acknowledge your son and the anniversary. I'm just so sorry that such a difficult time of year has been compounded my your friend's insensitivity.

As you admit you have no idea how it feels, why dictate what is suitable for others onceortwice? Wouldn't it be better to say "Well I have no idea how it feels so whatever you think helps you is the right thing," instead of making a judgement on how you think people should be feeling/behaving from your privileged position of never having experienced it?

You would find it "much more fitting" if you were asked to do something positive. Fair enough, but that's not relevant is it? Surely all that matters is how the grieving person feels?

Beautiful post bartiimus.

What's negative about celebrating his birthday?

Well, that depends Cailin .... Actually, no, it wouldn't. If a friend wanted to have lunch with me for whatever reason, and I was free, then yes, I would go.

But, I would find it quite uncomfortable if all they did was relive a situation which occurred 3 years ago. Maybe that makes me a shallow person. Maybe it makes me an insecure one. I don't know. ANd I do have a lot of sympathy with the OP's title (as in, is one worse than the other)

I phoned a friend a few months ago, to tell her my DS had autism. She said 'well, best you know. My cat is very ill' and then proceeded to talk and talk and talk about her fucking cat.

I'm just trying to offer a perspective. It may not be a good one.

CallinDana you have written exactly what I want to say, but far more eloquently. OP, as far as I can see, has not asked for other ideas to help her celebrate her son's life. She has asked if she is being unreasonable. In my view she is not.

onceortwice.

Its not reliving a situation though is it?

Its marking his birthday.

Do you call celebrating your live childs birthday every year 'reliving' their birth?

Or are you just celebrating it?

Maybe this thread will make people stop and think.

It doesn't matter if it was 50 years ago or today, it doesn't matter if they were an unborn baby or a strapping man or woman.

A child that dies is always important. Always loved, always talked about and always wanted back with us.

It doesn't go away.

Those of you who haven't lost a child please just think about this.

many people say they will ''never forget'' or they will be there for you, but without you reminding them it would be another day in the week and not marked on the calendar

that;s my point, thelobsterswife , her friend is not celebrating it as a birthday is she?, she doesn't want to do it anymore.
That's why i said people not friends.

Ok, onceortwice, it would make you feel uncomfortable, that's fine, that's not a negative reflection on you. Your discomfort wouldn't be a patch on how your grieving friend feels though, don't you agree? And I think most genuine friends would be happy to put up with a bit of discomfort if they thought it could help someone they care about through horrendous pain just a little tiny bit. Being a true friend means sometimes doing things you don't necessarily want to do (within reason of course) in order to help your friend.

You admit yourself you know how it feels. You wanted your friend to show concern about something that is a very big deal to you - your DS's diagnosis. But your friend didn't bother, she just banged on about her cat and that pissed you off. So you know what it's like for people not to consider your feelings. What if you complained about your friend and someone else said "Well, she has a point I mean it would be ok if you asked her to campaign for autism but you were just complaining, it must have made her feel uncomfortable." It doesn't take a huge leap from that to imagine what it would be like if friends openly refused to support you on the death of a child.

I'm not saying your perspective is a bad one, I'm just saying that it is worth having a think about how your attitudes could really really hurt someone who is already going through something unimaginably hard.

thinking of you op
xxx

I am so very sorry for the loss of your baby son.

I think if there is not a good reason that you don't know about for your friends to evade the occasion (and I cannot really think of one - even if one of them had suffered a late mc as suggested, surely the others could go?) then they are being hugely insensitive. At the best they genuinely think they are trying to help you re-build your life. You do not 'get over' bereavements of any sort. I don't think they ever become OK, do they? - you just get closer to accepting them. I think your friends should always be there for you to give you what you need to live with your loss. Why can't they just respect what you want to do, and give you that time freely without judgement? Can they really not bring themselves to do that small thing? How dare they set a time limit for you to stop celebrating his life? Sorry, I am a bit angry on your behalf.

My friend's wife died suddenly 3 years ago. I still talk to him about her and ask him how he feels about her, how he is doing, when it's their wedding anniversary/her birthday I ask him what he's doing. Because she will always be part of their lives. I would be reconsidering these friendships in your situation.

I think a lot of people just dont listen and dont take time to reflect on anybody's position than their own.

Maybe your friend just had a knee jerk reaction, felt put on the spot, as you wanting to celebrate Ethan, meant she was reminded of her loss, and her loss was one that could not be expressed. As you yourself said hers was only a miscarriage, she may have felt that you had little sympathy for her own loss.

She would not have know the depth of yours, but you cant be competitive.

What do you want to do with your friend going forward? Talk to her about how you feel? Ask her how she feels? Neither of you should feel "shut up" and isolated.

Amber but at some point, you don't 'relive' the birth anymore, do you? You celebrate the child, where they are now.

GOd, I used to hate it when my mum said 'ohh... I was PUSHING now' GOd, I hated that.

I'm not saying don't remember, but that the remembrance has to be a bit appropriate too.

I tihnk I will leave this now. It is no longer AIBU, so I am not at all sure I should be expressing opinions like this.

I hope I haven't upset anyone. I just was putting a PoV, mine. x

Well said, Cailin!

Lira I am so sorry for your loss, and I am sorry your friends aren't celebrating Ethan's birthday with you. I think they are being unreasonable. FFS you NEVER have to 'let go' - you lost Ethan and you will always live with that sad loss.

I am sorry for all the people on this thread who've also lost children, you have my sympathy, my empathy and my respect.

Sorry Lola. I misunderstood your point. Getting too emotional reading this thread, thinking about what my friend has been going through, so didn't read it properly.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is an uncommon response over time for friends or even family. My first daughter was stillborn and I too experienced people comparing my loss to their miscarriage and telling me I needed to 'move on' within a few weeks of her birth.

People genuinely don't realise how distressing it is. I think what people are saying is that THEY need to move on - they still feel sad but for them it is in the past and they want to think about happier things. Your son's death isn't for you - it's with you all the time.

My dd was stillborn nearly 7 years ago and we'll mark her birthday just within our immediate family as we have for the past 5 years. Friends were supportive for the first year anniversary, then there was definitely a change.

I hope that your son's birthday passes peacefully.

When you lose a child, you do move on and let go and sometimes that means letting go of people who feel there's a time bar and constraints on how your child is and should be remembered. You find out who your real friends are, tbh.

Amber but at some point, you don't 'relive' the birth anymore, do you? You celebrate the child, where they are now

Yes and very lucky you are to be able to do that each year watching your child grow.

It is not wrong or inappropriate to celebrate a dead childs birthday.

That child existed.

OP, I am so sorry for the loss of little Ethan. I agree with others to say that there is no time limit on grief. But it seems to me that what your friends are trying to do is worse, than just encouraging you not to grieve. They seem to want you to forget and pretend it never happened. And they can go on living in their little bubble where child mortality doesn't exist. It sounds to me like they're not true friends. You have to live with your loss every day - they should be able to face the reality of this loss for just one lunch time a year. It's not a huge ask of true friends. And I think it was particularly insensitive of them to dump this on you the day before, if previously they have been willing to be there for you.
I have been fortunate not to have suffered a pregnancy loss. But I did have a scare with one of my DC at about 9 weeks and before I knew that it would be ok I heard that a friend had been through a still birth. And I knew then that even if I did loose my baby, that my loss would be nothing compared to theirs.
You have nothing to be embarrassed about. Why should you be embarrassed about remembering your son? I hope you will continue to mark your son's life in whatever way seems right to you. But sadly I think you do need to find some better friends to share this special day with. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. x

Thats ok lobster , i think this is a difficult thread for anyone with any heart to read at all.

cailin that post was spot on Wed 12-Sep-12 13:10:41

Don't you mark your children's birthdays onceortwice?